This is foggy thinking. In so many ways.

Your kids already have a wayward father. The last thing they need are two fogged out parents.

Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Obviously that would just make this situation worse. But going through this definitely makes you more aware of your emotional needs and the power of them.

I know I'm probably going to get scolded for even asking about this since its the product of breaking my Plan B, but I'm so curious, yes for my own situation but for WSs in general, at some point does the guilt and shame have an impact? WH got emotional when i saw him talking about the guilt and shame he feels every time he comes to the house to get the kids, and i can see it. He has lost almost 40 lbs and the shame is visible on him. Yet, he is not stopping what he is doing. I don't understand why anyone would want to live like that. He actually had the nerve to say to me "do you know how f--- my situation is?" And said that OW is a mess (now she is no longer getting her cake and eating it too). I'm not getting my hopes that it could be the beginning of the end but do like to hear that at she is a mess and motivates me to control my own emotions and do better with Plan B.

Is there some cycle that all WS go through, the way we do with a cycle of grief? My fear is the cycle with WSs is that they do feel the guilt and shame, but ironically, it is the AP that soothes them by telling them how great they are and they are not a bad person after all, and this just repeats over and over again.

It's the same cycle of guilt and grief an average heroin addict goes through. An average heroin addict also ruins family members who feel sympathetic to/sorry for them and keep letting them in, only to find out the addict steals money and valuables.

And until they are clean, they keep going back to the heroin to soothe them.

You are not in Plan B. You are in Plan C.

I noticed that you said you were talking to other single fathers and was not able to respond. Stop doing that. You are right that you are more vulnerable than ever right now, so now is the time to keep your boundaries very HIGH. If you are not divorced you are married, and getting into a relationship would be considered an affair. Not to mention the fact that you are probably the least likely to make good decisions for yourself now than ever before. Boundaries high my friend.

Now, where and how did you even see WH?

Yes I see that now that I should not have been doing that. It made me feel
More confused. I have stopped it. Almost everyone in my life has been encouraging me to date, even my in laws and in my conversation with OW mother she said "it wouldn't hurt to have other men coming around the house, just to give the impression...people always want what they can't have." I think the idea is if WH feels like he is going to replaced it will make him stop. But I know, it won't and it just will mess me up.

I haven't seen WH since the last time I posted about calling out to him when he dropped off the kids a couple weeks ago. I didn't post much about what was said because I know it's "fogbabble" and I shouldn't be trying to analyze it, but ya the guilt and shame comment stuck with me.

That's what I was afraid of and makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

This was not a new contact, part of what was said when I talked to him a couple weeks ago. It will be 2 weeks tomorrow with no contact.

Yes it is so great for you and your children to have strange men, you know the high caliber ones who get involved in messy marital situations, coming around the house

Have you read this and listened to the radio clips in here?
BSs......Plan C is not a Plan

Is he still coming to the house for child exchanges?

Thank you, I will listen to it.

Yes, he is still coming to the house for the exchanges. I know it needs to stop I just havent figured out a solution yet. He has said he is going to get an apartment by mid month (which is now) and then he would not need to come to the house for the exchanges, so part of me is waiting for that to happen. But who knows when or if he will do that. I think him getting an apartment of his own would be truly acknowledging that this is all happening and I think he prefers his fence sitting status. Also, even if he does get an apartment I dont know if I would agree to let him take the kids overnight. On one hand I think he needs to see what its going to be like to have to really care for them by himself, but on the other I dont want him to have them with the state he is in and I dont think it would be good for them to be displaced like that, especially the baby.

So I guess bottom line I need to figure something out. Not easy.

I thought I was having one of my calmest weeks yet, almost 3 weeks no contact with WH no drama....but I saw my sister, my IM yesterday and I mentioned how a lot of people who hear about my situation say my WH is a sex addict and that I did not really think so but believed he is addicted to his affair. She then tells me at the end of July she received a text from WH cellphone at 1 am that said "There is a 3rd woman right now, amac (using my real name) should know. Then attached a picture of a chat history with my WH name and a conversation with someone that has him saying "hehe i'd be happy to oblige" and the other person talking about the kind of hotel her work is putting her up in. Thats its. That conversation was dated a week before the text to my IM, also took place at 1am.

Obviously, the text was from OW on WH cell. I don't know what to do with this information. Clearly she not telling me out of the goodness of her heart, she wants me to know so I'll be done with him. Unbelievable that she still wants him and is still separated from her BH for him as far as I know. And the conversation she sent is odd, like whatever came before the "id be happy to oblige" would have potentially been more incriminating but she did not include that.

I know I shouldn't even know about this, but I do. Part of me wants to reach out to OWBH and ask him what their status is and tell him about this supposed "3rd woman" and should I tell WH parents about this? They too believed he is not a sex addict and he has painted the picture to everyone that he is in love with OW and thats what his struggle is, but clearly he has a compulsion if he is still doing this chatting (if thats all it is).

You should not have heard about this. I know your sister means well, but this is just a meaningless distraction to your healing. You already know he is wayward and he actively sought out this affair. I would assume there is more than one OW frankly, because actively seeking out an affair is what a serial cheater does. But, this is not your concern right now. Let OW worry about the fact that if he does it with you, he'll do it to you. You have a life to build without him.

And why are you always so worried about what your soon to be ex inlaws believe??? Stop trying to convince them he is wrong. He has abondoned his wife and very young children for a married woman, if that isn't wrong enough they already have a poor moral compass.

And this isn't about a 'compulsion.' It is standard serial cheating behavior. Just because he has terrible morals doesn't mean he is a sex addict. It is so common for BS's to want to make sense of their WS reckless disgusting behavior in this way, but that doesn't make it true.

I hadn't been in the mind frame that he was a serial cheater. He admitted to having a pornography addiction and I believed that escalated to his chatting, which escalated to the affair. I had hope that once the affair ended it would end the cycle of addiction. Why does it matter whether its called sex addiction or serial cheating? The actions and results seem to be the same. So I guess there is no hope for my marriage, under either title.

I want to tell my inlaws not to convince them he is wrong, they know he is and have been supportive of me. I want to tell them because regardless of what happens to our marriage I'm bound to this man for life because of my kids and he is gonna need a support system somewhere if there is any hope of him becoming a better man and if they don't know all the facts they can't be helpful to him. I thought we were supposed to expose this kind of stuff.

The thing is, once you go into Plan B, you should no longer be hearing about his wayward behavior. Your focus shifts to your own personal healing. Unless he makes a major turnaround in his attitude and behavior (and it is your IMs job to decipher this based on his actions), assume he is going to act wayward.

I guess you are right that it doesn't matter what label you give to him, at the moment he is absolutely not suitable for marriage. My point was to caution you against trying to find some reason behind his behavior. Most people who want to label their wayward spouse as a sex addict seem to think that is a condition that can be cured. I don't want to see you go down that path.

The reality is he did go out trolling for action and seemingly continues to do so. That is serial cheating behavior, even if you happened to catch him on the first affair. He would have to make more drastic changes to be suitable for recovery than the average affair because of this.

Right now, I want you to stop thinking about what he is doing and who you need to expose this too and start thinking about actually going into Plan B. You have been told this many times. Unless and until he is showing in action that he is ready to meet your requirements, you need to shut him out of your life completely.

Posting to get some motivation. Ive spent the last couple days reading about other peoples experience in Plan B and taking notes on what has been told to others before. It helps because when you see other people breaking their Plan B and the repercussions that follow, it is never a good thing.

My status is pretty much the same. WH was supposed to respond to the divorce last friday, and did not. A divorce attorney who can't be bothered with his own divorce! I'm meeting my attorney on Tuesday, but they don't seem to bothered by his lack of response which is annoying to me. I feel like their should be some consequence to his lack of response but I guess its too early.

He is still coming to the house for the exchanges. Which means he is still couch surfing or he has gotten a place but does not want to take the kids with him which is a possibility.

So, I haven't had contact with him since I spoke to him at the exchange a month ago now, but this week has been rough. I went to wedding in DC last weekend. I was a bridesmaid, I was so worried about not being able to enjoy myself and being an emotional wreck, but I actually had a good time! But coming back to my reality this week has been hard. I had given WH old phone to a friend so I couldn't access it. But I saw her this week and wanted to check his work email to see how much he is getting paid this month. He has been clued in I'm afraid so he changed his Facebook password so I can no longer get into that and I didn't think the work emails would bother me, but when the phone turned on the app find my friends sent an alert and it said "OW is now sharing her location" and the time was 3:00am that morning, on a tuesday! Did not expect that. Shortly after that, I got a call from the Bishop. He was just calling to check up on me but it was hard to talk to him since just seeing his name on my caller ID made me have hope that maybe WH had gone back to see him. Bishop said he came about a month and a half ago when i made the seattle ultimatum, but hasn't been in touch since.

And today at the pickup I looked at the window and saw WH. I don't know why I did it. I know nothing good could come from it, but i did it anyway. I know more evidence that the exchange system needs to be changed but I'm really clueless about what to do. I did think about the babysitter but realized last weekend with my mom here that it actually would be more of a temptation for me. Because my mom was here it REALLY made me want to talk to WH because there was someone to watch the kids. After last time my daughter talked about WH more after seeing us together and I do not want that, so the fact that there is no one else here to watch them during the exchanges has prevented me from doing it. Im afraid with a babysitter I would be tempted to take advantage.

I'm ok most to the time. but a few times a day I get this panic feeling like, this can't be really happening and i have to do something to stop it! is that normal? will is go way? i am on AD's which have helped a bit but things are still pretty hard.

Hi Amac, it's nice to hear from you. I've been wondering how you are doing. Have you had any more thoughts about moving? Even though I have had my own struggles with plan B, I have to say that moving into a new place that is just mine with the kids has been the best possible thing I could have done for helping my personal healing. It does take some effort, but it gives you so much more control of your life and your happiness and really helps get you away from triggers that inadvertently keep you stuck in the WSs drama/crisis.



I used to feel like this just after I threw WH out in Feb. But then I came to understand that what we are doing with plan B IS doing the best possible thing we can do to stop it. Making WSs feel the consequences of their marriage-wrecking actions, and making sure they do not get to have their cake and eat it, is the only way to give them any kind of incentive to wake up. Nothing else has a hope of working.