and I'd like to say I wouldn't reoffend if we worked hard at this issue. The last way we tried was I threw myself into what I thought would repaid the chasm and he ran away from it. There was no joint planning or anything, no plan on bringing love or romance or even trust back into the marriage, just don't do it again, or else. Which clearly didn't work.

I noticed this and wanted to bring it to your attention. You cannot yell. That is an absolute killer love buster. Don't ever raise your voice again. If you ever feel that this might happen, leave the room. When you are totally calm, you can revisit the subject with his permission.

Nothing is more effective than the POJA (policy of joint agreement) at solving problems and nothing is more effective at escalating problems than yelling.

Oh I know its wrong now. I really didn't understand the whole thing, and because i was forcing him to accept my "gives" which he didn't see that way, it just led to frustration and then I threw in all the love busters....yelling, calling of names, you name it. I failed. I know I did and I want this to succeed this time. I know the rules now.

On a related topic...can someone help me define control? Just an example....I work from home, therefore I'm here 99% of my time (very limited outside of marriage social life) while he works for a company that has him driving to client's houses all day. After the last blow up (3 years ago), he has refused to tell me where he is going. I keep saying its just small talk/conversation but he says I'm trying to control him. Its his job, his clients, HOW could I control this? And he never wants to hear how my day is, who I talked to, or anything, in fact he rolls his eyes if I come out and say "at work today......", I think this is related.

What you describe is not control at all, it is just the normal transparency that is practiced in a healthy marriage. I wouldn't focus on that now. Instead focus on selling him on a plan to turn your marriage around. You want to convey this message: I want us to have a happy, passionate, romantic marriage where we are both safe. He needs to see a perceived benefit in order to buy the program.

What you don't want to do is go in gang busters and tell him he has to follow some rules. He won't buy it that way.

Yeah, He says i'm really controlling, I'm just trying to understand the scope of my control. I keep telling him, I'm not telling what to do. Thanks for your input, other than that yelling thing that I should never do again, how's the letter?

Dear Husband,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that has made our marriage so unhappy. I know that my ________ have made you unhappy and I am committed to change.

I want us to have a happy fulfilling marriage but I do not believe that can happen until you address and resolve your angry outbursts. It causes me immense stress when my complaints are not addressed or they are addressed with anger.

The situation with your ex-wife has caused me enormous pain and suffering. I am asking that you cut off all contact with your ex-wife and get visitation rights with your children that can include me. It concerns me terribly when you go to her home and I cannot continue to live like that.

In the meantime, I don't feel safe living together under these circumstances and would like to separate. If you would resolve your anger, resolve the visitation issue to my satisfaction and go through a marriage recovery program, I would consider reconciliation. Until that happens, I will have to separate from you and maintain contact via email and phone calls.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

All my love,

Can you use something like this? Just modify to suit your situation?

Yeah. I can pick that apart. Thanks. Really like that paragraph about rebuilding the marriage.

UPDATE: Last night at 1 AM, hubby got me off the couch, where I'd been sleeping since last weekend (when he discovered the email). Hadn't gotten a chance to send him any letter yet. He came down with a list of demands.
We have had this battle of control and demands our entire marriage, I feel controlled and so does he. I'm not sure that either side is rationally correct, I certainly do not feel like I'm controlling him (see above example), and he doesn't feel like he is controling me (or so he says).
He is aggressive (driver, personality) and maybe that is why I feel that I'm controlled, because he doesn't mean to dictate, its just his personality.
Anyway his demands: mostly due to changing stuff like emails (we share a name, and he's always wanted his email address back), changing all email addresses, phone numbers, deleting social media (I guess that's my one Instagram account, I did away with all social media, other chat mediums the last time we went through this, but he has always thought I was lying). Also an agreed to and signed divorce decree that either of us can file within 30 days with written consent. Revisit this all in 2 years.

He knows and always has known all of my passwords. I do not own an electronic device that he can't get into anything and everything he wants. I did this for transparency (now that being said, I can't get into ANY of his devices and never could). He feels that because I work in the tech industry (I guess) that I'm much smarter and am able to hide stuff. I have told him that isn't the truth, but he thinks I'm lying. May I remind you that this whole thing started because i got an email that was ON MY COMPUTER IN FRONT OF HIS FACE....no hiding.

When I suggested him that this was but the tip of the iceberg, we had now taken care of what made him feel better for my transgressions (more comfortable?), that the problem of the fact our marriage isn't working still exists. This is his go to, don't do it, but I'm not going to work on our marriage, so its just same miserable marriage.

I told him, although I understood these demands and agreed to them, but these were simply not demands, but fail safes to make him feel better. That i was not going to live in a marriage where control and dictation are the way we communicate. SO how do I go from this to making the marriage work. He did say if he sees things working, he MIGHT get on board. THIS ISN'T a one sided marriage, we BOTH need to agree on changes. I just feel like I'm not in the position to make suggestions.

We had a talk last night and I was very careful to not use any Love busters. When he got heated and walked out, I thanked him for coming back. When he said stop, I stopped the conversation. No yelling, no screaming, no nothing. I think he doesn't see this as sticking, but its a step in the right direction.

so how do I get him on board.

Great start, well done.

How do you get him on board with the programme? As long as he is not having an affair, meeting his top romantic needs and avoiding love busters is the way Lead by example. As you say, you are not in a position to make suggestions so don't.

Follow the MB rules. You have to entice him back into the marriage.

The issue with this is that your husband does not know how to save a marriage. We gave you a plan to do that, and you need to drive that deal home.

I am very concerned with the comments you made above, though, and I am sure it bothers him too. Having passwords is not transparency to anything. Having your passwords does not protect him when you delete emails, texts, applications he is not aware of.

Saying "this whole thing started with an email that was on your computer in front of his face" sort of misses the point and seems to minimize the problem. Does that mean there was nothing wrong with the email? Is he a lunatic?

I see a lot of justifying and minimizing rather an approach to finding solutions that would make him safe.


So let him know that you are willing to work on the marriage together. Send him the letter and give him a chance to get on board. if he won't get on board, you need to separate. Go read this article and come back and lets talk: When to Call It Quits - Part 1

That is true about him now knowing how to save a marriage. When I conceded (with good reason, because I really do want to make the changes and work this out) and said, that's great, but I have demands ("if we are calling them that" too). Because the problems in our marriage are much bigger and deeper than this issue. I'm not excusing my behavior at all but it is only part of the problem. My demands (again using his term, I tried to explain to him that "demands" leads to a culture of control, which is the major factor of strife in this marriage", that I prefer to think of it as negotiations (that I can't negotiate) were that he actually commit to working on this, not making demands like last time and not striving for change (and what little change was ineffective).

I've got an appointment with a therapist today. He's just afraid that I'm not in it other than "knee jerk reaction" and I need to show him that I really am in it for the long haul, but that I can't do this alone.

A marriage takes 2 people and we need buy in from both.

and I'm trying to find solutions that will make him feel safe....we just can't seem to come to an agreement. I have provided him with access at anytime to anything, and I'm not trying to minimize. i've asked and the answer right now it to change everything.....

I would send him the letter we discussed and make plans to separate if he won't get on board. This has to be a 2-way street.

What are you going to therapy for? They are a disaster to marriages.

Then do that. You should keep brainstorming to find solutions that make him feel safe. Stop, stop, stop saying there is complete transparency. THERE IS NOT! That should just scare the hell out of him.

A password will not protect anyone from anything because you can delete everything when he is not looking. You can install apps and delete them in 2 seconds flat.

that is true. That is exactly his point. hence the reason i'm willing to do what he says, no negotiations. Jump....OK, how high. I just need to put the plan in front of him. I ordered the book yesterday, I need a new printer cartridge, I can print out some resources from this site.

I'm not brainstorming anything, I'm reacting. I'm OK with reacting because I need him to feel safe and I can't tell him what he needs to feel safe, only he can tell me that.

So when I go put something in front of him to say...here's where we start, what do you suggest? Emotional needs survey? Joint negotiations? I mean we can lay in bed and read the book together when I get the book, but with the holidays, that might be a while.

Are you willing to give up your job? You very likely need to never be on another computer unless he is sitting right next to you.

You'll need to give up your smart phone.

Have you ended your friendships with your male friends?

This:

You can certainly take precautions that will make him safe, regardless.