Update,
Last week she went back to work for three days. Last night she confessed that she called him - and that they have agreed no contact. I know this isn't ideal - I have no proof, and there is no NC letter. We did end up spending a good portion of last night with me reading the first two chapters of surviving an affair to her. She is sleeping now, but wants me to keep reading to her as she sees herself as Sue in it so well. Her biggest hang up was learning to trust me again. (due to my AOs - there hasn't been one since before the 24th of January, I discovered this sight which has helped me id and attack my other LBs which she agrees it is nice to see are gone, but is apprehensive that the LBs may return - my main goal in life is to end them for good.

I will preempt and say yes, red flags - as I have no way of proving if there is contact while she is at her office, short of slipping a VAR into her purse - which after reading another thread here seems risky, I am not sure what I can do. She offered the info for the call voluntarily- I didn't ask, also last Thursday night (so I am guessing the night after the call) we spent the night talking and she had a break down - is it too optimistic to hope this is her starting to grieve? We spent last Friday together, and I see that as (hopefully) the start of the improvement - I started saying I see a light at the end of the tunnel from that day on. But I hope it isn't attached to a train, after last night, I am optimistic that it is a light only - no train - might be the road runner . But I expect a few bumps.

Things have been on an upswing since then. She recognizes the fog, and can see a lot of herself in Sue. I am looking at a trust but verify situation. I have no proof for an exposure - other than what she told me. But I wonder, should I meet with the OM? Let him know that I am aware of the situation, and watching? Remember, WW has confided in me, I haven't been able to dig up, or catch them, so an exposure would be pointless.


Last point(s). Reading SAA together, is this a good, or bad idea? She is really enjoying it, and we stop after relevant points and talk, it seems to be working and I feel it is helping, We are working through EMs now - she is reluctant to do surveys - a) for language issues, b) fatigue and concentration, but open to talking about them, and discussing what EMs each of us have. So I am thinking of doing the survey with her - ask, and write down her responses.

When we get to chapter 5 (or 6) on how affairs should end, I hope that will help her understand my position more. Am I off on this?

And finally last question - SAA is it available in French? I think I found it in Spanish, and I found a HNHN in French, but no SAA, am I just not looking in the right place(s).


Finally - I really do appreciate all of your time, comments, and guidance. Both directed towards me, and what was directed at others, I found inspiration, and hope from the people here. WW knows that I have an online support group (that is how I explained it to her) and she is thinking it might be good to come and post. If that becomes stronger, I believe I can have this thread hidden for a while?

Thank you

Why didn't a NC letter be sent?

How can you close that hole of her calling him from work?

This started last night, I am getting push back on the NC letter - again yes a red flag, that is why I am hoping as we get to the chapter in SAA about how an affair should end it will make sense to her.

As for the hole at work - as mentioned short of a VAR in her purse, not much I can do there. She still has her work BB, and she doesn't carry her purse with her when she is in the office. I was referring to the "Caught Snooping" thread earlier for me that would be a risk, if found. Probably for limited return as she walks in, and puts her purse in her desk in the AM, and takes it out at night, or to get change for coffee. Her BB goes with her in a separate bag, just large enough for that, short of a button size VAR that I can plant on her....

SAA is not available in French afaik. Love busters is.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...wflat&Main=172963&Number=2889002

Thank you - I have LoveBusters in English - that is what I need. I think this should be a mandatory engagement gift. Every father should give it to his son. I know I will.

Here is your evidence:

Have you exposed to OM's BW yet?

Minor obstacle. I know where they live (for now) - the house is sold - that I have confirmed if they are moving to separate locations, or together....I have not been able to determine.

But I haven't been able to obtain her name - I don't think she is on FB at least not with OM - I went through all 50 of his friends, no links that indicate a potential wife for him.

I have called the house - the answering machine is just a generic message - so no name. Did not leave a message as the OM, or the kids could here it first.

I drove by last week-end, knocked on the door, no answer. Do I risk meeting the OM, or the kids before exposing to her?
Thanks.

* I find reluctance to offer help in these threads as I am unsure if my own struggles conflict with the advice of veteran members.

From all I have learned, you will want to do all you can to alert other BS, before confronting OM. If you do not, he will do all he can to spin the affair and/ or take steps to keep you from contacting her.
I would suggest, if you have not already done so, to also look through the photos on OM and OM's "friends" pages. Quite often, those in the photos will be tagged or mentioned within the description or comments. If you find any photos of OM with a woman, that is likely her.

I mentioned recently in another thread, I would also suggest a visit to spokeo .com. Armed with only a ph#, for 99c I was able to discover OM's name, address, family members, and last known marital status.
( I then easily found those family members on FB )

If you find it impossible to discover other BS, OM needs to be confronted regardless. If this is the case, I would do what you had already planned. Knock on the door. If any other person answers, ask "Is mom home?"... or "Mrs. So and so?". But, go there with the purpose and fully prepared to be face to face with no one other than OM.

Before knocking, make note of cars in front of house. Take photos of them. If the result is confronting OM, you will know what car needs to be gone, if you decide to return.

Before knocking, keep in mind this POS is a coward and a cheater. What I did was first ask if OM is who I already knew he was. This let him know I was there for no other purpose than to find him personally. I then asked if he knew whom I was. This would give me an idea if I was already known to him through WW.

Without ever giving my name, I stated "I am WW's husband".
No matter what attitude you are given at the beginning, you will see a change in demeanor once you state whom you are.

Try to have someone with you to stand back. If or if not you are able to have someone with you, in any event, have your phone video running.

PTSD,
Thank you for responding, I have to eat crow on this one - I do some of this for work - I found the OM easily enough - I have his photo - and confirmed who he is. I know his children, and their names, oddly enough they do not seem to have an online presence. The OM has a grand total of 5 photos on his FB page - all of them are of his children. None of him - other than his profile photo, and no women. He has 50 friends, I have gone through them and eliminated any women - either married to someone else, or far too young / old to be the mother of these children. I have the cars - I know his, and I know hers - both were in the driveway when I stopped in (at least I think I know which is which). I have the plate numbers and makes and models of each. As for worries about him - none, he could answer the door chewing on a vegemite sandwich and it wouldn't matter to me. I tried out spokeo -only seems to work for the US - his home number is listed on Canada411 - just his name - that is how I actually found him originally - his address on Canada411 matched a photo taken of his son in front of his house (street view). I already listened to the VM, and only the generic auto greeting.

Also, to share -
Some FB searches the might be helpful:
To help find the individual (OM or OW)
Replace Firstname Lastname and the City, Province_State with the appropriate information run this, find the list of possible.. In my case there were two, pretty simple to narrow down.

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/Firstname Lastname/users-named/intersect/str/City, Province_State/pages-named/residents/present/intersect

Once you find the person and you get the FB user id - (just hover over the profile photo it should appear in the bottom left corner use these searchs (replace the ### with the id number):
https://www.facebook.com/search/#####/photos-of
Should help out when searching for photos the OM (or OW) has been tagged in.
A few others:
Relative search again replace the ### with the id number
https://www.facebook.com/search/###/relatives

Future event invitations:
https://www.facebook.com/search/####/events
Employer
https://www.facebook.com/search/####/employers

ML,
Thank you - challenge - he lives across the river (in another city to be specific) not easy to drive by without causing the WW to ask where I was. But I will when I can.

As for calling, I am, just don't want to make someone nervous by leaving a phone number (call display) that might again cause questions. So I am trying to call from different numbers - pay phones - there are a few, and around. I actually don't own a cell, so no chance of just calling from there and blocking my number.

Try and go by at a time they are home.


You can disguise your # using *67.

Thank you, I will try calling - now that I can do so easier.

Good man!

MelodyLand,
Regular calls to the OMs house- no answer - I will keep trying.

On another note, I think I am making headway.

Last week-end I knew would be a bit of a test. We ended up with a fully booked Saturday. Tickets in city a few hours away for a baseball game (I hate driving in this city) at 13:00 and tickets for a show in a city closer to home at 20:00. Originally WW was going to the game, but then when we discovered the double booking we decided she wouldn't (I didn't want her to miss the concert) this was before d-day.

A week or so ago, she decided she would go to the game. Which I appreciated. She is more comfortable getting around in the other city, and I saw it as a test (no LB on a day trip in a city that I am not comfortable in - btw I passed!).

Since then we have spent more time together, and she has been more receptive to spending UA time. She has initiated spontaneous physical contact (I have huge needs for this) and nightly/morning cuddles. I had asked her to take a bath together on Tuesday and she agreed, although I felt that it was tough for her. Last night she invited me to take a bath with her and she was much more comfortable, this is something that we would do together regularly before d-day.

All great. This AM after she snuggles in she says she want to SF but she wants to only think of me.

I am all in favour of that, the last time we did have a SF event she admitted through tears afterwards that the OM popped into her mind during it - kind of a blow.

So, no rush, as I am a long view type of guy, heck I set a plan of several weeks from our very first date to when I planned our first kiss (she short-circuited that plan).

Question - any ideas on how I can help on this front?

I mentioned before that the OM's name is still mentioned in her office, and this is a trigger - she acknowledges this. I am thinking of sending her a photo of me (the only one I think I look good in) and suggesting that when someone mentions his name she looks at the photo, and repeats my name to herself, does this make sense? Any other ideas? Thank you.

I would ask your wife to stop talking about the OM to you. That is a huge lovebuster for her to say something so disgusting to you when making love. It is completely unnecessary and only serves to set you up for major resentment.

Allen, I was also reading some of your posts, did you put the VAR in her purse like you had discussed?

MelodyLane - I agree on busting it - I think it already has for the most part - just the memories that remain on her part. I see her changing actions the last few days as a positive. My question was how to help her with the memories - the withdrawal?

I do not believe she has had sex with him. She had, had no contact with him since last fall - with the exception of the phone call she told me about (which was three weeks ago now). Prior to that the contact was mostly email, or phone.

I will find away to ask about the possibility of STDs without making an LB. When we first dated, we both were tested out of respect for each other. I could suggest that we both get tested again, it might remove some of the sting of asking.

Agreed that she shouldn't bring him up. In the case described she did it as a confession and I let that slide with no LB on my part. This happened about 3 weeks ago.

No, after another thread on here that has since been wiped, I decided that a VAR in the purse would be a large risk. I have one set up in the house, and the computers are set to capture sound, but the purse would capture little, and increase the risk of the investigation being discovered. As mentioned, she takes her "purse" (actually a small day pack) to work and throws it into her coat locker for the day, so it would capture nothing with a risk of being discovered. She doesn't drive a vehicle back or forth to work (a neighbor drives) so I can't really place a VAR in her (the neighbor's) car.

I get the impression from you that even with a NC agreement (I know there was no letter) that without exposure I must assume that there is still something going on. Even if all the other indicators are that the affair has ended. Am I reading you correctly?

The VAR used on that thread was instrumental in that BH getting the truth, though. It was a resounding success. The fact that it was discovered (the first incident I have seen in 16 yrs on this forum) does not mitigate the success he experienced. Without the VAR he would have never known the truth and the affair could have dragged on without detection for years.

Is there no way you can conceal a VAR in a deep pocket in her purse without being detected? Sure, you don't want to get caught, but that is not the end of the world. Even so, you don't want to get caught because obviously that ruins the objective of spying.

Your situation is very fuzzy and so much does not add up. I am sure there is/has been many things you don't know about.

What is your indicator that the affair has ended? You don't know what she is doing at work and are entirely dependent upon what she chooses to tell you. This is one of the reasons I wanted you to expose this to the OMs wife. She may have a line of sight you don't that could help you find the truth.

As far as exposure, that should be done regardless of the status of the affair. Even if it is over for 20 years and you just found out, it should still be exposed.