|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Still dragging feet. I'll let you know what he says once I bring up that I'd like him to write Dr. Harley.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
Not to rush you or anything, but when will that be? Can we help grease your feet a bit?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
I told him it would mean a lot to me if he'd email Dr. Harley. He said he would if he needed to but as of now he understands what I need. I didn't press him because I see him trying and enjoying it. He told me that he feels like things are great and that we are more connected than ever.
He's asking me how I feel about anything that comes up with our kids. Our son was invited to a sports tournament and he asked me how I feel about it, and respected my answer.
MB has helped me get what I need from my marriage and how to ask nicely. I'm still learning how to bring up complaints in a nicer way and negotiate better. I'm getting lots of UA time w my husband, which is what I wanted. We are still working on IC...things are much better in that area but still a work in progress. Thanks again for all the help.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209 |
Glad it's going better for you. Hopefully you can remember not to agree to things when you have misgivings.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Thanks, DQ. I'm continuing to apply the rules for negotiation, and I'm getting many opportunities now that our 12yr old is home more due to summer break.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449 |
How are things going, Kat?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Hi Susie Q- thanks for asking. Things are much better in many ways, but I think they'd be a lot better faster if my H would reach out to Dr. Harley. We have been on a family trip so getting lots of opportunities to complain nicely. H is open to eliminating LBs and apologizes/stops doing it when I tell him and is meeting my needs for rec time, family time, a bit more affection and conversation....but I want more effort w conversation/affection. We are regularly having SF.
However, we had a date night recently and spent 25 min waiting for a table w no engagement/effort for conversation on his end. I called him on it, he said he just didn't "need" to talk. I see this pattern- he gives in to my requests, then slips back into doing what he wants and argues w me when I bring up a complaint. When I've reached my limit (start to withdraw) he makes a full on effort to meet my needs by going almost over the top for a while to meet my needs and then some.
He tells me that he sees any bump as a small blip in the big picture, that he sees the big picture and knows we will be together forever. I believe my H very much believes in unconditional love.
Things with the kids are getting much better. He disciplines our oldest more now and supports me in not allowing disrespectful behavior. I'm very happy on that end. 12 yr old's behavior has improved a lot in a matter of weeks. But- team sports are still on the horizon. I've made it clear to H that I'm not enthusiastic about his coaching. So far, he's telling the boys that is undecided for next season and I tell them that Dad and I need to discuss it.
I feel like I'm going to need to keep on my H about certain things- getting 15 hours a week UA time, making good conversation, addressing complaints without arguing, eliminating unilateral decision making. H will not voluntarily schedule 15 hours/week, though rec time together is set and he is fully on board doing rec with only me.
Overall, improved greatly but still work in progress and will continue to make it known that I expect my needs to be met in this marriage, as well as calling out LBs.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 275
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 275 |
Hi Susie Q- thanks for asking. Things are much better in many ways, but I think they'd be a lot better faster if my H would reach out to Dr. Harley. We have been on a family trip so getting lots of opportunities to complain nicely. H is open to eliminating LBs and apologizes/stops doing it when I tell him and is meeting my needs for rec time, family time, a bit more affection and conversation....but I want more effort w conversation/affection. We are regularly having SF.
However, we had a date night recently and spent 25 min waiting for a table w no engagement/effort for conversation on his end. I called him on it, he said he just didn't "need" to talk. I see this pattern- he gives in to my requests, then slips back into doing what he wants and argues w me when I bring up a complaint. When I've reached my limit (start to withdraw) he makes a full on effort to meet my needs by going almost over the top for a while to meet my needs and then some.
He tells me that he sees any bump as a small blip in the big picture, that he sees the big picture and knows we will be together forever. I believe my H very much believes in unconditional love.
Things with the kids are getting much better. He disciplines our oldest more now and supports me in not allowing disrespectful behavior. I'm very happy on that end. 12 yr old's behavior has improved a lot in a matter of weeks. But- team sports are still on the horizon. I've made it clear to H that I'm not enthusiastic about his coaching. So far, he's telling the boys that is undecided for next season and I tell them that Dad and I need to discuss it.
I feel like I'm going to need to keep on my H about certain things- getting 15 hours a week UA time, making good conversation, addressing complaints without arguing, eliminating unilateral decision making. H will not voluntarily schedule 15 hours/week, though rec time together is set and he is fully on board doing rec with only me.
Overall, improved greatly but still work in progress and will continue to make it known that I expect my needs to be met in this marriage, as well as calling out LBs. So how is it going now for real? Will he really give up sports for the sake of your family? Have you told him (even if you have to do it by email) that you would really like for him to write Dr. Harley again? I have a feeling that from the above that things are going better than they were before but things still aren't "great" and you are afraid once the school year starts it will be back to the same old. Have you truly POJA all the sports stuff and everything in your life? So how is it going?
BW-3 Kids Sep:2014 Divorced
"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny. I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Hi Elaina,
He is POJAing parenting decisions with me, including sports. He's not coaching this fall and as for the other sport that starts later, we are discussing it together (he will not coach the travel team but would like to coach the local team for our son- he's telling our son that we are not sure yet).
We are parenting better than ever together and I have MB to thank for that. Our son's behavior has drastically improved in a month. He is no longer angry with me and checks that dad is coming to bed w me every night, something I did not realize he even noticed. I only wish I'd saved years of insecurity for him. My H is very typical in that he views counseling as a last resort and does not want to get to that point (though I've tried to explain MB is not counseling). So he's not opposed to contacting Dr. H if he feels he can't come to an agreement w me, but says he can meet my needs. So far, he is.
I'm very clear in asking for what I need and very vocal about bringing up complaints. I'm no longer acquiescing to anything I don't want or agree with and I'm not allowing him to gaslight me. As for H, he's spending at least 15 hours/week with me, recreating w only me, stepping it up A LOT when it comes to parenting w me and changing bad marital habits (like staying up later to watch TV or going to rec classes). All of that has stopped. As a result, I feel we are closer and more connected. H really responded to Dr. H's point that only 20% of marriages are happy and successful. My H told me he wants us to always be in that 20%.
I do wish he'd read the books and contact Dr. H. I don't want us to slip back into old habits. But I also know that as long as I keep listening to the show and reading in the forums, I'll continue to have high expectations for my marriage. My husband seems to respond very well to high expectations as long as I do not get emotional with AOs.
The best advice I got here was to have high expectations for my marriage, that being married to me has certain requirements: an integrated relationship and a commitment to making me the priority. Once I embraced that, my husband did too. I need to continue embracing that so I plan to continue to be here.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3 |
(he will not coach the travel team but would like to coach the local team for our son- he's telling our son that we are not sure yet). How do you feel about that?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
I honestly don't know. I've told him if I'm certain that I'm the priority and he can continue to make sure we get our 15 hours UA time, then I'd be open to the local team (no overnights). It's for our other child, but the agreement would need to be in place that if there are behavioral issues, he doesn't go to practice.
It's a good 7 months away. I feel I have time to make sure things are continuing to improve.
I'm still not sure that I trust things to continue improving though. I feel like IB could return if we don't stay on it. Is this normal? I've read here in the forums about husbands who step it up when necessary, but then slack off later. I've seen cycles in our 14 years of marriage of more IB then other times. We've had very easy years when things were absolutely great and we were totally connected (months while pregnant and then for years after our 2nd child), but after our first it was very hard. And this past 2 years as you know we became 2 ships passing in the night. I don't want that again and I've told my husband so.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Irritated. We had an incident on Sat where he didn't consider my point of view regarding the kids. Then, on Sunday, he stayed quiet while 12yr old was extremely disrespectful to me. I asked husband to intervene. He acted like he was surprised to have to intervene.
I don't really enjoy our UA time that much. Sometimes he's moody and sticks to his belief that he shouldn't have to make conversation. There are long, awkward silences while on dates or over coffee. Any suggestions on what to do in these situations? I feel like I'm in prison when I have to repeatedly endure them. I've asked him to step it up regarding conversation. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. Unless I'm obviously irritated with him, he usually doesn't. Over morning coffee I've just started pulling out my iPhone to read because otherwise I sit there getting increasingly more annoyed. At dinner though I feel like I'm held hostage.
These things don't seem like enough to throw away the good, but I'm getting tired of trying. I'm starting to think that MB doesn't work for women trying to get their husbands to show them more attention, affection, and intimacy...it needs to come from the husbands themselves.
Is separating the ONLY thing I can do here? Isn't there any other way I can motivate him to pursue me, and do the work without turning my family's life upside down? The only time I see him try harder is when I withdraw. And it sucks. I hate withdrawing. And even then, issues do not get resolved. He just tries to get me in a better mood by doing nice things for me.
After not talking to him much yesterday and turning on the TV to watch my show (I do this maybe once a year, I don't watch TV and in fact, have issues with him tuning me out to watch sports for hours in the fall and spring), and he sat right next to me on the couch, something I have asked him to do in the past and got resistance.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Oh, and he denies telling me that he's waiting for me to "chill out" on scheduling UA time. He says he has no problem scheduling time with me and loves our dates.
I'm not buying it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3 |
I'm starting to think that MB doesn't work for women trying to get their husbands to show them more attention, affection, and intimacy...it needs to come from the husbands themselves. I'm very sorry, Kat, but you're right. A marriage doesn't really work when a wife has to pull her husband along. HE has to decide to put you first and to pursue you. The only option really left to you is to refuse to live this way. Separate. It may be enough to motivate him to get his butt in gear. And if it isn't, and he let's you go, well ... you will know that he was never going to step up to the plate. You'll just know sooner rather than later, and save yourself a long, drawn out heartache.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Thanks for your honesty, Prisca.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 275
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 275 |
Hi Kat... Thanks for your honesty. How would you feel about writing Dr. Harley again just for clarification?
And Prica is right-Dr H has told me too all a women can do is try to motivate her husband into stepping up to the plate to pursue you but if he won't after encouragement, the best MB step to take is to separate. (The reason is that us women are not capable of doing extended Plan A as he calls it and eventually it takes a horrible physical toll on us)
From what I read, your H is only Ok meeting your emotional needs sometimes-he hasn't become an expert at it yet and he is still Love busting you enough that the deposits are easily drained. (moody and sulking are one form of an AO-did you know that?)
Do you think your H could be checking off the list.. ok, doing the 15 hours she wants... check (but almost making sure its more like the teenager kid who "cleans" the bathroom only doing just enough to say they did clean but without a REAL cleaning?)
At this point he seems to be happy with the way things are.
I personally wouldn't just sit there if he isn't going to be engaged (and if he is moody etc, he is actually love busting you during UA which totally defeats the purpose!) Leave.
If your at dinner and he is moody, won't talk etc.. leave.
You can tell him that his behavior bothers and hurts you so much that you can not tolerate it. (so lets say you both came in the car, you can still go sit outside, or wait in the car etc)
I would let him know in an email where things really are with you though. He says counseling is a last resort? Tell him he is on it. You can post your email here and we can help you with it. (if you read the when to call it quits letters, DR H talks about this being a last chance thing before separating to see what the Husband does.) Part of that letter could be a, in order to be in a relationship with me, we need to go through Dr H course so we can have a happy, romantic relationship etc.
BW-3 Kids Sep:2014 Divorced
"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny. I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Hi Kat... Thanks for your honesty. How would you feel about writing Dr. Harley again just for clarification?
Thanks for posting this, Elaina. I'm fine writing Dr. H- I agree we need to do the program.
And Prica is right-Dr H has told me too all a women can do is try to motivate her husband into stepping up to the plate to pursue you but if he won't after encouragement, the best MB step to take is to separate. (The reason is that us women are not capable of doing extended Plan A as he calls it and eventually it takes a horrible physical toll on us) He offers me encouragement, then something happens and I feel hurt.
From what I read, your H is only Ok meeting your emotional needs sometimes-he hasn't become an expert at it yet and he is still Love busting you enough that the deposits are easily drained. (moody and sulking are one form of an AO-did you know that?) Yes, this is the issue. But he would point out that I am the sulker. He hurts my feelings, I try to tell him, he denies it, I feel a very strong need to get away from him. He comes to me with an olive branch, but doesn't want to discuss the issue.
Do you think your H could be checking off the list.. ok, doing the 15 hours she wants... check (but almost making sure its more like the teenager kid who "cleans" the bathroom only doing just enough to say they did clean but without a REAL cleaning?) Yes, when he's in the mood to not want to try or work on things. When he's being loving and caring, he does more than what I expect. It's very confusing, which is why I'm here.
At this point he seems to be happy with the way things are. We just had a talk- he's very happy with the way things are. He doesn't see the problem. He tells me we are all good, that I'm dwelling on negatives, that he's staying strong in that what we have is good and positive.
I personally wouldn't just sit there if he isn't going to be engaged (and if he is moody etc, he is actually love busting you during UA which totally defeats the purpose!) Leave. Thank you for this. I will do this. I will be upset though. Is it ok for me to be very quiet in the car when I have to end our date early because he's not engaging? And WHY does he do this? It's so painful.
If your at dinner and he is moody, won't talk etc.. leave.
You can tell him that his behavior bothers and hurts you so much that you can not tolerate it. (so lets say you both came in the car, you can still go sit outside, or wait in the car etc)
I would let him know in an email where things really are with you though. He says counseling is a last resort? Tell him he is on it. You can post your email here and we can help you with it. (if you read the when to call it quits letters, DR H talks about this being a last chance thing before separating to see what the Husband does.) Part of that letter could be a, in order to be in a relationship with me, we need to go through Dr H course so we can have a happy, romantic relationship etc. We just had a talk where I came to him and told him what was bothering me and I asked him if he's in love with me, because I'm not feeling it from him. I told him I will not tolerate being excluded in his life or feeling like I'm not his first priority. That he needs to be open and transparent to me and that being polite to others comes after considering my feelings. He said he's certain that I'm the priority and he's in love with me and that he loves our marriage and our life. That we've made changes in our lifestyle to make sure I don't feel like that and that we are on the right track. He asked me not to worry...that things are all good. I should have made working with Dr. H the focus of the conversation. I don't know why I didn't. Looks like we need another conversation.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Dear H,
I had a great talk with you this morning but there are still things that need to be said.
Here's what I need from you in order to have a great marriage:
Stop looking for outside stimulation in our marriage. I expect you to want to stay with me at the smaller pool while on a group trip- not leave me for the bigger pool for "more action."
Get excited about planning 15 hours a week of time with me. Schedule it, before you schedule anything else.
When we're on a date, engage. The entire time. Great conversation is one of the reasons I fell in love with you. Without it, I feel very lonely.
Protect our marriage from outside distractions and people. When watching our son's games, sit with me and talk to me- not other women.
When our son is disrespectful to me, intervene. Let him know you don't approve and there are consequences to his actions. Realize that as his mother, I'm going to set limits with him. Negotiate them with me, but don't expect me to trade in my mom card because you want him to have lots of freedom.
During dinner with the family, don't withdraw. We need you to engage at the dinner table.
Show me affection every day, not just occassionally or when you want to have sex. Sit next to me on the couch without my having to ask.
When I bring up an issue or concern, do not tell me it doesn't exist. It does- and as my husband, I expect you to help me find a solution.
If any of these things are too much "pressure" for you, we will need to make an appointment with Dr. H.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 284 |
Oh and you don't physically touch other women.
And if I need to call you during the work day, as your wife, I will do so.
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
0 members (),
542
guests, and
65
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,622
Posts2,323,477
Members71,918
|
Most Online3,185 Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|