I am sorry you think you have wasted your time, you have not. You already have me on a different path. If you think that is a waste, I am sorry.

I have read every post, though they come in alot faster than mine are, and seem to come in only after a refresh so I might seem behind in my responses. For instance, two of your posts came in only after I refreshed 3 separate times, and they were from earlier in the conversation.

I thought that was why you came here and asked for advice in the first place? Is it not? I don't mind questions, but these are not questions; your posts are you telling US your own personally devised plan. You are blogging Plan BearRising and completely ignoring the posts you have received.

What is the point of that?

I am sorry too and hope it was not a waste.

You are wrong, I am trying to formulate a plan based on advice on my situation, now that I got my books in the mail and have started the process of learning the MB program and understanding the principles so that I do not implement incorrectly.

According to the first article linked, I am only on step 1 - working on the LBs, identifying and filling out questionare. I havent done a proper Plan A - just my attempt with out knowing what I was actually doing, which I will start immediately, and will continue to improve on as I get through the books I bought so that I could do this right. I am reading the Love Busters article you linked to me, its a quicker list than the book - so hopefully I will be able to eliminate all of them by using the information there.

You are saying 3 weeks with immediately telling him to move out, I am saying 6 weeks - 2 to get my LBs under control, and then 1 to begin proper Plan A and tell him he needs to either do MB or move out with in 3 weeks .

I have asked questions several times, because I am trying to get this all straight in my head. I have specifically addressed you and explained what my concerns where and where I am struggling with my on concepts of promises and feelings of worry. I took your advice there as well.

I have to go to bed now, but will for sure be back in the morning, maybe things will be clearer for me then.

I came here initially wondering how to do a Plan A until August.... How can you say I am not taking your advice? I am not as familiar with this as you - of course I want to understand it better to avoid doing something totally wrong. Not sure where you are getting that I am here to just blog... My "personally devised plan" is based on Dr. Harley saying to have a plan in place. Even his example Ellen took a YEAR before she even went to Plan A to get everything in place. I also need to get things in place to protect myself when/if Plan B becomes my reality. I need to secure my finances, secure assets, and a few other things that need to be addressed before I would feel comfortable "dropping the bomb" so to speak. Everything is intermixed, and if this were to go bad, he could do great harm to me if he chose. My plan also takes into account the work I need to do for that as well. I didnt think I needed to express that - thought it would be assumed.

My husband isnt physically abusing me, nor has he had an affair, or is in an affair. He is still treating me quite well actually. So I am in no danger where I need an immediate removal.

I also think I am going to sign up and see if I can get direct calls with Dr. Harley - it would be worth the cost to have a session with him.

If you feel I am wasting your time, thats really too bad, as I think its obvious I have taken your advice quite seriously and am applying it in the best way I can at 11pm at night (for me) after working all day and feeilng pretty emotional after the shock of my husband saying he still wanted to leave me, when things were looking so good.

We are not ignorant of how Dr Harley's advice would apply to your situation. We have read it clearly and understand.

If your H is not willing to work on the M and meet your ENs and avoid LBers, do POJA, take you out on dates, etc, he needs to go, period.

It is really that simple.

There are so many problems here that I don't think Dr Harley would have much hope for your M.

~ started as an affair
~ lived together before M
~ your H is a freeloader/renter
~ your H has a SSL
~ your H is not willing to meet your ENs or provide extraordinary care for you or eliminate his lovebusters
~ your H has continuously tried leaving you from the beginning of the relationship
~ there are no children and not a good marital history (motivations for people to change their behavior - which is a hard thing to do)
~ sounds like your H uses you for financial support
etc

You are free to write to Dr Harley on the radio show to see if his advice will differ from what you have received here but I doubt that it would. He will not have much sympathy for your H needing to live with you because he cannot finacially support himself, I can tell you that right now.

I would NOT waste money on coaching sessions.

One of the biggest mistakes women tend to make is thinking they have to do a perfect Plan A before going to Plan B. And, if they messed up somewhere in Plan A, they should reset the clock and start over.

Your Plan A has been good enough. You don't need to start over to do it "properly."

How should I ask him to leave, if i were to do it today? How do I do Plan A after that? This is what I cant seem to get my head wrapped around. I thought I would have a better idea on the best way to do it after getting through the books - you guys say I need to act immediately. I feel very off balance doing something I am not sure that I am doing correctly.

I know you guys say that childhood abuse is a distraction, and I dont disagree, but the effects are very real. The nightmares he has are very real, the disorders he has (borderline dementia) are very real. He thinks that to work on our marriage he has to deal with that, and he is scared to deal with that.

My thoughts on how to tell him we need to separate are to explain I love him, that I want to have a fulfilling marriage with him, that the way to do it is to put aside the past, focus only on the future and present, learn how to quit hurting eachother by LBs. I would then tell him that this is what I want to do, and if he wants to do it with me, then I would like to start the MB program. If he says he really doesnt want to do that, I will just tell him I understand, I love him very much, and that he needs to work on being out of the house with in 4 weeks.

I am sure he will be VERY angry and will make being around him hard. But I will plan A as best as I can, being thoughtful and trying not LB at all.

I suspect he will immediately leave, but really - you guys are right. If that is what he wants, then he should leave and go do what he wants, and let me move forward in my life to find happiness. I am re-reading Pinnacle's thread over today so that I can get encouragement that I am doing the right thing.

Please advise on the best way to "drop the bomb" so to speak. He is home from work today, so it seems a good time to do it.

SuzieQ - seeing that quick little list really peeled off some of the fog layers in my eyes. Its sometimes hard to see the root truth of the issue when he is actually doing very good at being kind an doing the work on LBs and meeting my needs (other than SF). I am probably also a bit brainwashed and trained to view the bare minimum and crumbs as a feast of affection though.

No threats, no educating him, just keep this simple and clear.

So basically you have to become the perfect wife before he will stop abusing you (stop his love busters)?

Do you realize that's the classic definition of an abusive marriage?

This is why MelodyLane and everybody else are trying to light a fire under you and get you going. They know what will fix that for you. Listen to them!

Thankyou Prisca - that is for sure a problem I have. I get really worried that I make a mistake and ruin things. I feel like I did that with my late Ex, and feel like had I known about MB then, we would still be together and he would still be alive. Even though we were truly wonderful friends after the split - during our marriage he was absolutely amazing. I should never settle for less than his example on how to be treated.

I also think my guilt about his death keeps me from giving up, thinking that I need to exhaust all avenues before going Plan B. I have a very hard time because I feel very responsible for things I probably should not.

I dont think my husband is a bad person, but I do think he is very self centered. He has a hard time seeing outside his own warped reflection. I had hoped that he would learn to let go of the past so that we COULD have a great future - but after all this, I think that I am wrong.

I am very very sad about it - and I know the next steps will be extremely hard, but I also know there will be good times in it as well.

Anyway - I am not going to worry about doing the perfect plan A . that is another one of my own issues I need to let go of. I truly have done a good job being a supportive, loyal, understanding and loving wife. My LBs are pretty minor, as I have always been scared to hurt him.

SO - I just need some help on how to actually DO this. What to say, how to say it - what NOT to say.... I am so nervous that my stomach is in knots. I am still scared I am doing things wrong, but I need to learn to trust those who can see this from the outside.

Thankyou Marcos - I have been told many times that he is emotionally abusive (even by our marriage counselor). Its not intentional abuse, but it is the kind that comes from Freeloader ideals when they are with a buyer.

Living_Well - thank you as well. I guess I just want him to know there is another way. He knows nothing about MB at all.

Is that what I need to save for the Plan B letter?

BTW, this is not normal. It is not healthy. It is certainly not attractive.

You can quit saying that, because it is just an irrelevant fact to distract yourself. The only relevant question is will he stop abuse (love busters) or not.

My abuse wasn't intentional, either.

I would encourage you to listen to my wife, Prisca, who along with MelodyLane and the others here is trying to light a fire under you to follow the plan that will end the abuse.

If he's commiting AO's or any other lovebusters, set his stuff out on the door step.

You have to quit being so nice. It is clear your H walks all over you and uses your kindness against you.

Marcos - I absolutely am going to do that.

Abuse doesnt matter if its intentional or not. There is not excuse for it.

He is already working on elimintating AOs (and has pretty much gone from daily AOs to none in the past 3 weeks), and has been working on treating me with kindness and consideration. he goes out of his way to do things for me.

I was shocked when he said he still wanted to move out, as things had progressed so much that I believed he was committed to staying and continue working on things.

I guess thats why I am confused. I wasnt sure if I should introduce MB to him to show him that we CAN have what we want (and not have to go through dealing with CSA issues to do it) and give him a chance to decide on if he wanted to try the program or not. Since things had been going pretty well. (Even making plans for fall vacations etc). I honestly thought we were on the right path.

But it seems that is not the opinion of the experienced and knoweldgable folks here. And I respect the advice given, and have taken it to heart, and am trying to get the nerve up to apply it promptly.

Prisca - you said exactly what my cousin said. Almost word for word - and she is not aware of MB at all (but she has a happy marriage - so she probably practices the principles naturally).