You will never be able to trust her until you follow the MB plan and affair proof your marriage. You will never be able to trust her as long as you do not build an integrated marriage. These two things are essential to recovery, and you have neglected them. What she is doing is not surprising. It's not a new problem -- you have yet to take steps to recover from her previous affair.

This is more than just a situation where the wife is simply not getting her needs met. When a BH issues an ultimatum, then proceeds to change nothing and doesn't follow EPs himself, the marriage almost always fails.

Recovery is more than an ultimatum.

He has been dishonest with all of us these past few years. He passed himself off as having recovered his marriage, when he wasn't even following the program (following EPs is basic stuff -- doesn't take a lot of finesse). When the truth comes out, he brushes us off. I only hope that when he does contact Dr. Harley, he is honest with him.

We have returned from our vacation. On the last night of our trip, my wife and I spent a very fun night out together, and we were in a suite hotel so we had our own room apart for the kids. We are not huge fans of Vegas, but it was nice walking the strip, having a couple of drinks at Magaritaville, watching a live band, dancing, and returning to our suite. We had two solid days alone doing things together in a romantic environments on this trip. This weekend we celebrate our Wedding Anniversary and we will be going out to her favorite restaurant.

So I have not thrown in the towel, and we are going to work through this. Still, I am deeply hurt by my wife's choice, extremely distrustful of her, and once again shattered that she has so little regard for me in making the choice that she did.

I want to be clear about something. After my wife and I divorced, our marriage did fully recover. We followed the plan and it worked. We have been happy in our marriage. The last 6 months our UA time has dipped and that was a mistake on both of our parts, mine especially. But we were still spending time together alone. We are back on track now.

Melody Lane gave sound advice to Raplhy 3 on page one of his thread that applies to my situation, and I will be following it.

I emailed Dr. Harley yesterday.

As far as my ultimatum goes, I believe in boundaries. Some here may not, but I am not afraid to set them, and even though I'm making an exception this time, I will not make one again.

j3, I'm glad to hear things are looking up. I hope you'll seen be enjoying a good marriage that is better than ever for both of you.

As far as boundaries I'm pretty sure most of us here believe in them.

You spent nights apart. You made exceptions to EPs, made ultimatums, and neglected UA to the point that your wife was bored with her life. You are not in an integrated marriage. This is not a recovered marriage. If you want to fully recover, you will need to follow EPs to the letter and not cherry-pick them. Otherwise, this will just happen again.

Dr. Harley does not advocate ultimatums. He says they do not work and that issuing ultimatums is dangerous to a marriage. You are, once again, cherry-picking and not following the program.

Thank you, Marcos. There are miles to go before we sleep but the rudder has moved in a better direction now that my feelings are not so raw.

We don't spend a lot of nights apart, and we are almost never away from each other. The days I was away this month I was with one of my daughters.

As far as the recovery goes, I believe the marriage was recovered. However, I am going to ask my wife for her opinion. She may disagree, and if she does, I will act on that information. I'll talk to her this week.

To the last point, Dr. Harley has always stated that infidelity is grounds for divorce. But he errs on the side of saving the marriage. I agree that's its important to fight for the marriage, and that is why I am giving this another chance. But the barriers must be in place, and out of fairness to my wife I am making them clear to her.

Let us know what Dr. Harley says.

What EPs will be implemented? How are you going to affair proof your marriage?

Will do, Brain. Still working on how to affair proof things. I did mention to her that from on for me to feel safe I will have to keep a close tabs on all that she does. She got rid of her apps on her phone. I asked for the old password on those apps but she would not give them to me. I told her no secrets in a marriage and she is hiding something. She refuses, and this is a big sticking point for me. Could be a deal breaker as far as EP's go.

I think I'd get into that phone come hell or high water.

I agree with markos, get into that phone. Do you have spyware on the phone?

Update:
Today I wrote my wife a letter that included a suggested pathway towards marital recovery. In that letter I included the list of Extraordinary Precautions that Dr. Harley suggests to spouses recovering a marriage in which infidelity took place. The one that gets frequently posted on this "Surviving an Affair" thread. At the end of the letter I wrote: "I asked you in a recent text message if your heart is in the marriage and if you are in need something more than what I can offer. You did not answer. Please let me know if you�re willing to work with me in taking the necessary steps to recover our marriage. I believe our marriage is worth saving."

After giving her the letter I left the home to give her time to read it and think it over. When I returned, she was in her room, and she was crying. She shared with me that she has changed and that she doesn't think she can stop looking for thrills from other men. She said she feels very bad for me, that I'm a good man, and that I don't deserve to be hurt. She called herself a monster. But she made it clear that I am unable to satisfy all of her sexual desires, especially as they relate to BDSM and sex of the mind. She still loves me and doesn't want to break up our family, but she doesn't think she will be able to curb her desires and avoid future infidelities. She doesn't feel the EP's I've put in place as a condition for recovering the marriage will work as she will feel boxed in and will try and find ways around them. However, I know that if she can't meet these EP's then our marriage is doomed.

I feel so bad for my wife. She is the love of my life, and I wish I could help lead her away from this destructive path. This is a tragic development, and I fear for her. I want to help her, but I don't where to turn. My first thoughts are that she should enroll in seven step program for sex addicts.

Just-
I am reposting part of my previous post to you as it applies here.



Even though it seems like a lost cause, you may be closer to recovery than you think. This was your wife being open and honest with you. Please thank her for sharing her feelings with you and take great care to be respectful. I would not suggest addiction groups. I would suggest you write this to Dr. Harley right away to get his advice. I hope you are on ADs because hearing this stings!!

DQ,
Yes, you read the situation correctly early on. Thank you for your suggestions. I was very respectful and tender with her today when she told me. I was very appreciative of her honesty. Even though it hurts a lot, I did not direct any anger or resentment her way. I didn't feel those emotions today. Just sadness and helplessness. Neither of us know what to do.

Justthe3ofus, did you reach out to Dr Harley?

Where is she being exposed to BDSM? Can they be eliminated - computer, Kindle, Tablet?

Just, here is how I see your situation. Your wife is no different from men who become jaundiced and warped in their sexual preferences by watching porn online. In your case, your wife actually has online affairs in addition to watching porn. If she stopped doing that and made your marriage sexually exclusive, she would learn to enjoy sex within her marriage. But she has to stop getting her sexual needs met outside of marriage. It is much like getting high on heroin; the contrast to real life is always suffering because she is high on a sick fantasy.

Your marriage can heal if she gives up her secret sex life and you all start working the program. That means creating a passionate, romantic marriage using these concepts.

p.s. if she won't agree to do this, then you don't have a marriage.

Did this list include absolutely no more nights apart? (It doesn't matter if your daughter is with you when you are apart. Apart is apart.)

j3, Dr. Harley deals with this sort of thing frequently. Why don't you mention that to her, tell her Dr. Harley used to run a chain of mental health clinics that dealt with all sorts of situations, and see if she will talk to him? I'd see what he recommends rather than playing Russian roulette with treatment.

And I'd do this as an expression of care and concern for her. If she feels like a monster, this is something that can help.