Just want to point out that the last time you spoke to him, you did not have a babysitter, so this rationalization is ludicrous. You DESPERATELY want to see him which is why you won't find a solution to this problem. You were smart enough to pass the bar so I know you are smart enough to resolve this problem. You just WON'T, probably because you don't want to lose this fix.

How are you handing a 8 month old to him without seeing him?

I put the baby in his carseat and leave him on the porch while my daughter gets WH in the driveway. When he returns them he leaves the baby in the carseat and my daughter at the door and knocks and leaves. I wait a bit to make sure he has left before opening the door. This only on Sundays. On tuesdays and thursdays he picks them up from daycare and drops them off as described. I have only physically had contact with him that 1 time in the 3 months of separation and the only other time i have even seen him is when I looked out the upstairs window yesterday.

I had thought this exchange would be somewhat temporary because WH should be getting a place to live where he can take the kids with him. But since it has been this long and he appears to be getting worse, I don't think I would let him take the kids overnight even if he had his own place. I'm considering proposing an agreement through my attorney that we keep the current custody status the same until next year regardless of his living situation. That way the kids have some stability and I'm not always waiting for things to change. Thats really making things easy for him though, but I don't know who he would expose them to so its probably the best thing for them. If he agrees to that then there will be more incentive for me to find a solution to this exchange.

Why not stop the Sunday visitations and stick to daycare only? This isn't good for you or the kids to have this set up. It puts your baby at risk and, as you have discovered, leads to Plan B breaks on your part. Just end it and be done with all this drama.

Is there a 24/7 daycare in your area that can manage the exchanges?

Once again, I am alarmed that you won't fix this problem. I have to assume you either a) don't take it seriously or b) really want to keep the contact with him.

No 24/7 daycares. I don't want to have contact with him. I admit I have those panic moments where I do but thats not all the time. The issue is to solve it means finding and paying for somewhere to do the exchange without me, and that is a lot of hassle that I keep postponing because I keep waiting for WH to get his own apartment so I won't have to worry about it anymore, but....

I just came for my lawyers office. They called WH last week to see the status of his response to the divorce. They said he mentioned reconciliation and said he was going to reach out to my sister this weekend, but "not to tell him because he didn't want to get my hopes up." F-U man! You should be begging to come back. I haven't heard anything from my sister so as predicted either he did not reach out or did and has not met my conditions. Regardless, I want to move forward but I'm in a bad position. Since he is not responding I could get a default divorce but my lawyer says here in CA all property would be split 50/50 which I do not want! That would mean he gets his interest in the house and 50% of my pension. He has told me many times that he would never take money from me or go after my pension so I know that getting an agreement with him is my only hope of a favorable resolution.

My plan is to ask him to give me the house, agree to waive all spousal support from me, waive any rights to my pension, and give me all the money that is in my bank account. As well as leave the custody situation as is until next year and to start paying me child support since he sees the kids about 5% of the time. My attorney thinks I'm asking for the moon but I think since he is in the fog and feels guilty he will give me most of what I want, just not sure what he will say about the house. However, I know if i send this through my attorney he won't even consider it. I know this is not going to be liked, but I think I have to write him an email along with agreement. I need him to know its not out of vindictiveness but a plea to give me and our children some peace and stability. This never knowing when he will want to see the kids more or what I'm gonna do is unsettling, and i think by saying we can review the custody status next year it will make him more agreeable and give him all the time he wants to enjoy himself right now.

If he agrees to this then I know this situation will be in play for the next few months and I will come up with a solution to the exchange.

Hi Chalk,

So glad to read you got OC back! I do not know how you have survived this far. That is my biggest fear right now, that WH will impregnate someone. If that happened I think I might move But moving would be a big feat for me. I'm an attorney and here in the states you have to take an exam to practice in each state that takes months of studying for and is difficult. The only place i would move to is out of state closer to my parents. And I have a good job that I love that pays well with great retirement so it would be so hard to give up. I also have a good support network of friends where I'm at. Surprisingly my house doesn't trigger me at all, I think because we only moved here a year ago and WH was already checking out i don't associate him much with it, and I have worked so hard to make it a nice home for my kids I really don't want to leave it.

Its a very tough spot we are in. I think everyone around us wants us have this clear epiphany that we no longer love or want our WHs and to think life is better without them. Life is for sure better without their wayward drama, and thats what I keep telling myself. I have been happier in Plan B then I was with WH in the house the last few months during the affair and after its discovery. But my heart still has love for him, and my head still has all of our happy memories and the thought of my kids growing up in a broken home is really hard to stomach. Slowly but surely however, I'm able to face the reality of this more. 2 months ago I couldn't handle the thought of coming up with a divorce agreement, but now I'm eager to get it done. Not because I want it, but because I want some aspect of certainty in this chaos. So at least there is progress.

Like I said, you are still looking for excuses to stay in contact with him and now you have found another. You told me you weren't at the start of your post and then ended the post with .......another excuse to contact him! So, I rest my case.

All you are doing is setting yourself up for a grand FAIL by telling him that he has LEVERAGE and is in full control of you. In other words you are trying to negotiate with a terrorist. I am not sure why you think he would be persuaded by you. There is no reason and no benefit of contacting him directly, other than the fact that you want to get a fix. Just imagine how much it will hurt when he uses his leverage and you end up with nothing?

If this is true, your attorney can work this deal through the courts.

What is my best shot of getting him to agree? That is the most important thing to me right now.

Your lawyer could draft up a carefully worded agreement (under your direction of course) that says what you have said here; that he agreed to allow you to have the house and pension in return for . . . There is no need for your lawyer to be confrontational, he can use soft words like 'my client knows that you understand that peace and stability is the most important thing for your children'.

He is going to need to sign a legal document so there is no point in having an informal email exchange with him. That will not stand up in court. Just flatter him.

Who is the least objective person in this scenario?

That is a pretty entitled thing to say on his part. But, you can also see that he sees you as pining for him to the point you are just sitting around waiting for him to decide to take YOU back. This is the very (unattractive) portrayal we have been working hard to prevent you from giving him, by being firm and strong and sticking to your Plan B. The primary reason for Plan B is to protect you, but it has a side affect of showing him you are serious and have boundaries that you are NOT willing to negotiate, that you will not accept crumbs from a cheater. It shows STRENGTH and that although you want him in your life under the right conditions, you do not NEED him. Every time you break your Plan B it shows the opposite

I predict that you will continue to be in Plan C (yes, you are in Plan C) until you figure out this child exchange situation.

So long as you are in Plan C, you are going to continue to look for reasons to have contact with him. Having him come to the door is keeping you triggered and you are going to keep doing this.

It's lose-lose, because you are compromising your health and with every contact you make it more and more unlikely this will ever be recovered.

I think I know the reason why you are using this wording - because Dr Harley has used language about doing x, y or z different from his plans in order to get a quick divorce settlement due to a fogged out WS.

He does not mean to continuously delay Plan B for a BW - which is compromising your health. I have never heard him say that to a woman. He puts the woman's health at number 1. Not the divorce settlement.

And, amac, you have a very good job. While it might be sad to have to sell a car or a house and downsize to accommodate your financial situation - you are still in a good situation. We've seen stay-at-home moms here who have to move into shelters, back in with parents with 3 kids, etc. That's not you.

You should be focused on preserving your health and putting yourself in a position to be a GREAT mom to your kids. That's not where you are heading right now.

Yes my lawyer is drafting the agreement for him to sign with the things that I'm asking for, I never intended that to go in the email. And true, emailing is wrong on so many levels. OW monitors his email and I don't want a response from him. I will have my lawyer send the agreement, but I'm considering sending this note along with it. If he just sees the agreement without my rationale it looks like im just pissed and after him. Here is what I want to say:

WH,

Enclosed you will find my proposed settlement agreement. I wanted to write to you along with it because I wanted to give you my reasons for why I am asking for the things that I am. You have said all along that you would not take money from me, so I don't think asking for a waiver of spousal support or access to my pension will be disagreeable to you.

As I have said to you, I want to stay in the house with the kids, which is why I am asking for it. This benefits you too. If you force a sale of the house, who knows where I�ll go. Honestly, there are some days where I think maybe I should go to Utah and be with my family and start a whole new life. But, I want to stay in the house because I believe that is whats best for the kids. We are happy here. The daycare is good to them. And it will help you plan your future to know that this is where they will be.

As for the custody situation, I think it is in everyones best interest that we leave things as is for the rest of the year. Even if you were to get your own apartment right now, I would not agree to overnights. I think that would be very disruptive for the kids, particularly DS. It has been hard for me the last few months not knowing what your living situation is and when to expect you will want them more. It would give me some peace to know that this is how things will be for now. I think over the next few months it will give both of us time to get more emotionally removed from what has transpired so that we can be in a better place to decide what is best for them.

As for the holidays, you know I will make them more fun for the kids. My family is renting a cabin over Christmas and I would like to take the kids to Utah for Thanksgiving. I anticipate we will split holidays in the future, but this year, I hope you will let me have them.

You know what our finances are, and it will be more then a stretch for me to be able to pay the mortgage on my own salary, which is why I am asking for $1500 in child support. It will be tight for me to pay our bills with that but I think I could do it. I�m also asking for the money in our bank account so I have the funds to pay the property taxes.

As stated in the proposal, we can revaluate the custody situation at the beginning of the year at your request. For now I think what I have proposed is in the best interest of everyone.

My last request, please don't drag out this divorce. Right now, I'm still shocked, hurt, and sad. But I don't feel ill will towards you. I do think however if this gets dragged out ill feelings will be inevitable on both of our parts.

Please contact my attorney and let him know if this is agreeable to you. If not, I ask that in the least you start paying $1500 a month to me in child support in addition to your portion of the daycare expenses and whatever bills need to be taken care of. Please reach out to my attorney by 9/15 to give your response to this proposal.

Yes, I recognize my own bias which is what I'm posting here.

How about the note through my attorney? Not direct contact, he still can't get through to me, but at least I feel like I did what I could to try and persuade him.

I know its awful. He clearly does see me as pinning. But he has tried so many times with his words to reconcile and I haven't budged so I don't know why he thinks more talking to my sister would work. But yes, clearly my plan B breaks have given him that impression.

Problem is, he knows how opposed i am to divorce and our kids being raised in a broken home. What he doesnt realize yet, and what i was afraid of happening, his ability to not be involved in our kids lives over the last 3 months makes me prefer the prospect of divorce rather then a negligent father.

Thats a big reason why I filed the divorce right now, to take advantage of WH being in the fog. But its backwards for me. I understand why Dr. Harely advises it, because WS are too absorbed in their affair to participate and can be taken advantage of. But for me, his non participation puts me in a worse position. But, I still think now is the time for me because WH is couch surfing he has been able to accumulate 3 months of his pay so he has not felt the financial strain yet, but once he does have to get a place, and if he ever expects to live with OW (and her 2 kids) he is going to be dying financially and then would come after me. I have to act now and I don't see how sending a note through my attorney is going to be a trigger for me.

I realize that I am better off then a lot of women, but it also means I have more to lose.

My attorney was pressuring me yesterday about the no contact with WH, he says the courts won't like it and it makes me look "angry." But I explained to him exactly what you said, that having contact with him is emotionally damaging to me and effects my ability to be a good mom to my kids. I understand this. I don't want to be in Plan C. I do think month by month I have had improvements and I think I will continue to get better.

Hi Amac, make sure you also tell your attorney (and the court) that research shows there is no difference in outcomes between children of parents who stay together or divorce - except where they have been exposed to conflict between parents. I have had lots of problems with WH trying to challenge me not talking to him through courts and lawyers (he even managed to bribe his way to a court order that forced me to communicate with him directly in the country we were previously living in) but when I justify it like that - that I am doing it in order to protect my children from observing conflict - it has done the trick. I also got a social worker to confirm what I am saying about outcomes of children.

My WH used the fact that I said it was mentally and emotionally damaging for me to talk to him to demand that I have a psychological evaluation for my fitness to look after the children. It didn't come to anything, since I am obviously an extremely sane and rational person, and he has now run away and seems not to care about the children anyway, but it is still nice to know you have another approach if he tries that one.