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If I tell him to stop going off and doing his own thing, he views it that I'm trying to control him. This may be how he truly feels or it may be a tactic that gets you to give in. You have to let him know that his actions hurt you, create stress for you, make life miserable for you. How well do you do that? Do you tell him he can't go out alone (controlling) or do you tell him how his IB makes you feel (inviting him to see your pain)? Read what was just posted about the POJA. You cannot go through life with a partner that is willing to gain at your expense. That is no way to live your life. You are not controlling him, you are protecting yourself from the continuing harmful things he does to you. Is he totally unwilling to POJA or does he simply not know how to negotiate? If he won't negotiate with you Win/Win(s) then you have a choice to make. If he doesn't know how I'd suggest you two get a coach to learn how. yes he truely feels that way. I believe he has zero ability to negotiate. He has called me a lawyer before. Of course, who doesn't want their way? He gives up and lets me have mine CONSTANTLY. What if some of his ways don't create stress in me? Or am I just used to it? Or maybe I gave up. I have said that and done that about his bowling and it has not changed anything. He was at bowling when I went to the hospital to get induced. THAT has been stuck in my mind for over 11 years. Even a few weeks ago my son had a band concert and he left the concert early to go to bowling. That hurt. Even the day after when it was discussed with my son and him, my son was sitting there crying about how he left and my husband had zero response. No empathy at all. My heart was crushed just watching my son cry about this. AND my son and him are VERY close. He did promise to never miss anything again. He never made it up to him, never hugged him, nothing. That really shook me and my son.
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He also texted me in all caps..
"You told my bosses daughter in law are you kidding me? I'm trying to keep a level head right now." And you seriously just took that? BWs who just roll over and accept crumbs from a disgruntled WH don't make it. ok what do I do? I want to make it.
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If you accept these crumbs from him, your marriage will limp along as a crippled version of what it was before his affair. And he will be unfaithful again, there is no doubt about it.
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If you accept these crumbs from him, your marriage will limp along as a crippled version of what it was before his affair. And he will be unfaithful again, there is no doubt about it. It was pretty [censored] before and has been. yes I have thought too, this will happen AGAIN. Maybe not soon but it will. yep I get it.
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He also texted me in all caps..
"You told my bosses daughter in law are you kidding me? I'm trying to keep a level head right now." And you seriously just took that? BWs who just roll over and accept crumbs from a disgruntled WH don't make it. ok what do I do? I want to make it. You show him that you won't accept a marriage where he does things at your expense anymore. How do you show him? Not by shouting, lists and fighting. By separating. That is your only hope. You can't MAKE him get on board and give up his marriage wrecking behavior. You realize this, right?
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He also texted me in all caps..
"You told my bosses daughter in law are you kidding me? I'm trying to keep a level head right now." And you seriously just took that? BWs who just roll over and accept crumbs from a disgruntled WH don't make it. ok what do I do? I want to make it. You set the bar high. You separate and go to Plan B until he shows remorse and willingly (not begrudgingly) follows the program.
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POJA he hasn't done in full, he left to go bowling yesterday without even telling me(or discussing with me)
he actually agreed to 30 days of this and "reevlauate" then.
he has agreed to never talk to the 2 woman again, he hasn't and he blocked all communication from them.
I have looked at his phone, texts, email, fb. His group me chat with his male friends. I have access to all.
Account for time 24/7. he just told me last night if that is going to be forever he's not going to do it. he agreed and then failed to tell me of two places he went yesterday. he initially agreed and then told me after the near future he wants to reevaluate this too.
Account for $. I have access to all bank accounts/credit cards.
Spend as much time together as possible, we have. we were both off work Thurs-Sunday and have spent all of our time together. (I sent this on Thursday evening after bowling, so he did go bowling)
His response to this was.. I am open to this. However, I will not go out of my way to wake you up at 4am so we can spend time together. There are limits to what I'm willing to do here. I we need to discuss this then we can." In him meaning that he needs less sleep than I do. Typically he will only sleep 6 hours and I need more. So at times he'll be awake for 2 hours more than I am.
no overnight separation, he agreed. But he said this can't be permanent. He said that if I leave him then he still needs a job, so in a sense putting that above me?
no friendships with women, he agreed
no bars, he agreed.
total honestly. I doubt this has happened but I have zero way to prove anything and I'm not even sure if he has lied about anything or with held the truth on anything.
ok I take it back, he didn't tell me about going to the grocery store, he didn't tell me about going bowling,
and acutally on the last three his reponse was "Fine"
Then he listed his requirements...
MY REQUIREMENTS!
1. You will need to make time for me when I request it.
2. You will NEVER put our business out to the masses again. There is no wiggle room on this. It is not driven by what I do.
3. Weekly updates on your feelings as they pertain to my honesty and openness. I need you to tell me if you feel I'm being honest weekly and subjects, if any, that you feel it's lacking.
4. I'm open to hearing your feelings, thoughts, and concerns about the 123 and XYZ(omiting names) issue through April 8th. (2 weeks) After that I am DONE listening to it. I will not have this continuously thrown in my face. We have to move on.
yes he did just call what he did an "issue"
I'm scared he will never get serious. "crying" Of course he won't get serious. YOU are not serious. When you get serious, I predict he will too. I don't understand the point of writing out these extraordinary precautions when you know he is not serious about recovery. Agreeing to a few EPS when he is not serious about recovery is a waste of your time. He is wasting your time.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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A bit off topic. I have a sister who is 3 years younger than I am, she has been supportive of me over the past few years. She moved out of state 5.5 years ago for 3 years and came back. To make a very long story short, her husband and her got divorced, it was terribly messy. I found out she had an affair with a co-worker. I don't even remember how I found out, I'm assuming she told me.
Fast forward to last night, we are on the phone I'm telling her how frustrated I am and she says out of the blue that she's sad because she can't be with the man she wants to be with. I ask her why, she says he's married. I'm like, WTF?! She then tells me that she slept with him but its over, and laughed. She admitted he works with her. I said I was hanging up and did. Yep, that's my support system. I'm hurting even more now and all over again. just WOW People never cease to amaze me, what the hell kind of world do we live in?!
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We live in a world of two parallel cultures living side by side. One culture tends to have bad marriages; one culture tends to have good marriages.
60+% of marriages experience infidelity.
40% of marriages end in divorce.
20% of marriages end in permanent lifelong separation.
20% of marriages stay married but are unhappy.
Only 20% of marriages stay together for life and are happy.
Most people don't know how to have a good marriage. Most people don't know how to avoid infidelity. Most of us live in bad marriage culture.
Join good marriage culture!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Of course he won't get serious. YOU are not serious. When you get serious, I predict he will too. I don't understand the point of writing out these extraordinary precautions when you know he is not serious about recovery. Agreeing to a few EPS when he is not serious about recovery is a waste of your time. He is wasting your time. If you will do the stuff this program recommends, you will join good marriage culture. Hopefully your husband will join you, but maybe not. Of course, he never will if you do not do the things that people do in good marriage culture. There's no point to staying with him in bad marriage culture; only misery. People in good marriage culture expose affairs. They do not tolerate demands, disrespect, or angry outbursts in marriage, let alone addictions, infidelity, secret second lives... they don't tolerate it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Newt,
Did you email the radio show? I believe Joyce and Dr Harley addressed your email on the show yesterday. Did you listen to it?
Did you hear the piece on how Dr Harley feels in all situations of infidelity that he'd expect the man to woe back the woman. It's sort of the prototypical way relationships in our culture work.
You must realize that your H isn't going to do that, not the way he's acting right now. You're going to have to get serious if you expect this R to get any better. You're going to have to quit sweeping the hurtful things under the rug.
The crap your H pulled this week (passive aggressive crap if you ask me) should be enough to snap you into action. Right now you're H doesn't have empathy for you and continues to cast blame on you for his choices.
I'd say enough is enough. Either you two get serious and get yourselves a coach so someone can "clue" him in and teach you tools so you can protect yourself OR you simply get away from him.
Last edited by MrAlias; 03/30/16 07:18 AM.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
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"I'd say enough is enough. Either you two get serious and get yourselves a coach so someone can "clue" him in and teach you tools so you can protect yourself OR you simply get away from him."
Ok, but a "coach" cannot help someone who is not serious. A coach can guide him in this program. He is not willing. I would ask that we not give her more excuses to avoid taking tough steps.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"I'd say enough is enough. Either you two get serious and get yourselves a coach so someone can "clue" him in and teach you tools so you can protect yourself OR you simply get away from him."
Ok, but a "coach" cannot help someone who is not serious. A coach can guide him in this program. He is not willing. I would ask that we not give her more excuses to avoid taking tough steps. Agree. Getting a WH to agree to counseling when they have already agreed to basic marriage saving measures (such as implementing EP and giving up IB) who then turns around and blatantly does whatever the hell he wants, is just kicking the can down the road. If she doesn't show her WH that she's serious, coaching is worthless and pointless.
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I just listened to the radio show and you told Dr Harley you didn't believe what your husband had an affair because they were not "sexual." So the basic issue is that YOU don't take this seriously.
Dr Harley told you they WERE affairs. He also mentioned he does not believe your husband did not have sex with the woman he spent the night with. And you know he lied on the polygraph test when he said he had never had sex with another woman since you were married. You already knew he had sex with another woman when he had an affair 10 yrs ago and moved out for months.
Dr Harley also pointed out that he was having an affair when he told you 9 months ago he wanted a divorce.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I just listened to the radio show and you told Dr Harley you didn't believe what your husband had an affair because they were not "sexual." So the basic issue is that YOU don't take this seriously.
Dr Harley told you they WERE affairs. He also mentioned he does not believe your husband did not have sex with the woman he spent the night with. And you know he lied on the polygraph test when he said he had never had sex with another woman since you were married. You already knew he had sex with another woman when he had an affair 10 yrs ago and moved out for months.
Dr Harley also pointed out that he was having an affair when he told you 9 months ago he wanted a divorce. ok Of course I am glad that everyone here and Dr Harley has said that it was an affair. Everyone my husband has talked to is disagreeing. So you see what I am up against. I do NOT KNOW my husband had sex with another woman since we have been married. Were you not the one who suggested a polygraph? What was the point of that if he denies it, poly says he is telling the truth and no one believes him?? Dr Harley specifically stated that I should not have said "affair" in the exposure but stated the facts and just explained what he did. Of course I said affair and stated the facts. I did talk to the OW, today. She told me that he said he was in the middle of a divorce. She says he started everything, (remember she is a waitress at a bar) She said he had no ring on. (he admitted this) She said they were at the bar twice after that, (to which he admitted) Then I asked if they went anywhere else. That is when she started going on and on about how she's uncomfortable, about how I slandered her name, that I thought it was her fault and said that she was then done with the conversation. Again, is this wrong.. YES. Proves he had sex with her? NO. and no I have no proof or do I know if he had sex with the woman from 10 years ago. He said he was in love with her though, so it doesn't matter to me if he had sex with her or not. Its still wrong and terrible. Dr Harley also pointed out that he was having an affair when he told you 9 months ago he wanted a divorce. I have listened to the radio show like 5 times and recorded it, that is not in there at all. This IS serious to me. Also from what I have read, it says for give 3 weeks for plan A. Its been 1 week.
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I just listened to the radio show and you told Dr Harley you didn't believe what your husband had an affair because they were not "sexual." So the basic issue is that YOU don't take this seriously.
Dr Harley told you they WERE affairs. He also mentioned he does not believe your husband did not have sex with the woman he spent the night with. And you know he lied on the polygraph test when he said he had never had sex with another woman since you were married. You already knew he had sex with another woman when he had an affair 10 yrs ago and moved out for months.
Dr Harley also pointed out that he was having an affair when he told you 9 months ago he wanted a divorce. ok Of course I am glad that everyone here and Dr Harley has said that it was an affair. Everyone my husband has talked to is disagreeing. So you see what I am up against. Here's how to handle that: Don't go up against it. Don't try to persuade your husband that Dr. Harley is right and people he is talking to are wrong. Don't argue it with him or debate it with him. Don't even discuss it with him. Don't bother listening to anyone he talks to. Simply tell your husband that you are unwilling to tolerate his behavior and that if he wants to keep you, he will need to start living this way. Then start preparing your Plan B. Then go into Plan B. If you do those things, you will be taking your first steps to join good marriage culture. Maybe he will follow you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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She says he started everything Who cares? Who gives a flying flip about these details? He starts living the good marriage culture way, or you leave him. It's that simple. Or you choose to continue to live in bad marriage culture land the rest of your life, also known as hell on earth, in which case we can't help you. Stop running on about irrelevant details and he said she said and start doing the program.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Also from what I have read, it says for give 3 weeks for plan A. Its been 1 week. I looked under your username and it says you've been here since March 17. That's two weeks. Also, you should start your Plan B preparations at the beginning of Plan A, immediately. Do you have that going, yet? But before you begin plan A, prepare for plan B, which is to completely separate from your husband. It's too late to start your Plan B preparations before Plan A, so you'll have to do the best you can. Get ready. Are you following this part of the program?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Also from what I have read, it says for give 3 weeks for plan A. Its been 1 week. You need to be preparing for your Plan B NOW. Don't wait 3 weeks and THEN prepare. And the actual figure is UP TO 3 weeks. It doesn't have to be 3 weeks. A 5 minute Plan A is long enough in a lot of cases. All you need to do is express your willingness to meet his emotional needs, avoid lovebusters, and build a great, integrated marriage together. You've already done that. The way your husband is abusing you, you need to go to Plan B sooner rather than later. You are going to be a basket case very soon.
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