|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
I just got the following note back from my wife in response to my email on what my priorities are...
She said: "Your priority is whatever is happening at the time. You are just a to do list. Whatever there is to do like with xxxx the other night that is what you do without asking me or talking to me or considering my feelings."
The "xxxx" is our daughter. She had called me earlier in the day and wanted to talk to me and I called her and ended up talking to her for about 2 hours. My wife went to bed while we were on the phone. This is what she is referring to. This is good, Jim. Really good. Good job emailing her. The fact that she gave you some specific examples, to help you out,also confirms that your wife DOES have goodwill toward you and would likely fall back in love with you, if you were to learn to take her feelings into account ABOVE and BEFORE, anyone or anything else. You are laying the framework for this by contacting her several times a day. How would you know her feelings about anything if you are not contacting her often? The next habit you are forming, is to point blank ask her to clarify her feelings for you, instead of assuming. The good news, is that she did respond to your email, so let's see if you can keep this going. The nice thing about email, is that your brain won't jam up under the pressure of her emotional outbursts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Hi DQ, I am being consistent. I just got off of the phone with my wife. We had a very lengthy conversation. We are on the same cycle that we've been on for years. Hey Jim, I completely disagree with that statement in boldface. You are NOT on the same cycle anymore, because now that you are intentionally changing, the cycle has been interrupted. She is noticing your good efforts, and then when you do something that looks like past cycles, she is scared to death. But if you keep asking what it was that upset her, and addressing that complaint, then over time, she will gain hope.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842 |
"Notice Jim made progress over the weekend but On Monday he was back at square one." So I may have missed this point, Apples. Are you saying that she was happy as long as he is home with het and unhappy when he goes to his job? So you notice the correlation and think that is the root of her frustration? Is that what you were trying to say? It does seem to be a factor. ETA: she is the only one who can tell us for sure.
Last edited by apples123; 03/10/16 04:32 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
I just got the following note back from my wife in response to my email on what my priorities are...
She said: "Your priority is whatever is happening at the time. You are just a to do list. Whatever there is to do like with xxxx the other night that is what you do without asking me or talking to me or considering my feelings."
The "xxxx" is our daughter. She had called me earlier in the day and wanted to talk to me and I called her and ended up talking to her for about 2 hours. My wife went to bed while we were on the phone. This is what she is referring to. Please email your wife and thank her for sharing those examples with you. Tell her that you are going to figure out a plan to avoid distractions, and that you would appreciate any ideas she has. Together you will come up with a solution to this. After thanking her, write these two things on your notebook checklist, and then start a whole page for this problem. 1. Problem with the POJA #1: I consult my own task list first, instead of my wife. 2. Problem with the POJA #2: I pay attention to other family members or activities instead of my wife. (2 hour phone call with daughter) After those things are done, let me know.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Food for Thought:
You go throughout your day, doing things that imagine your wife would care nothing about. And you don't see anything wrong with the things you are doing. But you wife wants to be brought into everything Before you decide to do it, even if it is something that you think she would fully support. If you tend to get distracted by your kids, then that becomes a problem. If you tend to do things impulsively, then that is also a problem.
What Dr. Harley usually recommends in this situation is for you to do absolutely nothing, without first asking your wife how she feels about you doing it. When she tells you that you don't have to ask about a certain thing because it will always be okay, then you put it on a list. Except for the items on the list, you ALWAYS ASK. Then over time, you are in the habit of asking, and the list of items you don't need to ask about grows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
I also think that this would be a good time to call into the radio show. Maybe take these 2 complaints from your wife, and let her listen to Dr. Harley give his suggestions to you. I highly doubt that your wife would be frustrated with his advice, which would be in support of YOU changing your behavior. Also, they might be able to send a free book like "He Wins, She Wins" or Lovebusters.
You are correct, that you are in a difficult position. You have two potential problems: upsetting her by not getting her EA to get help from Dr. Harley and the forum, and an outcome where she never gets on board and never changes her bad habits.
It takes two, and all parts of the program are necessary to build a great marriage.
Last edited by DidntQuit; 03/10/16 06:00 PM. Reason: sorry...clarified
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Jim, I don't see why, even if you don't go on the show, you couldn't at least EMAIL the show, and use the response as a way to introduce the conversation again with your wife.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195 |
Please email your wife and thank her for sharing those examples with you. Tell her that you are going to figure out a plan to avoid distractions, and that you would appreciate any ideas she has. Together you will come up with a solution to this.
After thanking her, write these two things on your notebook checklist, and then start a whole page for this problem.
1. Problem with the POJA #1: I consult my own task list first, instead of my wife.
2. Problem with the POJA #2: I pay attention to other family members or activities instead of my wife. (2 hour phone call with daughter)
After those things are done, let me know. Okay, I emailed my wife and thanked her for bringing up those 2 items. I told her that I would come up with a plan to avoid distraction and consult her before I just take action on something. I also asked for her input for ideas so that we could decide together what would work. I have also written these things in my notebooks.
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195 |
DQ, I'm just providing you with an update on how things went tonight. We shopped for groceries together tonight and when we got home and were putting things away, I started a conversation related to my priorities. One thing lead to another and we ended up talking about the following items:
1) While I'm at work, I feel pressured to get off of the phone while my wife wants to keep my on the phone because then she has a captive audience. She says that she only feels the need to talk longer during the day when I'm at work because we don't talk at night. This way, she can get my undivided attention.
2) We talked about my talking to our daughter the other night for so long. She said that she was bothered because I just came home, decided that I should call our daughter and then I did it and was on the phone for hours. This bothered her because I never consulted her before I just called; I never asked her if she thought that it would be okay to give our daughter a call, I just went off and did it on my own like I do everything.
I started to attempt to get her to help me figure out how to change this behavior and thats when she got frustrated. She said "...I am done with you" and "...I just don't care anymore".
The rest of the evening was very chilly. Very little talking and then she went to bed.
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Please email your wife and thank her for sharing those examples with you. Tell her that you are going to figure out a plan to avoid distractions, and that you would appreciate any ideas she has. Together you will come up with a solution to this.
After thanking her, write these two things on your notebook checklist, and then start a whole page for this problem.
1. Problem with the POJA #1: I consult my own task list first, instead of my wife.
2. Problem with the POJA #2: I pay attention to other family members or activities instead of my wife. (2 hour phone call with daughter)
After those things are done, let me know. Okay, I emailed my wife and thanked her for bringing up those 2 items. I told her that I would come up with a plan to avoid distraction and consult her before I just take action on something. I also asked for her input for ideas so that we could decide together what would work. I have also written these things in my notebooks. Good follow through. What about using these issues to email Dr. Harley? I'm telling you, it's the perfect topic to introduce her.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
She said "...I am done with you" and "...I just don't care anymore." Well, that's better than telling you to pack your bags... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Your wife just told you that she has a high emotional need for undivided attention and intimate conversation. Imagine that!
She probably needs conversation at lunch AND in the evenings. Think about it...the kids are gone, with their own lives, and you're all she's got. You should be the person to meet that need regardless.
Have you called your wife every day on your lunch hour according to the plan? Or have you been skipping?
Last edited by DidntQuit; 03/11/16 12:49 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
How is it that you've gone grocery shopping with her but not taken her out to dinner? Time to start dating your wife.  Pick dates that allow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195 |
Your wife just told you that she has a high emotional need for undivided attention and intimate conversation. Imagine that!
She probably needs conversation at lunch AND in the evenings. Think about it...the kids are gone, with their own lives, and you're all she's got. You should be the person to meet that need regardless.
Have you called your wife every day on your lunch hour according to the plan? Or have you been skipping? I haven't missed a day since I started doing this. I also take my wife out to dinner quite often. Now we really are pretty much tied at the hip. Our conversations are pretty weak though I have put in a huge effort to learn about football which she loves. I talk to her about that for fun and that is a lot of fun. She is the huge fan and I just like it but am not over the moon about it so I really did put effort into something that she likes so that we could have something fun to talk about.
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3 |
***EDIT***
Last edited by Ariel; 03/11/16 11:23 AM. Reason: Non MB advice. Please read the TOS before posting again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
**EDIT***
Shirndon, your advice sounds a lot like Mr.Nice Guy's earlier in the thread on Feb. 11th. Please read the following:
[Quote=Mr.NiceGuy's Advice Addressed by SugarCane]
SugarCane: Jim, I want to warn you against the "be cool and aloof" philosophy embedded in this advice.
Mr. Nice Guy:
"If you were in a bad place with your hubby... And fighting or what have you... Should your hubby just stand there and wait for you to not be mad at him? Or should he go occupy himself until you cool off? That's all I'm saying... If she wants him to leave her alone because she's not in a good space in her head with him.. What good will it do to sit there and follow her around like a lost puppy hoping for his cookie? That's no way to be married... When she needs space and indicates as such.. Its best to go find a way to fill the time until she's ready to talk again by doing something awesome rather than sulk and wait and hope she will be nice to him. Obviously when she's feeling negative towards him its not a good time to talk...aknowledge she's upset.. Appologize once..then its Best to go be awesome for a bit then come back to it.
Whatever you do.... Don't whine (or what she precieves as) Don't mope... Don't sulk... Don't appologize for something more than once.. Bring positive energy with you when your near her and meet her needs when you can... And if you can't or she won't let you then just be near by and do something manly or awesome... "
Sugarcane:
This is not Marriage Builders advice, and it is not how Dr Harley advises a man to try and bring his wife out of withdrawal. Since you have spoken to Dr Harley more than once, and since you listen to the radio show, and have chosen to post here again, I take it you are here for the advice that Dr Harley gives?
Well, here is what he says about dealing with a wife's complaints, before they descend into nagging, an d once they have already reached that point. Note that he does not tell you that her reactions to your love busters "are on her", or that you should apologise only once and then, if she is still upset, leave her to sulk - as if she is one of your children, and not an equal partner, with a legitimate complaint:
"As a husband, you should address every complaint your wife makes with patience and kindness. You should enter into a discussion with her regarding every issue she raises, and do it without any disrespect or anger on your part. If you think that she has so many issues that you feel overwhelmed by them, organize them together and set priorities. Focus on the three that top her list, and when they are resolved, work your way through it." How to Deal with a Quarrelsome and Nagging Wife"
Going off to "be awesome" by working on your pecs while your wife "cools down", when she is upset at having discovered you in yet another lie, is a way to push her into withdrawal and keep her there - and you've already done that.
Time to use Marriage Builders. Shirdon...Jim has spent 30 years not listening long to or addressing his wife's complaints. Jim is not groveling in those moments. He is shellshocked. I agree that he needs to be patient and strong in those moments, and that his wife needs to stop lovebusting him. However, what I am trying to help him do is to take the conversations about problems to email format to avoid this type of situation altogether, while still proactively addressing her concerns. This is no time for Jim to be impatient or pompous. As they move forward, they can address her lovebusters in a proactive and not reactive way.
Last edited by Ariel; 03/11/16 12:07 PM. Reason: Removing quote
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Your wife just told you that she has a high emotional need for undivided attention and intimate conversation. Imagine that!
She probably needs conversation at lunch AND in the evenings. Think about it...the kids are gone, with their own lives, and you're all she's got. You should be the person to meet that need regardless.
Have you called your wife every day on your lunch hour according to the plan? Or have you been skipping? I haven't missed a day since I started doing this. I also take my wife out to dinner quite often. Now we really are pretty much tied at the hip. Our conversations are pretty weak though I have put in a huge effort to learn about football which she loves. I talk to her about that for fun and that is a lot of fun. She is the huge fan and I just like it but am not over the moon about it so I really did put effort into something that she likes so that we could have something fun to talk about. I'm so glad that you were consistent with the lunch time phone calls, and with studying up on her hobby for the sake of conversation. Excellent. ETA: Is she calling you at other times of the day? Or is she wanting to talk longer at lunch than you have planned for?
Last edited by DidntQuit; 03/11/16 12:27 PM. Reason: Added questions
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Jim, my feeling is that in your worry about upsetting your wife by Not talking about problems, you are bringing them up at a time when you should be romanticizing. And then, something you are doing in those discussions is super annoying. Please address the problems systematically through email. Leave conversation time for positivity. If you absolutely have to, then reserve lunch time to discuss problems, and evenings for UA. (This is what worked for us. Talk about kid problems, car repairs etc during our lunch phone chat and then do UA at night in the form of dates. I still would prefer email for addressing complaints because you are not tuned in to whatever it is that annoys her and sends her running off alone instead of what happened below: As far as the 4 main emotional needs are concerned, I believe that I've just experienced the affection and conversation with my wife over the last 2 days. I really put some effort into talking with her and being affectionate yesterday. I didn't sleep on the couch last night at her request. Thats the farthest that we've moved in a positive direction since last November.
It seems to me that the 15 hours of UA puts both of us into an intensive and focused time together during which we can really focus on the intimate conversation without interruption. It seems to me that intimate conversation is certainly one of the most important emotional needs for my wife. Focusing on that alone seems to be the "gateway" to meeting some of the other emotional needs which would just naturally flow out of the intimate conversation.
We are planning to take a break for a few days and go away somewhere to be together. As far as 15 hours of UA this week, I need to think of ways to do that. We spend an awful lot of time together at home each night but like you say, its not the same as getting away from home.
I need to think of some ideas for getting out of the house together...DJ What happened? All I hear about is grocery shopping and trips necessitated by aging family or task lists.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 195 |
ETA: Is she calling you at other times of the day? Or is she wanting to talk longer at lunch than you have planned for? My wife rarely calls me now during the day. She gave up on that about 6 months ago. I always call her. I think that she got sick of "chasing" me to try to get my attention.
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
186
guests, and
56
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,622
Posts2,323,477
Members71,918
| |
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|
