He is skilled at saying "no" in creative ways. You might try emailing him like you did recently.

I would keep bringing it up as a thoughtful request.

You could try asking how he would feel about doing the online program to spruce up your marriage.

I would also snoop. Have you spyware on his iphone or are you spot checking?

Unwritten I know you are right that I need to find out. Sorry for your experience but I appreciate your sharing.

The disconnect, quiet, withdrawal, irritability towards me at unpredictable times, and lack of SF for 2 months straight...all red flags.

While on that 8 day trip with the team we were more disconnected than ever. It was seriously weird and a huge wake up call to me that it can't continue. He was angry at me because I was angry w him. He did not want to spend time w me or coparent w me. He wanted to have fun and let the kids have as much fun as possible and saw me as an obstacle.

He will think I've become a paranoid, crazy, jealous wife if I tell him I need his pw
for his work computer.

I know. He's a master negotiator at work. Talking to him about any issues causes a lot of grief on my end which is why I need to bring anything up by email.

I like how you phrased MB coaching. Should I just email it to him? That might work if he doesn't see it as s threat. But he'll tell me our marriage is great. To him it is. It is to me when he's not disconnected and withdrawn.

But here's an example of the 50/50 of our marriage. This happened last night. We found out some important health info about our son. H didn't ask me about it at all after he came home. I talked a little about it w him. He was giving 1 word replies, getting very quiet. I stopped talking about it but was a little bummed he didn't ask me how I felt. We sat in silence. I asked what he'd like to do. He said sit and stare at view. I said I'd be happy to sit if we could make conversation. He said "I'm just sitting here. I'm not doing anything wrong. It's just too much!" I said "Ok, if it's too much to have to make conversation w me, and engage with me, I'll go do my own thing." I left to go to another room and read. He fixed something for me that I'd brought up a few days prior and came into room after and said he loves me and would like to have a good night w me. We ended up watching TV with the kids.

I really didn't feel like getting into a negotiation about how watching TV doesn't meet my ENs. I didn't want to disregard his olive branch though.

How can this all seem great to him? Or am I blowing out of proportion?

*adding that I did not bombard w health stuff about our child right wen he got home. This was about an hour later while we had a chance to chat alone and after he'd had time to unwind.

I'm assuming that your husband's highest needs are for Admiration, Recreational Companionship, Physical Attractiveness, and Sex.

Just like Susie's husband, those needs can be met by you AND others, including himself, without you even realizing it. Unless your husband is closing the door to having his needs met elsewhere, you can't have a great marriage.

DQ, he rated attractiveness lower when we did EN questionnaire a few years ago. I know I meet his need for attractiveness. He rated Admiration, Domestic Support, Family Commitment, and SF as his top needs.

He's not flashy at all so I don't think he'd list attractiveness as a big one. I put it as one of my top needs that he meets and he thought that was shallow (even though he's also attractive).

He also told me that he enjoys recreation that I don't and he's find doing it solo (surfing is one).

But yes, he can obviously get those needs met elsewhere except family is big to him.

Dr. Harley touched on this when I talked w him, that H married me because he was attracted to me and he wanted to have a family. But his theory of marriage is that we don't need to integrate, that he can do his thing and I do mine, and come together at family time and for sex.

I asked H about this and he said yes, he does have that idea, but he is willing to meet my ENs by spending more time w me. He also responded to my asking him to have a more integrated, caring marriage very favorably, saying he wants that too.

Yikes.

We were didn't know that and we also didn't know you did not have access to any of the work stuff or his passwords. This is the kind of information you need to share, Kat, so that we can help you.

I don't think you need to worry about your H checking the forum. Even if he was to read it, I still think discussing this kind of stuff here is more important than him knowing you're discussing it here at this point.

2 months without sex signals porn or affair or chemical issue and is a huge problem. If I had it to do all over again, I would have separated because of that issue alone. It is a symptom of a serious problem- one that won't get solved by complaining alone.

Just because he stopped strip clubs and thinks it can be disrespectful to women, doesn't mean that cravings go away.

Would it be possible for him to have an affair or watch porn at the office? Does anybody see what he is doing during the day? Have you ever just shown up there unannounced? Do you have a GPS or VAR on his car?

This sounds very much like my ex-husband. Very much so.

GPS yes, no VAR. Spyware on iPhone. Yes he could watch porn at office. It did bother me that he had been to clubs prior to meeting me but he wasn't a regular- he went for bachelor parties. Not saying that's ok- it isn't. But Dr. H has pointed out that what a person does prior to marriage regarding other women is their business. He hasn't gone at all since meeting me.

I agree with your point that 2 months is a big issue. It was to me because he is usually affectionate when leading up to SF. Without it, he wasn't affectionate at all. So although SF is not my top need, without it he wasn't motivated to meet my other intimate needs.

Good to know. We talked about it and he said he didn't think it was a big deal. I found out when a friend told me she'd been partnered up w him lots of times and she hoped I didn't mind.

That is why a SSL happens. Keep up appearances, keep the wife reasonably happy, and get some action behind the scenes. Don't want to lose the maid, cook and child-raiser.


So you may be in competition of some sort for need meeting. But you also have the "theory" of marriage problem.

That theory is usually ingrained. It takes a LOT to change it. What has to happen is education, action, and then motivation comes. Your husband might be motivated if you were to separate because he would no longer get certain needs met by you, which he takes for granted. It would also send a very clear message that it is painful for you to live where you are partially connected. You need to create full compatibility.

One of the most difficult things to do is to treat a big deal like a big deal, when the other person considers it a little deal. I STILL struggle to do this sometimes, just like you. My husband can be such a nice guy, and he has made so much progress, so I can just let this minimizing go. Blame it on a mood. Make an excuse for him.
If it is a PROBLEM for you, then it needs to become a PROBLEM for him or eventually the court will force him to pay attention. Not because you are threatening, but because a "theory" of marriage like your husband's ends up being destructive and cause lots of problems which deteriorate the partnership and ultimately destroy the family picture he cares about. It will not stay level. It gets worse. And his "theory" prevents it from getting better. (Maybe you have heard Dr. Harley discuss this on the radio show.)

He doesn't know any different. It is a foreign concept to him. You can't force him to understand. Too bad he paid lip service to making you happy. He was willing to do a couple of tweaks and that's it I guess.

DQ, yep, nodding to everything above, except PA. He knows that would destroy our family. I could see having admiration needs met in class though. He no longer goes.

I'm going to take your advice and make everything a big deal that is a big deal to me. At this point, I've been advised here to stop bringing anything up that has already been said. The last letter addressed everything. Prior to that, he started recreating w only me. We are getting UA time but it's not always good. No conversation or engagement=end of date.

I've learned so much here. It is VERY hard for me to do what you suggest above but that letter was the best thing I ever did. Now those things are no longer only my problem.

I want to try this more. I've been advised here multiple times to separate. I just don't want to. I want things to improve. I don't want to do that to my family.

Good job, Kat. Rule out the SSL.

Hi Kat!
Does he know that you feel like the marriage isn't in need of just some tweaking?

I want to give you something to think about.
I am not trying to push you into separating, but it is actually not something you do to your family! It is you standing up for your future!

You just stand your ground-that's all. By separating, your view that "It's not good enough' stops becoming your opionion and has turned into fact.

So, If you hear: 'Dad wants to come home'

You say-Awesome. As you know, he can come back anytime-but the secret second life and not meeting my needs can't.

The onus is now OFF of you with this set up and on HIM.
You no longer have to prove that your views are acceptable.
He is the one who is refusing to change.
He is the on holding fast to the unreasonable thing that is the blocker to a happy marital recovery.

Also-if your children (or any one else) has the bizarre view that a neglected women with IB, SSL etc as your letter stated treatment
by a spouse is no biggie and can be comfortably endured-
you and your Separating are now living proof that it can't.

It is such an addiction that a man is choosing it over his family.

Game, set, match.

I also totally understand you not being "there" yet as to separating while you are seeing effort on your H part etc. So I am not trying to pressure you!
Just wanted you to see it from another point of view.

Just to let you know... its not an olive branch... I would call it him giving you crumbs.
YOU don't need to be the one here trying so hard to accommodate the crumbs he is giving you Kat!

Don't do things if you aren't enthusiastic about it. I understand not wanting to get into negotiations about it- just don't do it if you don't want too.

When you H went off with his AO- an OUCH would have been fine and then just leaving.

When I read your posts, you sound like a person who is almost apologizing even to us.. I am sorry I have needs, I am sorry I don't like it when he does this... I am sorry that my husband has to do anything for me- I must be blowing my life out of proportion! I must be some awful person because I need him to treat me like a wife ALL the time when he even gives me treats- sometimes!

I feel SO BAD about what I need from him and that I need him to change that when he throws me crumbs I eat it up and say thank you for finally noticing me.

(And why wouldn't he think this is great. Just months ago he acted almost as if you didn't exist-Now he is giving you attention etc sometimes, which is just soooo much more than what he was)

Thanks Elaina- that is what I wanted to know. Wasn't sure if I'm overreacting in those situations.

Couldn't agree more.

Kat I am very worried that you don't have access to all of your H's devices. Your H behaves in ways that to all of us are huge red flags that he is possibly carrying on a SSL. You seem to think that maybe he is just a bit flirty but he would never do XYZ...trust me when I say that many people here felt that way at one time. You need to have access to everything in his life. There is only one reason for him to balk at this transparency, because he is hiding something.

You seem like a very sweet loving wife and mother, but you also seem to not want to ask too much or seem too demanding or rock the boat in any way. You want to be the good wife who doesn't cause problems.

All of this thinking on your part has to stop. You are his wife and partner. You deserve to have the marriage of your dreams. You deserve to be treated respectfully. You deserve to know the truth about everything. You deserve to have access to every part of your husbands life.

Until you believe all of this, he will not believe it.

If my H had any device PW protected and I asked for the PW, I would not in any way feel paranoid, crazy or jealous. And he would not in any way feel like I was being so. In a healthy integrated marriage, there is complete transparency, that is not only accepted but welcomed.