Good job, kat!!

This means a lot to me, Prisca. Thanks for all your support.

Kat, this is a great letter to your husband. I must say that reading through these some of these items are disturbing to see in a husband - talking to other women instead of you, leaving you for "more action" at a POOL, etc.

You are right not to tolerate these behaviors in marriage.

Markos, it sounds awful written out like that. When I've tried talking to him about it, he claims he's usually with the coaches, keeping books or helping, and that he's polite when other women talk to him or happen to be standing nearby. But I can remember specific incidents when he was having 5-10 min conversations with another mom and didn't come up to me or talk to me once during the game.

On the group trip, he was with the other dads and didn't sit with me at all the first few days, so I finally went to a smaller, more private pool to read. I invited him to join me and he said "too quiet, not enough action." This was a week-long trip and I spent almost no time with him.

It sounds awful because it is awful
Has he responded to your letter?

He didn't say anything about it, but he made an effort to have good conversation when he got home. He's been doing a lot to work through a list of home things we wanted to get done, which is nice and was making me feel badly that I can't be more appreciative. He seemed a little down though, but was kind.

It's just so confusing. When we talk, he wants everything to be ok and says there aren't any issues. He does a lot for me and the kids. But the intimacy is missing, and it doesn't make me feel like being physically intimate. Even with the time we spend together, the intimacy is still missing. He does send me sweet texts throughout the day. But that's the extent of the intimacy.

I'm starting to think it may not just be an IB thing- that's greatly improved. I think it might be an intimacy thing. Why doesn't he feel he should meet my emotional needs?

A lot of the things you say reminds me of my exH. He would be sweet and take me on dates and do almost anything I asked him relating to MB (radio calls, reading the books with me, online program), however he clung to his IB and SSL.

This lead to a lack of intimacy between us, because getting his admiration and other needs met outside of the marriage was more important to him than having intimacy between us was - even though he would never had admitted it to me, looking back it was clear that that was the case.

I agree with you that MB does not work when the wife has to do the heavy lifting and drag the husband through the program. I wouldn't bother trying to psycho analyze it and rather just take your H's actions at face value. All the stuff you described at the pool and games is pretty awful. And your H knows better. Don't let him gaslight you into thinking you're missing something. You're not.

Sorry you are going through this.

Susie, did you see him doing this before he began having affairs? And is this something I can discuss with him or bring to his attention?

Thanks for taking the time to give me your perspective. It helps to know I'm not crazy- that this is a real thing affecting our marriage. I felt horrible at the pools/games. I will not be able to go through that again.

Hey Kat,
I just posted on another thread this, but one thing that I have learned is that if a Spouse is making you feel guilty for the way you feel - abuse is going on somewhere!

Use guilt like an alarm bell- if he is saying something or doing something that makes you feel this-take note of that action and words so they can be addressed.

Normal, healthy relationships don't demonize or diminish how a person feels. They respect it and try their best to make sure the other person doesn't ever feel guilty over their feelings!

You feeling hurt and alone while he talks to numerous women and refuses to hang out with you is a normal response.
Feeling like you are asking for too much or maybe you are imagining that lack of intimacy also makes me think he has to be abusing you mentally somehow for you to even feel this way. It is guilt you are feeling and why?

You want to be connected intimately with your husband, have him not hurt you, consider you in decisions and treat you with care? WOW....
your terrible Kat!!!! (I hope its ok to tease you)

I am glad you sent that letter. I will keep watching your thread!

I'm glad I sent it too. He was affectionate, conversational, and kind last night.

I appreciate your help on looking for abusive tactics. He did not make me feel guilty last night at all, but when I talk to him about issues, he gets very defensive and definitely gaslights. I think letters are the way to go for us.

It's really nice to come here and get support in knowing I'm not crazy, and I am being reasonable. It keeps me from feeling guilty.

I can remember very early in our relationship he was being quiet and weird and I found out later it was because he was hiding something from me. Then in early in our marriage we really spent most of our time together and he was a pretty devoted father and husband and I don't remember him being withdrawn.

He was quiet and withdrawn (at times - I don't mean that he was quiet and withdrawn 100% of the time but enough where I felt we had trouble connecting) later in the last few years of our marriage... looking back I know for a fact now it was because he had a SSL and was more focused on IB than the M.

Kat-

When you first mentioned how he didn't want you to go on the trips, and wanted to be at a different pool etc., it raised a red flag for me.

Men can compartmentalize and get their needs met in different places. So it is possible for him to do the minimum to keep you meeting certain needs, and then escape to get other needs met.

One example of this is watching porn. It meets certain needs outside of marriage, and it is all done incognito. It satisfies a craving for variety with no effort, but it completely blocks intimacy. That type of compartmentalization is instinctive for men because of how their brain is different from ours.

What has worried me is that your husband sits all day in his PRIVATE office, would go every day at lunch to an ALL WOMEN exercise class, didn't want you on the trips, went for more "action" at the other pool, and has shown impulsive behavior like the gambling, in front of your son.

Now, maybe there is no issue here. But you are feeling the disconnect. I truly think that you need to find a way to snoop and get spyware on his work computer, his phone, and maybe even a VAR in the office. You may learn some things which will help you understand the disconnect.

DQ, I agree I need to find out what's causing the disconnect. I don't know how. I've tried and nothing comes up on iPhone. I can't do anything on his computer. His company IT guy handles his remote office setup.

Is it possible that he's so good at compartmentalizing that he'll never be able to have an integrated marriage? I think that's what's going on here. He was very independent when I met him. And very romantic, loving, and kind. But now that the romance has dropped I'm left with behavior like not noticing if I'm in the same room or not when he's doing "his" recreation time or enjoying "his" sports/coaching time with buddies.

He was very respectful of me and didn't give me any reason to think he was watching porn or chasing women. He hasn't been to a strip club since we met. But the talking to other moms at games instead of me bothers me a lot, same with meeting women at lunch and getting to know them, and assisting them in poses and not telling me about it.

And while I know he likely didn't spend much playing blackjack with other team dads on that tourney, it bothers me that he didn't tell me about it. He'd say he spent $100 and didn't think it was a big deal. We each have a personal budget and I don't check w him when I spend my budget on myself.

A VAR in his office would be very difficult. I don't have access without him. Hasn't anyone else been in this situation? Any other suggestions?

Until you can rule out a SSL, secret second life, you can't eliminate that as a contributor to the disconnect.

The fact that he went to strip clubs before REINFORCES the possibility. You might also put a VAR in his car.

As long as this program is followed properly, he can connect. It changed my husband. But I definitely would see if he would be willing to do the online coaching program. The point of it all is foreign to someone who tends to be disconnected.
The program coaches us to behave in new ways and those behaviors create new positive connections.
You say that he is romantic but disconnected, and you are not in love. Something is off.

Another concern.

Like Dr. Harley said, your husband's "theory" or picture of marriage is not one of integration. You should have access to his office, computer and all passwords.

There's no way my husband would have gotten the picture without doing the online program.

He was romantic earlier in our marriage. I am in love, but feel deeply hurt when he's disconnected. He says he's in love with me. I feel that from him but not all the time. I felt it the other night and I started crying. It made me realize what we're missing the other times.

I asked him to contact Dr. H and asked him to do the program. He said everything is great, just a few tweaks. I can't make him do it without an ultimatum.

He'd been to clubs for bachelor parties but not since we met and not at his own. He agrees that they're distaseful and disrespectful to girlfriends/wives.

My husband was disconnected for years also. I eventually discovered that he had had a couple of affairs affairs (years before I found out). He had compartmentalized them and moved on, but really feels that having those secrets and maybe the guilt, kept him from having any intimacy with me. It wasn't until all the secrets were out on the table that we truly reconnected intimately again.

I would highly recommend you becoming a super sleuth. You could spin your wheels for years trying to find out why there is such a disconnect if you don't make sure there is not and hasn't been a SSL.

Do you not have PW's for his work computer? The fact that you do not have access to parts of his life is a red flag. You should have access to every part of his life.