IB needs to change no matter what. I'm not sureif that was clear before.

Apples, yes IB has changed in terms of no longer going to rec activities and now spending 15 hours UA time with me. I completely understand the reasons for continuing to snoop, and will follow your suggestion to talk about meal options beforehand. This is going to be a tough one for us- H will try to dismiss my feelings on this, will say that we need to be flexible and a lot depends on where team wants to go for lunch. H agreed with boys to facilitate their subway trip with other teammates before discussing it with me.

Markos, thanks for the validation. It is inconsiderate to put son and team activities over me. It is not a once in a while thing, either. This is something we come up against every week. I'd love for it to stop, but H does not agree or see it this way.

I know I need to continue to snoop and transparency in marriage is very important. What I'm wondering here is if anyone has had a situation like this (H can be inconsiderate without being mean) that was turned around? H has no real need to do things with wife, include her whenever possible and want her in the car next to him to run errands, etc., but will do what she asks for her sake, and change? Find he likes having her nearby and eventually wants to be with her a lot (or at least consider her more)?

Not sure if this is clear- anyone know of a situation where a H was not having an affair but takes wife for granted and doesn't need much from her or with her, other than DS, some SF? I mean, why would a guy bother to get married? I'm asking this seriously, why would a guy get married (he actively pursued me and proposed after a year, making it very clear after 6 months he'd be asking me to marry him) of he doesn't need a companion? He wanted this marriage and family very much.

Is this all just obvious IB?

It seems to me that you're putting the cart before the horse with all the what if scenarios if you haven't ruled out an affair definitely.

Unless I am misunderstanding and you are saying you already ruled one out? If that's the case then what did you do to rule it out? Pls be specific.

SQ, I can't rule it out but so far nothing. And we've had issues with IB for years so this is nothing new. But now that kids are older and doing more activities that husband is interested in doing with them, that's added to the IB issues a lot over the last 2 yrs.

I'm just wondering if anyone has seen this issue of IB to the extreme in a marriage that MB steps helped a couple change.

For example, we did a different trail today and had a great time, but the last time we did this hike was a year ago, when I was going through the same issues.

And after first son was born, I remember trying to get H to spend time w me on weekends when not working, and he'd go off to do sports w guy friends for 3-4 hours at a time.

When second child was 9 days old he asked to go on a ski trip with the guys. I remember being in tears.

So I'm trying to change old habits here and wondering if UA time and stopping AOs by asking respectfully on my part can turn this around, or if I will always be hoping for more consideration and attention from my H.

What are you doing to snoop, Kat?

I think this is why Dr Harley was telling you that your H reminds him of someone he worked with who only got worse when asked to address the IB. That's the kind of person you may be dealing with. But it could also mean he's got a SSL and wants privacy - that's why we keep pushing you on the snooping.

i don't want to list specifics...H knows about forum.

But H isn't doubling down on IB. He's no longer doing those things. Now that we are spending more time together, I'm witnessing just how careless he is with my feelings, unless he is making a very concerted effort, like he did when we were dating. Our last date was wonderful. He planned another one tonight after missing last night. He was excited to hike w me today.

See why I'm so confused? I understand that snooping efforts need to increase here though because the wondering is driving me crazy. He's acting like a distracted guy who is not connected w me. Signs of SSL. Like husband not telling me anything about rec class, not even that he was partnered up with my female friend.

I'm afraid it might be due to AOs on my part in reaction to the IB. I told him once I was going to go stay at my parents' house with our baby. A decade later he still tells me how badly that hurt him. What if this is me, and he just doesn't like me anymore? I'm more afraid of that than anything.

He needs to stop bringing that up.

Has he told you he is reading? Does he know you are posting here? Did you tell him your user name?

Just because he gave up his recreational activity doesn't mean he isn't committing IB. The examples you described yesterday as "inconsiderate" behavior IS full of IB.

The one where he was going to take off and leave you at the field to get lunch for him and the kids, not asking your opinion, honestly my ex H (a serial cheater - so I know about IB) had never done anything like that to me and of all the other couples I know, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anything like that.

It's shockingly bad IB in my opinion.

This is not just "inconsideration" - this is all blatant IB.

It's just as damaging as the yoga, Kat.

IB is IB - it's a huge lovebuster and will be a disaster for this marriage if it doesn't change.

That sounds like gaslighting to me. If you are just dealing with someone with extreme IB, why would this have bothered him then, let alone now?



Therein lies your problem. You are so afraid to know the truth. But the truth is the only thing that will allow you to sort this miserable situation out.

Had you thought about a followup with Dr Harley?

No. When I told him about MB he asked if it was a forum. So he's aware there is one but doesn't know I've posted here. He doesn't read here either. He did read the articles I sent from the site.

I agree and I appreciate the validation. This forum has been incredibly helpful in realizing that I need to tell him this has to stop if our marriage is going to succeed. Not using AOs has made a difference. But in the past I've used AOs and it has driven us apart. I'm learning here how important it is to address these issues without AOs.

Ok. Now I know why I've been so upset over the years. It is a huge LB for me- but my AOs in response have been LBs for him.

I very much agree.

You're right. And yes I've thought about MB sessions with my husband.

So far, when I address IB and ENs without resorting to AOs, he listens and does what I ask. But as you can see, there are just so many instances that he isn't aware of that bother me, so I need help addressing those without getting mad.

At some point I'd like to get a session with MB with him. Not sure if time is now- we are both taking a lot in learning MB.

Our date last night and daytime rec together was wonderful. I know that my husband can meet my ENs when he sets out to do it. It's the other times when he's intensely focused on sports coaching/son, work, social groups that he is forgetting or not thinking of me.

I need to figure out how to address that. We had a great talk for hours over dinner and afterward about MB. He said he knows he has a problem letting whatever he's immersed in consume him, and in the car on way to meet team he was trying to go over all the parents names and figure out how to address the situation (they had a poor season and he was a coach). He admits he takes everything too seriously at times.

I think this is just his character. He talks to himself a lot, replaying social situations.

He told me I've always been the most important and best part of our life together. He said he just thought we could get through the stress and time commitment of raising the kids for next few years then get back to focusing on each other. He knows that I need my ENs met now and he said he wants to, and he loves spending this time w me. He came up with another rec activity he asked me to do w him, and he had a plan for getting the right set-up for me so it wouldn't be difficult for me to carry.

He told me he's so glad I found MB.

He was more relaxed, happy, and affectionate w me yesterday than ever.

I think a lot of this comes down to my not using AOs to address the IB problem.

You will get free help from Dr Harley if you just keep sending emails updating your situation, or asking further questions like the ones you asked above.

Dr Harley gives loads of free advice, to people who have been on the radio show, and to people who haven't, who just email him. You just need to ask for his help, and he will give it.

I'd really like to see you send those 3 scenarios you wrote about above to him. I think you answered your own question about no.1, when you said you should just have declined the after-sport dinner, but I'd like to hear Dr Harley convince you of that.

You made an agreement to go out with your H. That was more important than hanging out with these sports parents, which would have done nothing for your fragile marriage. You must have already had babysitting arranged with your older son. All you had to do was decline politely. Your older son would have been angry (and I know what that feels like), but you could have offered him something else in return - or not.

The point is that your marriage, and the date you made in advance, is more important than your son's impromptu extra event, which was over and above the dinner you attended the evening before, and the actual tournament (or whatever it was) that you were attending at that moment.

The point is that your marriage has always taken a back seat to your kids' activities and social lives, and that has always been wrong (it is like that in many marriages - it certainly was in mine) and it needs to stop TODAY. You might have to enforce this idea with your son as much as with your husband. Your son might have to give up the activity, or find a way of getting lifts from other parents to get there and back, but he must learn today that the "soccer dad" lifestyle (I know it's not soccer) is OVER in your family, as of right now.

But please do write to Dr Harley. He is incredibly generous with his time and advice.