What Plan A plans do have for when you see her?

I strongly recommend you contact your doctor for some ADs. Dr. Harley recommends them during this trying time.

In regard to plans concerning activities, I am constantly suggesting fun things to do.

Walking, nature walking, reading novels out loud (she loves reading) , a classic cinema theater nearby, pub visits, looking into a new outdoor hobbies, ice cream parlor, out for coffee...

If those get a "no" answer, I have suggestions for staying inside... a line of films to watch, or perhaps her television shows... even just talking about anything.

If plans about pampering: I tell her I love her every day, how beautiful she is, how I am blessed, how she has blessed us with our children, talk about her day, her work frustrations, her favorite books (and how far along I am reading her absolute favorite), her doctor visits... etc.


* Yesterday didn't go so well. What I thought would be hours turned to only minutes before she became upset and left.
She came back 40 mins later, for an unrelated reason, and agreed to try again tomorrow morning.

This is all foreign to me so I would like to ask if this is typical behavior.

( I believe I have heard similar circumstances on the radio program )

She is in a state of wanting to find any excuse to get angry, lash out, yell, blame, accuse, threaten, claim I am not trying to work with her.
(I do nothing to spur these on)

* This happens between occasional half efforts on her part to put in effort.

Bits of sentences cause it, spoken words cause it, non-spoken words cause it, friendly talking causes it, calmness causes it, being nice causes it, flattery causes it.
Even her own wrongdoings are somehow my fault.

I have, every time, refused to engage in an argument and simply continue to remain soft spoken, letting her know I never want to see her upset, that I have been proving I will not show anger, disrespect or make demands. The more she gets angry, the more calm I become... even continuing with flattery and compliments.

Not sure what to think or make of it.

I guess I'll keep this thread to generalizations, as I build a longer range scope of things.

Things are so way up and way down, continually.

Today, (relatively speaking) was a full 180 from what is described just above.

She asked... not demanded, this afternoon, if it was alright to bring the children to her mothers tonight.
I agreed as long as she brought them to school tomorrow on time.
(she has had a habit of letting them skip or bring them in late, when spending the night with her)

She said she promises to and "crosses her heart".

She participated in the POJA and actually initiated it in regard to days of the week for her to spend time with them and also agreed those days of the week would be optional... not guaranteed.
She declined lunch out, but suggested ordering dinner.


Result:

An hour and a half of time together here at home watching television (the usual routine has been to wait in the car, for the kids to come out to her)
Dinner (pizza).
No anger.
Accepted compliments.
Accepted touching and small hugs.
OM's necklace was gone (probably for the first time since it was given to her).
"will think about" going out over the weekend.


* It was nice, and the longest time given for deposits in quite a while, but I'm still keeping to reality.

These things might have been accepted only because I agreed to let her keep the children overnight. (although I have accepted before and did not have such results)

An hour and a half is short compared to the very real possibility she could have spent several more hours if wanting to do so.

"Will think about" going out, likely means no.

Did not want to hug when leaving.

Tomorrow is another day.

And... already way back down the tube, just for asking if she would like to stop for morning coffee as she was only a block away, dropping the kids off at school after they spent the night with her.

A whole day of how terrible I am with anger and false accusations towards me.
(All the while with my only being supportive, positive, and incorporating the idea of using many of the lessons taught here, into my conversation)

She also already broke the joint agreement about the days the children will visit her. Today was not one of those days, but has them hanging out at her work for 5 hours, until she takes them back to her mothers again.

She did so while I was not home and not able to negotiate.

While the affair was happening she had little time for any of us, but now that it has ended she simply makes demands and takes them when she pleases. Any "resistance" from me (IE: trying to incorporate the POJA) causes further accusations of "My trying to keep her from her children as punishment"

In addition, my children are now repeating the same type of nonsense things she has been telling me and are also mad at me for non-existent reasons, including the same types of twisted facts and lapses in memories, as well as hanging up on me.

I told my wife... "It is fine that they spend another night at your mothers, although I would have liked you to stick with what we had agreed upon together. But, it is fine."

That (for various important reasons), "The children need to be brought to my mothers early in the day, so that I may talk with them and find out what is wrong". That "I love all of you with every ounce of my being, but I am not to blame for this".
"I support, help and guide my children, but that I will not be told what to do by them. That you need to support this and not keep attacking me".

That... "I am not afraid to say that all can be healed quickly and lovingly by the return of the love of my life, the mother of my children and the return of a true partnership of parents together".

She refused on all counts, including where and when to drop them off.

I never was granted an honest or real explanation of what the troubles were to begin with, never got an apology for crushing me. Never a sign of remorse and only a miniscule effort on behalf of my WW to heal things.

It is 11 weeks since discovery. Just under 8 since exposure, and just under 3 since she broke contact with OM (with no way to verify if it has resumed in any way).

MB is a wonderful program, developed and supported by caring people.
I will always be grateful for the policies I have learned here.

But the fact is I have worked hard to discover and heal whatever she was "sad" about. Double hard when my wife moved to her mom's just under a year ago. Triple hard, when I discovered the 3 year affair.

I am positive this program works if there is a some sort of even small amounts of continued effort on the part of the WS. I just seem to get more abused and given bits of false hope, the more kind, gentle and flattering I am, and the more I understandingly try to convey the policies taught here.

I am feeling what I did accomplish is to set the other BS on the road to recovery, while he lied to and screwed with my wife's head to such an extent that ours might be impossible.

I am 45, she is 42 and we have been together for just under 25 years, over half our lives.

I will not give up and will always be ready for Plan A when the opportunity arises. But it is likely time to stop initiating the contact for a while, and wait to see if any effort is put forth.
I am tempted to and a few "words of truth", but I am too mentally exhausted to go through that and it is not in my nature to do so.

Our first anniversary apart is in 6 days, and I will give her the presents I have for her.

* Roses, an autographed book from her favorite author, and a silver necklace designed to hold your wedding band.

After that... likely comes the unknown.

Have you verified that she hasn't had any contact with OM?

The only verification I can get is by directly asking her... in which the answer is "no".
(of course how does one tell if she is lying?)

Checking her primary email... which there are no emails to or from.
(But she has a Skype account and an ICQ account which I can not access)

Asking the OM's wife... which the answer is "I believe not".
(They are actually on the road to recovery, but he still has all his electronics locked away from his wife)

* My gut tells me she has not spoken to him. I have hinted at details in which the OM's wife has told me and my wife does not show indication of what I am talking about.

She also removed the necklace he bought her.

So then how is your Plan A going?

The hour and a half I described 5 posts up, post number #2881520, is the most positive result so far.

The next day it was right back to insulting and hurting me, claiming she is never coming back and to give her space.

If I am to keep attempting plan A it will be by my initiating each contact.
I am pretty sure if I were to stop phoning and texting, I would not hear from her for an indefinite amount of time.

My follow up letter made the radio program again, and the suggestion was to keep up being the best husband possible, and if there is no change in attitude in three months, to then perhaps be concerned.

But, she is not yet showing an indication of being open to all I have been saying. My fear is that based on the amount of progress so far, if there is a change in three months, it will be small and I will have again put forth everything I have.

When was it read on the show?

I believe it was on the 12th.

I found it here (5/10) :

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/radio_programs.cfm?recno=506&sublink=507

* I did listen to it more than once but I am not subscribed so I cant re-listen.

If you get the app for your phone, you should be able to access the archives. My iphone app has a archive where you can listen to past broadcasts.

I have tried, but once I search for past broadcasts and log in, I get a blank screen.

I am wondering if I should suggest the radio app to her, or would that be a bad idea?

I've thought about explaining there are great ideas to be heard and are in line with all I have been saying. But, I have a feeling once the discussion turns to affairs, or even exposure, it will backfire.

You get all of the archives for free? LMG?

PTSD, it is totally worth $50 to pay for the archives. Then you can listen by topic which will help you so much. You can download certain ones to focus on. Access for a year is about the cost of a dinner out.

I will very much look into doing that.

The show is great, but the difference I am finding is that it seems to primarily focus on non-separated couples.
Those that have longer and greater opportunities to make deposits.

As or right now mine focuses on texting and short phone calls.
Words rather than the opportunity for actions.

What I am struggling with now is that when I talk about rebuilding and my absolute desire to fulfill all of her needs, and ask her where she feels I have failed in the past, she becomes angry.

"It's too late". "You should know, without me having to tell you". "you are too old to learn change". "I am not giving you the chance".

I then keep, very gently and calmly, explaining my position that change can happen, that we can make each other happy, and that I ask these things because I want to learn and re-learn from and about her.

If she ends the call, the next conversation I initiate is about a non-related subject. Usually asking her if she would like to spend small amounts of time chatting or simple, non-deep activities (like reading, walking, lunch)

I also often tell her she is loved and treasured by me.
(although I am not sure how much is too much)

I can get a bit more time by talking about other topics she is interested in, but not much more.

Another situation I am having is that when she does become upset, she tosses out words such as lawyer... courts... divorce. But does not take any steps to move in that direction.

In addition, all of our family members phones are on a family plan under her name, and when upset threatens to remove mine and tells me to find another... but never actually does that either.

I have read in another thread that in their situation one spouse became upset at expressions of affection, but it was due to the deposits actually working and her unsure of what to do.

I am not sure if that is what is happening or if it is real.
I would think that if she really does want to divorce, take my phone or find a lawyer, some action would have been taken in that direction.

My next questions (in two posts)
I am no longer sure what to do... not day by day, but hour by hour.

Today was nothing but silence.

Yesterday I had explained that I am not trying to push for anything super serious right now. That I know she is not ready for that.

Last night I got her to chat a little about her favorite books, and her most favorite, in which I am reading.
Then in the middle of the conversation the messages just stopped.

Throughout the night and through today I tried several times to get her talking again and the texts just piled up without reply.

(Last night were about just wanting to chat for a while.
This morning was about a dream I had of her. That I love and miss her. About it being a nice day. In the afternoon it was that I would be off work early and would like to know if she would like to go for a walk or read together).

Tried several times to phone throughout the day and although I know she is near the phone there is no answer.

I don't know what to do next, if there is anything I can do.

It seems the more I try the opportunities are growing smaller and the resistance higher. Opposite of the intention.

Our first anniversary apart is in 2 days.
Is there an opinion here on giving her the gifts I found?

- An autographed copy of a book by her favorite author/ series.
- A silver necklace designed to hold her wedding bands (intended to replace the one she removed from the OM)
* I traded the idea of roses for something more permanent.
She loves statues, so I found a nice one with a couple that very much looks like us.
- And of course a very nice anniversary card (in which I plan to write my feelings for her, what the gifts represent, and my vision of our future looking forward to the next quarter century as I did the last).

I am wondering if I should mention these gifts now, in an effort to get a response, or surprise her with a visit to her mothers in 2 days.

Should I not give them at all as it might look like pushing?

( I am a bit afraid she will say she does not want me to give them to her, before even knowing what they are)

And my biggest fear... Plan B.
Something I would rather not do.

It seems Plan B is intended to be implemented as a means to end a still continuing affair.
I am almost certain this one ended just over three weeks ago with a final contact letter.

The OM already deleted his FB page, and his spouse has told me he deleted ICQ chat from his phone (but possibly not from his laptop).
That he has shown her his Skype chat and the last message was a missed call from my wife, also 3 just over weeks ago.

* A call she referenced in her letter as to not hearing back from him.
He has told his wife he was disappointed that his last attempt to contact my WW also did not get a response, and that "his wife and I have won".

* As mentioned, my wife also removed the necklace he bought her.

My question about a possible plan B, while having confidence the affair has ended, is how would I implement it if needed?

Do I tailor the expressions of hurt not to an ongoing affair but to the pain she is currently causing.

Is it possible to implement a Plan B, unannounced?
If she were to call about getting the children or some other reason, I simply say I am busy and to call this other person if you need to talk.

I no longer need an opinion on the anniversary gifts. She came to pick up the children again (against my thoughtfully expressed wishes) and I explained what each represented and gave them to her two days early.

She at first said she did not want them. I explained their individual meanings and she did accept them, between bitter comments.

I said I love her several times (which resulted in a tight lipped scowl each time)

I figure I have nothing to loose. They could very well be the last anniversary presents I give, and the last poetic written message in a card, and I made them mean something special.

I again talked about working together to rebuild and asked if we could chat later and also perhaps schedule some time together to walk or possibly something else.

I got the usual "Maybe. I don't know" answer.

The day after the anniversary, 3 days from now, after I wish her a wonderful anniversary and work a little more an her accepting some time together, I will have to decide on continuing with Plan A, contemplate a Plan B... or just go silent and wait.

I did notice, including the events described above that within the last 24 hours she has become more belligerent. The OM's spouse has said within that same 24 hours he has become sad.

She feels it is for other reasons, but it seems like a close coincidence.

If there is suspicion of contact (without proof) is there anything suggested that I can do, within my situation?