Hello everyone,

Just looking for some clarification on what actions constitutes as an angry outburst and how to go about resolving it.

My wife and I are coming on 15 years of marriage, 3 kids, one affair on spouses part 9 years ago.
My wife has a type A personality, if things are not done to her liking or standard she starts complaining, criticize, then yells, then adamant about doing it herself.
No matter how hard the kids or I try to please it's never done right. It's ridiculous. I am depleted in the love bank and try to avoid her at all costs. I hate that my kids have to go thru this daily. She does not see the damage this is doing.
She admits that it's her fault and that it's nobody else is doing sarcastically and then rants and raves.


Please help.

Have you told her of the damage this is doing? What have you said to her about this, and how often have you said it?

Yes - Most times my spouse starts ranting I ask what is the issue and try to fix or address the problem. There are times when she she gets on the kids that I ask her to please tone in down or change her approach to get a better response. This just infuriates her more and start talking to herself and storms off.
It's not the task that is the issue it's the criticism and tone.

When you ask her to get help for her anger and go to anger management. What does she say?

For example, last night she asked my 13 year old son to re-arrange some of the 'junk' on one of the floors as to do for the next day.
When I got home I told her to avoid issues that I will do it with him when I get home just so my son doesn't have to hear the criticism of what he didn't do right. She got upset and stormed off talking to herself and said I'll guess I'll do it myself.

She says she will but never follows thru. She talks herself into saying it's other people issues. 'Why do I have to numb my pain when it's someone else's fault' is a response I get.

I'm trying to find out whether you have addressed this with her OUTSIDE of the heat of the moment.

Have you ever raised your complaint, respectfully and without making demands or threats, and without getting angry? Have you ever tried to tell her what you said earlier - that her behaviour is affecting your love bank balance, and it's also having a bad effect on the kids? (Not that it's having a bad effect there and then and that she'd get a better result if she stopped shouting, but that it's having a bad effect over the long term. That it is hurting your kids, and that it needs to stop.)

Actually, there is a case for your acting independently to protect the health and safety - crucially of your kids, but also of yourself. There is a case for demanding that this abusive behaviour stop, because you will have to remove yourself and the the kids from your home if it does not. But, as you can see, it would be better to have a conversation with her first, to see if she will work on her anger issues. Have you ever done that?

SugarCane.
Honestly I rarely raise my voice, make demand or threats to my spouse. I feel bad that she feels this way and try to accomplish what she asks to please her. Thinking this will make her 'happy'
When she gets in her mood I tend to leave her alone because she is not thinking or acting rationally.

I have spoken to her maybe a handful of times in the past about her approach and behavior outside of the heat of the moment. She gets visibly sad, starts crying and shuts down. Then I feel like the jerk.
In the past after these conversations she started to hit herself or threatened downing sleeping pills and have actually followed thru with the threat.

Her own teenage nieces try to avoid her because of the lectures and criticism she throws on them.

Very hard to get thru to her.

From her perspective, she is trying to raise your son to learn to help around the house, and not to do a half-hearted job (two things I wish I could teach my own son to do). You arrived home, and countermanded her strategy. Raising kids to do their share willingly, and to learn to live independently or with a spouse in future, involves long-term, consistent practice, and it won't work if you try to do things that stop your son from learning on his own. Why shouldn't a 13 year-old be expected to do a decent job of tidying up, on his own?

So, from her point of view, without asking her, you undermined her child-rearing strategy. You decided that your way of dealing with the situation was better than her way, which was to expect your son to do a decent job by himself. You also implied (or stated) a disrespectful judgement of her; that whatever your son did, she would criticise his efforts as not being good enough. Have you read Dr Harley's work on Disrespectful Judgements? Do you know what these are, and why they are very harmful to a marriage?

I am not saying this to justify her anger; there is no justification for that, and it needs to stop. No problems can be dealt with if angry behaviour lists. Anger is the single most important issue to resolve in your marriage. As I stated above, if it doesn't stop immediately, you need to remove the kids from the living situation.

In this post, I am only dealing with your seeming lack of awareness of why your approach was wrong (not why it justified her anger; it did not). I would say that, as a couple, you have a lot of work to do in negotiating and agreeing on your kids; what is expected of them, how that should be communicated to them, and what should be done when they do not meet your expectations. These, and other issues, should be negotiated using the Policy of Joint Agreement. Have your read about this? Have you ever used it in your marriage?

I read your original thread, in which your wife's affair was discussed. I see that you moved house, which is to be commended. Many people on this forum dig their heels in and refuse to take this step, with the result that the marriage has no chance of recovery.

However, what other changes did you make in your marriage? Is your wife generally unhappy and grumpy with you and the kids? Why is that, do you think?

Are you saying that she has followed through with taking sleeping pills? What happened? How was she saved? What psychiatric follow up was offered to her?

Your wife sounds ill, and in need of medical attention.

This is a very poor strategy, and will only result in more of the same - with your resentment added into the situation.

I think you need urgently to speak to Dr Harley, preferably on the radio show, where you can have a long conversation with him.

When you were here before, people rarely recommended getting in touch with Dr Harley, but we do it all the time now. He will provide advice for free, and he will work with you for as long as you need it (for free). If you don't want to appear on the radio show, I believe he will speak to you privately by phone, and certainly he will speak privately by email. You could have an email read out on the show without appearing yourself, or you could keep your situation completely private (although listeners will benefit from hearing your advice).

If Brainy is reading, she will post the email address shortly (cheers, Brainy!)

From her perspective, she is trying to raise your son to learn to help around the house, and not to do a half-hearted job (two things I wish I could teach my own son to do). You arrived home, and countermanded her strategy. Raising kids to do their share willingly, and to learn to live independently or with a spouse in future, involves long-term, consistent practice, and it won't work if you try to do things that stop your son from learning on his own. Why shouldn't a 13 year-old be expected to do a decent job of tidying up, on his own?

-I have no issues assigning tasks to the kids. I only ask to be very detailed in the what exactly to be done. I am sorry I wasn't clear. The 'junk' asked to reorganize was 15 years of stuff. I think it was too important to have reorganized with supervision or detailed instructions where everything should go.
My approach is if the chores are not done in a proper way he is restricted with the fun stuff until it is done properly. I don['t have to yell or criticize. I rather instruct or teach so there is no miscommunication.


So, from her point of view, without asking her, you undermined her child-rearing strategy. You decided that your way of dealing with the situation was better than her way, which was to expect your son to do a decent job by himself. You also implied (or stated) a disrespectful judgement of her; that whatever your son did, she would criticize his efforts as not being good enough. Have you read Dr Harley's work on Disrespectful Judgements? Do you know what these are, and why they are very harmful to a marriage?
- I appreciate the honesty and I want to be sure I address the issue of disrespectful judgement. Please understand the criticism is everyday occurrence. She asks the room to be clean, vacuumed, lawn cut..and it is accomplished not only to my standard but other elderly folks in the house but there is always something that was not done properly to her standard. She gets upset and yells. Breaking him down. Again I am only going by history. But I will learn not to bring up her approach on child rearing.

SugarCane, Again I do appreciate the honesty and I want to make sure I am not lovebusting. How do I avoid the disrespectful judgments in my own nature?

Other than having a another kid ..no other changes. My perspective is she is generally unhappy and grumpy. I wish I knew why.

SugarCane,
She threatened but exaggerated the downing. She admitted she needed but help then talked herself out of it saying it was other people's fault.

Thank you. I have reached out and look forward in addressing this issue.

I agree. That is why I am here :-)

Great let us know when you hear back.

The situation was discussed briefly on the radio yesterday. I am hoping get on the radio program a week from now.

In the interim, anyone has any suggestions on how to overcome disrespectful judgement on my part?
I don't want my suggestions to sound like a disrespectful judgement.
For example, when she says "I don't know how to handle the kids" or a situation that is frustrating her and I suggest an alternative or different perspective. Is that considered a disrespect judgement?
Honestly most days is like walking on eggshells or landmines. I try to be proactive with certain situations just not to trigger anger or frustration but am I being disrespectful for even thinking that she will get angry even though based on past experiences ended up that way ?

I can honestly only remember a day or two in the 15 years of marriage where I honestly felt safe..then all of a sudden a blow up. Just hard to be trusting when it's volatile like that.

It would depend on how you said it.

For instance, if she just frustratingly said 'I am so frustrated with (name of child) today, he won't listen to me at all." And you said, 'here is how you should handle it..' That is a disrespectful judgement. Anytime you try to tell her how she 'should' do something, it is disrespectful. And perhaps in that case, she was just trying to vent to you about her day, and not get advice or have you try and fix it for her. I know as a SAHM, I do that, and do not want my H to tell me how I should handle it.

If she is asking you for your opinion on how to handle (child), it is ok to give an opinion. You could say, 'how would you feel about doing xyz?' This is not a judgmental statement of what she should be doing, but rather comes across as an idea.

Dr Harley focuses a lot on action, not mental state. So for you to feel apprehensive because every time before this your wife has had an AO, is understandable and normal human reaction. How you *act* however is something you can control.

But once again, until she gets her anger under control it is hard to focus on anything else. You can clean up all of your DJ's but she will still have AO's, because nothing you do is causing them, she is choosing to have them.