Sounds like a plan.

I wonder this, too. I don't get putting off contacting Dr. Harley. There's no reason to wait. The time for contacting him is now, BEFORE another lovebuster.

Ok Prisca. I just didn't want to throw another demand in when things are going well.

I thought this was the situation you were already in - he keeps saying he will and then doesn't. Not sure why you would wait other than you are trying to convince yourself it isn't necessary.

It isn't going to hurt anything to insist that he get some help.

How is asking him to contact Dr. Harley for guidance "throwing another demand in"?

Are you worried he's going to get irritated?

(it's not a demand, btw)

As many others have pointed out, why not ask him to contact Dr. Harley now?

I worry that he's going to hear I'm unhappy with his efforts if I tell him he needs to talk to Dr. H, a psychologist. I see him trying and making changes, and I don't want him to think those efforts are unappreciated. Now that we are spending so much time together, we are talking more than usual, communication is getting better. I also believe that part of our issues come from me- that in the past, I've reacted with stonewalling and anger. Now I'm applying MB ways to respectfully and kindly tell him what I need from him, and it's going well. I'm coming here to learn how to handle new situations that arise, and I think it's working. I still need help in asking for what I want in the MB way.

For example, I'm getting from everyone here that I need to stay on my husband about the POJA, and this means even for seemingly minor things, right? Like my husband asked me if it was ok to pick up food from a specific place for our children last night before we went on a date. I said yes, then checked the fridge and realized that one of our children hadn't finished his take-out from the evening before, so I texted him back and said not to get a second dinner, that our younger son still had plenty of food to eat. Husband texted back that he's going to get 2 warm dinners since that's what he told the children he'd do for them. I texted back that I'm not ok with him dismissing my wishes.

I honestly don't care if my child gets a new meal, but I'm working to make sure my husband and I apply the POJA, especially for parenting decisions. He did not come home with a second dinner, and our child ate leftovers. My husband and I discussed it, and while he thought it was a minor issue, he agreed that next time he will not make a unilateral decision.

And what would be wrong with that? Tell me honestly whether you are happy with his efforts. If you were, you would not have needed to post the last few problems you had, where you were clearly unhappy with what he had said or done.

What would be wrong if he did hear that you were unhappy with his efforts? What do you fear that this will make him do? Do you think that if you voice a complaint, no matter how considerately you do this, he will become annoyed and withdraw his cooperation? If that is what you fear, do you see how this is just another way that you are allowing yourself to be bullied by fear that he will do what he has done in the past?

If you are going to get and keep your marriage out of the trough that it has been in for many years, you are going to have to use the MB programme properly. That means that you tell him about everything, no matter how "small", that you are unhappy about. You are going down the wrong path if you plan to pull him up on the big things, but let the little things slide on the grounds that at least he is doing some things, and because there has been a change in attitude.

The problem is that the little things are not little at all, and they are just as important as the big things, and there hasn't been a change in attitude at all. Doing POJA when he has no problem with it, but overriding you when he wants to, is not POJA.

This, for example:

You see, that isn't a minor issue at all. That is the huge problem that has disfigured your marriage for years, and that finally drove you to us.

The HUGE problem is that your husband first, does not have the mindset that he needs to take your views into account before he makes ANY decisions that affect you - and decisions about what the children do (or eat) during the evening are included in that.

Second, he puts what he thinks are the children's interests above his interest in creating a romantic marriage with you. I think you've told us that he claims now to have abandoned that position (that the children come first), but his behaviour and response to you show that he has done no such thing. Frankly, how dare he tell you that he is going to do what he promised the children he would do, rather than considering what you thought should happen for them! That is putting the children first, and it shows that he hasn't learned to shift his priorities yet, at all. This is not minor, Kat. This is immense. That statement from him last night was hugely disrespectful, and his attitude was IB. It is completely unacceptable.

I can't for the life of me see how suggesting you both talk to Dr Harley will put you back a step or make things go less well. I seriously don't understand why you won't just ask him for this, unless it is that you are afraid that he will withdraw his cooperation (which will tell you a lot about his commitment).

In fact, I'd go further and say that you should ask him whether he would be willing to do the online course. I think he would agree to this, and I can see that you're the kind of couple that would respond well to the course. You, Kat, are too scared and uncertain to complain at times, but you can do this at one remove, using the online forms and your coach. Your husband slacks off easily, or perhaps just does not recognise when he is doing something wrong, and will grow to see this as he does the weekly lessons and gets feedback from the coach. You are crying out for the online course.

Just like he agreed last time.

Sugar Cane, you are right. I'm worried that by bringing yet another thing up he will withdraw his cooperation because he will think there is no way he can please me or make me happy. When I first came here, I thought that 99% of the time he was making me happy by doing things for me and our family but there were issues I didn't know or understand why they were upsetting me so much. Now I know that I'm entirely justified for being upset by my husband's IB.

With the food and kids- he brought up the fact that he'd asked me how I felt about getting them food from this place. I agreed. Then I later added that only one child would get the warm food. He saw this as changing plans. And he was getting them food to be a help (no one would have to make their food before going out.

If he'll do that just because you ask him to write Dr. Harley, then he really isn't all that committed.


And when you changed your mind, the default was "Do NOTHING."
It's okay that you changed your mind. It's okay that plans change. What's not okay is him justifying IB with "I'm being a help."

Prisca, when is a good time to bring it up (that he write Dr. Harley)? And I'll use the script you wrote, but how will he know what to say, which issues to bring up?

I don't know why this is so hard for me. I know he's committed to our family. I know he will do it but he will not want to (this is not meant to be a DJ, I know from previous talks that this is not something he will be enthusiastic about).

Sugar Cane is right- I'm very uncertain about how and when and if I should bring up complaints.

Dr. H advised me to show my husband how MB would benefit his life. That approach worked. But now he'll hear that really, I'm unhappy with him and want him to change. And I still don't know that I am unhappy. I'm getting more time w my husband than ever, we are having better conversation, he's taking me out on romantic dates all the time. He does a lot for us, meets all FS needs. It's very difficult for me to tell him this isn't enough.

Now

Were you happy about the small table he wanted to eat at? Are you happy when he supports your son's disrespect toward you? Are you happy when he "dismisses your wishes?"

You are the one on here posting that you are unhappy with how your husband treats you. We are not just coming up with this out of nowhere. And if you can't talk to your husband about what is making you unhappy so that your marriage can become better, then what hope is there?

I would send him an email, now.

You are getting confused because your husband is very good at meeting your emotional needs when he does meet them. BUT, this is only 1/3 of the program. The other 2/3 are Lovebusters and He Wins, She Wins. You will not be happy in the long run if you only do 1/3 of the program because every time he commits a lovebuster, it drains your lovebanks just a little. Eventually, your lovebank will fall deep into the red, and the lovebank deposits he does make will no longer feel so good to you. You will start to hate him.

This is the cycle markos and I went on. He was VERY GOOD at meeting my emotional needs -- he swept me off my feet when we first met. After we got married, the lovebusters started to outweigh the lovebank deposits. Eventually, I hated him.

You don't want to get to that point. It is possible to come back from there, but very, very difficult.

Thank you very much Prisca. No, I don't want to get to that point and this explanation makes sense. I really don't want to do this but I understand why I need to.

Also today's radio show applies to what you're saying, Prisca. Dr. Harley talked about how important it is to get a handle on all 6 LBs because any one alone can drain love bank.

He also says that IB is abusive.