If you do the Marriage Builders plan (which for you means Plan B), either he will follow you and you will end up happy and healthy, or else he will not follow you and you will end up happy and healthy without him.

If you do not do the Marriage Builders plan, he will never follow you; both of you will stay in bad marriage culture and be miserable and sick for the rest of your life.

As it is now, you are not doing the program, so do not expect good things to happen, okay? Don't fool yourself that this is going to come out all right without doing the program. Dr. Harley recommends what he does because after 50 years of this he knows what works and what doesn't.

No, how can you make a plan with him? He is nuts. If you could make plans with him you wouldn't be in this mess.

You can't plan with a husband who doesn't do the program.


The biggest mistake I see you making is that in Plan A you are supposed to start Plan B preparations IMMEDIATELY.

Did you read my post yesterday where I showed Dr. Harley says this? YES or NO, please. Stop ignoring my questions. Read my posts and answer my questions so we can help you, please.


Even if you had Dr. Harley himself for your coach, wouldn't he tell you exactly what we are telling you??????

Staying with a husband who won't do the program will make you miserable and sick. A coach is not magic potion that makes it possible to stay longer with a man who won't do the program.

Nope, nope, nope.

You are a liar or you are ignoring me, because YESTERDAY I posted to you where Dr. Harley says a woman should go into Plan B if she can't get her husband to do the program.

Seriously, MelodyLane has been on this website for what, 20 years? Don't you think she knows Dr. Harley's program? Do you think we are just lying to you when we tell you that Dr. Harley recommends a wife go into Plan B when her husband won't do the program? Do we have to go waste his time and ask him to come here personally to say that to you when it's already in the article that I linked yesterday that you were too busy to read?

You need to take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth and start listening, ma'am. All of your talk of therapy and coaching and telling us why you don't want to do the program is guiding you to misery and destruction.

If you don't do this program, your life is only going to get worse and worse and worse. I can promise you that. So please quit arguing and start doing Marriage Builders.

I didn't do Marriage Builders until my wife insisted I couldn't live with her any more if I continued to love bust. She got ready to change the locks (without telling me), and told me to leave. If I hadn't left, she would have changed the locks and had her dad bring me my stuff.

That was after I pissed around here on this website for two years.

100% of men do NOT commit if you tolerate them not doing the program. You have to show zero tolerance (by following the program) or else it gets worse, and worse, and worse. For the rest of your life. Which will probably be shorter than average.

Are you reading my posts, or talking?

Plan B is the only thing that might get him to change.

It is all out war now. We see this, and we want you to get out of it.


Who cares? Quit yammering on about irrelevant stuff like this. Even if you don't feel like you deserve anything better, you can still go into Plan B.

You don't have to wait till you feel better to do the plan. You will only feel better AFTER you do the plan. Feelings follow actions, which is why people who sit in the road navel gazing about their feelings get mowed down by a truck.

It is going to take at least the next 5 days to plan. How do I act towards him in the meantime? He is being nice, hugging me before work and just sent me a nice text.

Of course his bowling league is tonight. I don't even know what to say about that. Do I tell him how much it hurts me that he is going?

Thanks Markos. I do appreciate the help.

It doesn't much matter. Just get your plan made. If he tries to fight with you, don't engage.

What is it that you have to do during this time?

I am working today and tomorrow. I have only read minimum things about it. I don't even know who to choose as an IM, there aren't really any options. Write out my plan. I can't screw it up and have to make sure I'm doing it by the book.

Tell him that this will not work unless he commits 100% to this program. That means agreeing to all the elements of the extraordinary precautions checklist, all elements of the MB program, which means eliminating his independent behavior and creating an integrated lifestyle with you. He would need to commit to the policy of joint agreement which means never do anything without the enthusiastic [versus doing his own thing or reluctant agreements] agreement of your spouse. You should spend all of your leisure time together out on dates.

It also means eliminating opposite sex friendships. If he won't agree to all this, then you should ask him to move out. I predict he will accuse you of trying to "control" him. That tactic has worked for him in the past. When he says that, just tell him that you don't have the power to control him, but you can control what you endure and his lifestyle has led to affairs. Tell him you can't live like that anymore.

All of these steps are designed to protect you from another affair and create a romantic marriage. If he won't do this, then your future will be more of the same.

**you don't need to find an IM or go into Plan B until he is moved out!!** Get him out first.

Thank you. This helps a lot.

And I want emphasize this: you have not been "controlling" your husband; he has been controlling YOU. He accuses you of controlling him when you ask him to stop his marriage wrecking behavior. That is a TACTIC used by spouses who commit independent behavior.

It is like the abused wife asking her husband to stop beating her. He accuses her of trying to "control" him as a means to shut her up.

It is not controlling to ask your spouse to STOP doing things that make you unhappy. It IS controlling to FORCE your spouse to endure his thoughtless behavior. So...he has been controlling YOU.

So when are you going to have this conversation with him?

Mind you, this is the conversation that you already should have had when you two decided to work on recovery and you repeatedly told us he agreed to "everything".

Not sure what happened there but write down what MelodyLane posted to you and stick to the plan - don't deviate as I am assuming you did last time.

Right. And if he agrees to recovery and then turns around and goes drinking and bowling with friends, you don't browbeat him, engage him in a fight while you try to "convince" him to do MB.

You start packing his things.

OK. Thank you.

I went back through to see if I had any old emails from the last time, and I see where things when wrong. Same old, same old. Passive-aggressive, turning the table and blaming things on me. At one point after I found out, I was still checking up on him and he was mad that he had to hurt the OW and for what when I wasn't going to trust him afterwards.

I'm so done here. I refuse to make the same mistakes again this time and spend another minute living like this.

If I talk to him today and he is still not on board, then I ask him to move out right then and there?

or do I wait and hurry up and do the planning for plan B.


I feel like so many more bad things can and will happen if I'm not prepared and ready for when/if he leaves.

YES.


Get him moved out FIRST and then you can plan for Plan B. You can't go into Plan B until he is gone.

newtopia, MelodyLane and the other posters here will help you cope with everything that will happen when he leaves. Now get busy and get that guy out of there.