We have the workbook, SAA book, Love Busters book. Tonight we watched the first DVD of His Needs Her Needs. WW said she really enjoyed it.

I am glad we went to counselling today, because WW had claimed we didn't completely work through things in the past, but now she has acknowledged that is not what we need.

We are continuing to learn how to meet each other's EN. Last night I felt like we needed to discuss boundries in greater detail. I have been nagged by fog speak she had with Facili-SIL that had not been addressed. I told her that I would not be comfortable with her relationship with Facili-SIL remaining the same. I requested that she cease all relationship talk with her. She has not been discussing this with her lately, but I wanted WW to understand that this must be a permanent change. She agreed, and deleted entire text thread she had with her. I said that I would never be comfortable with her hanging out with Facili-SIL in a social non-family setting if I was not present. She said she understood, and was remorseful for "screwing everything up."

I asked her why she didn't have intercourse with OM. She looked uncomfortable since this was the first detail question I asked since DDay. She said that he initiated sexual contact, she hesitated then reciprocated. She said that they "didn't get there " I asked why, and she said they posibly would have but he finished early each of the four times they were intimate. I'm really not sure why I asked. I just need to put all of the images in my head to rest.

Our children are thrilled with the new closeness in our family. We have had many good days since d-day. We are both pushing very hard to make lasting changes to our relationship. I thank God for this place, and all of you wonderful people!

That's a great update, Forged!

How much UA time are you two getting in a week (away from children and outside of the house)?

We have had plenty of SF, but not enough UA as you described. We have taken a few walks in the woods, but not enough. Dealing with sick twins since Halloween has made it hard to get someone to watch them for us. We have date night planned for Friday, and a family night bowling with friends on Saturday. I hope to go kayaking with WW Saturday morning if the weather cooperates.

Why are you still talking about the affair? Did you ask all your questions?

You always ask the good questions. Why am I still talking about it? I thought I had asked all I wanted to know, but that question kept popping into my head. We had a good discussion about it, and now I can close the door on it altogether.

I saw OM at grocery store. He did not recognize me. It made me glad I do all of the shopping. Even if we move 2 towns over, that is still the store we would shop at. WW said if she saw him anywhere she would move away quickly. The kids know to run if they see him.

Taking care of sick children earns LB points! That in and of itself is of great value if domestic support is one of her top EN's!

It will be vital to your recovery to get in the appropriate UA time weekly. There will always be reasons to skip it here and there and you guys will need to find a way to make it a priority. And family bowling unfortunately does not count. You are going to have to find babysitters and other work-arounds to make this happen.

Many people try to skirt over this part of MB and it NEVER works. So start thinking of ways to make this happen WEEKLY. For life.

I think you are BOTH going to be triggered and OM's name will be a temptation for you to bring up over and over as long as you live there. That's what I've seen over the years with people who don't move far away from the OP. Its harmful to R each time you guys talk about the A or OM. Please don't do it anymore.


Ok, you know that you need to move further than 2 towns away, right?

just know this is how affairs start again. This is WHY you need to move to a place where you can't run into him. Every time your wife sees him or hears about him her feelings will be triggered.


You won't be telling you if she decides to resume her affair. Which she is likely to do since her feelings are perpetually triggered. Promises mean nothing. Keep in mind she made a solemn VOW to you when she married you. She broke it many times and will not hesitate to break her "promise" to not see the OM again.

We are working to make the move happen. We are underwater on our mortgage, and those payments are 60% of my current salary. We have zero savings, so the prospects are limited.

I am aware of and concerned by the possibility of inadvertent contact, and the feelings that contact will generate. I am saddened by the fact that we will have to sell the house we designed and built with our own hands, but I understand the necessity of the move.

Mel, WW is currently disgusted with herself for the A, and for the fact that she did not see OM for the evil person he is. I realize that all of this is just the flipside of the fog, though, and could easily change if the circumstances were right.

On a more positive note, I made a major deposit into WW love bank yesterday. She had mentioned a church mothers group event that she wanted to go to on Friday. She said she would not go so that we could go on our date night. Her girlfriend also wanted to go, but did not have childcare. I volunteered to watch her kids with our kids so that they could go the event together. She will be picking up WW so that the can drive together. We moved date night to Sunday evening.

We are working through the MB program, and are committing a minimum of 1 hour every day to the process, with multi hour blocks of time at least once a week. We are developing our plan for more UA, and have been reaching the 15 hour goal so far. This has mostly been in our home, so I am really pushing for more recreation time outdoors without the kids, since it is one of our favorite things to do together.

That was a mistake. You should not put anything ahead of your marriage - not even something as wholesome as a church mothers' group. The message you have sent to your wife is that the event is less important than your marriage, and by asking for the date night to be changed, your wife has sent the same message to you.

You'll probably say that your wife did not ask for date night to be changed, but I think she "mentioned" the event, and her friend who had no childcare, and her willingness to forego the event in favour of your date night...precisely so that you would get the hint and offer to move the date night. In other words, she was not willing to forego the church event to go on a date with you.

You need to agree, as a couple, that your date nights (or days) will be scheduled a week in advance, and that, once scheduled, they are immovable. Don't put anything ahead of your marriage.

The only UA time that can be done in the home is SF. Anything else needs to be done outside the home, on a date. Dr Harley is adamant on this. Apart from SF, the time you have been spending at home does not count.

Back to the drawing board.

Remember: your wife owes you "just compensation" for the two affairs that you know about. She needs to go above and beyond to make sure that Dr Harley's checklist for surviving affairs is followed. This means that your marriage should be her priority, now and for ever. Getting you to postpone date night is showing that she does not see your marital recovery as the priority.

What your wife could do, for example, is watch her friends' kids (though not on what was supposed to be your date night) as part of a reciprocal arrangement, so that you have enough credit to call in the favour for more date nights or days. One block per week won't cut it.

That is cute and winsome......and meaningless. It is like the alcoholic who SWEARS off drinking the morning after he gets caught. He swears it off until the sting of the last drink wears off and then he drinks again. That is what you are facing. I hope you don't have to find this out the hard way.


You don't make "major lovebank deposits" by babysitting while your wife goes out with someone else. You make major lb deposits when you are with her. You can't meet her top intimate emotional needs [the ones that create romantic love] if you are not there.

Isn't your marriage a little more important that this event?


Please sit down with the worksheet and plan out your week for your DATES. You are pencil whipping this exercise and I assure you that your wife will NEVER fall in love with you again unless you get serious.

Print this out TODAY: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/FiveSteps_Time_for_Undivided_Attention_Worksheet.pdf

Go sit down with your wife TODAY and plan out 4 - 4 hour dates with your wife OUT OF THE HOUSE. This program does not work without this step. So all the other things you are doing are a waste of time if you refuse to do this.

The best protection from another affair, other than extraordinary precautions is to be in love with each other. It takes 15 hours of UA time per week to MAINTAIN romantic love and 20-25 hrs per week to CREATE. Your wife is not in love with you. Do you want her to be in love with you?

UA time should be spent out of the house on DATES with no kids, and no friends around. You should focus on the intimate emotional needs of conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. <----------those are the EN's that create romantic love.

The other non intimate EN's do not create romantic love. So, babysitting your kids while she goes out will not create romantic love.

And babysitting someone else's kids will create even less.

There's a misapplication of MB principles happening here. You can't excuse away an opportunity for UA time by saying, Oh, instead I let the W do this activity she loves and made a huge deposit! It doesn' work that way.

The information that posters are giving to you regarding UA time is clearly laid out, right here on this site and it takes minutes to read. Other activities with family and friends only come into play AFTER UA time is met.

Forged, given that this is your WW's 2nd affair, you cannot afford to cherry pick through this program again.

There was a poster here who for YEARS told us how disgusted his WW was with herself for the A and hated the OM etc etc.

The M never recovered and the WW ended up doing some things that Dr Harley told this BH was not compatible with having a happy M and he should separate/D.

My ex WH expressed extreme remorse, cried real tears, denounced his OW in a similar fashion and was willing to do MB, etc etc. Three years later, he went on to have another affair.

Please ignore all this talk from your WW. This is not that uncommon for a WS (espeically a serial cheater) and it means nothing. You guys shouldn't even be discussing the A or the OM anymore.

I agree on the discussion thing. She just told me today that OM goes to Florida for two months in the winter. Perhaps she thought that would buy us time to sell house. I was upset that she felt compelled to think about it, and to mention it to me. I asked her to never speak of A or OM again. I asked her to read the "forgive and forget" Q&A. She said she did about an hour later. I asked her to read them again.

I let her know that I don't think we are working hard enough to move ensure that this will not happen again.

It is time to get much more serious about the work on the table. I am afraid she is trying to glaze over the pain she caused to me, and the genuine danger she exposed our family to.

Does that mean you disagree on the date night thing? You haven't yet responded to those posts.