Beth,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What type of feelings did you have toward your wife when you married her if not love? What characteristics about her were admirable then and/or now? Do you feel you married her for the wrong reasons? and if so what were they?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can't really say that I didn't love my wife back when we first got married. Yeah, I loved her, still love her. I just wasn't head-over-heels passionately in love with her. That's been missing our entire marriage. My love for her is more like the love you feel for your best friend, or for your sibling. I think that yes, we probably did marry for the wrong reasons. I won't go into details. Long story short, I was pretty young when we got married and I had no idea what I was getting into.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you have decided to "stay married" what are the reasons now? Do you want to be happy with your choice, or just to get by until you die?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The reason I'm still married is because of my son, pure and simple. If we didn't have any kids I'd probably not be there now. Yes I want to be happy with my choice. I don't want any regrets at all. I want to feel like I'm with the person who I WANT to be with the rest of my life!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I wonder if she too, feels that she has "never really loved you." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, good question. We've talked about that but I still don't have a very clear picture of whether she was head-over-heels in love with me. She's confused by my explanation actually. So maybe not. Maybe she never felt that for <B>anyone</B>. I'd like to talk more about that with her, but I know how that conversation will go, so I'm hesitant.<P>I'd like to say one thing too, in my wife's defense. She is trying to meet my emotional needs. There are a few that are practically impossible for her to fulfill. And there's the whole empathy thing. But other than that, she's working pretty hard. It's not like I have antipathy towards her or anything. But I can't get my feelings for her past just the "good-friend" thing that I've always felt for her.<BR>

OOOOHHHH DEAR!! Sorry Andy, I'm beginning to regret starting this post ... esp. knowing you aren't in a talkative mood these days!!!! Kinda dropped you into it, hey? I think I'd better lay low for a while.....<P><BR>The time difference is a killer - just went to bed about 1am my time, got up, checked the forum, and whoa ....this has taken on a life of it's own.<P>Most everyone has posted to Andy, so will leave that be. But I'll reply in general to everyone who posted to me .... Thanks.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Live each day as if it were your last on earth. (this is) not a prescription to be reckless or abandon your responsibilities, but to remind you of how precious life really is.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't believe this encourages us to live by our emotions, let them rule. I believe it is about quality of life ... JMHO<P>My problem with the faking it scenario, is that my H did that for years and years, and all it got me was more pain. In the depth of my confusion re. his actions and words, opposed to how he told me he really felt all those years, I have been through more pain imaginable. To have your love reiforced through beautiful letters, words and actions, and then be told that he didn't mean these things, that he wanted so much to feel that way that he was just trying to make it happen .... that hurts more than the truth. How was I to know how unhappy he was, when he was professing his love to me, and pretending how happy he was????<P>Nah, I have a big problem with that, because I have lived with it for years. By the way, my H is a deeply sensitive individual, who I know would never have deliberately hurt me ... but hurt like hell it has.<P>Sorry if this is in disagreement with everyone else, but I've lived it from the other side ... I am now having major problems trusting that anything he or anyone else says is real ... as I've lived with this acting for so long. It's pretty well messed him up too.... JMHO. <BR>

Hi Andy -<P>Glad to see they have gotten you out and into the talk "seat"!!! You've been sitting on the sidelines with your silence about yourself long enough...Your turn for the soft pushes!!<P>C'mon, we all know that most of your being down is about the Padres!! (wink-wink!!)<P>Seriously, I am sorry that you are stuck in the limbo pain!!! You've gotten great advice here though, Andy!!!<P>You really do have to take a more active role...what do you mean by waiting for the "feelings"? I don't quite get that when people seem to be doing it...<P>I look at it this way....when you (or anyone) is "dating" or starting a relationship....do you sit back and not participate? Do you not communicate with this other person? Do you not do things and talk about things and have fun with this other person? <P>Isn't that when the feelings get started?<P>What kind of "in love" feelings could anyone "get" for someone if they don't interact with them about anything or about anything other than this whole stressful affair business? <P>If you keep your mind bogged in all the feelings of the past or with the fantasies of what you may or may not miss with your choice.......then how do you allow any chance of "getting" the feelings to coincide with the choice?<P>In other words, you can't expect to win the gold metal at the Olympics for swimming if you only sit on the side and dip your toes in!!!! <P>You have to jump in and start dog paddling, then maybe a breastroke or two!! Add in some sidestrokes and the all powerful butterfly strokes and soon you'll be relaxing on your back cruising along with the ease of a backstroke to keep you moving.......<P>OK - not the best analogy, but you get my drift!!!! (ha-ha "drift" - get it!!)<P>Anyway, YOU are hurting confused and miserable.....Your WIFE is hurting confused and miserable!!! This is a long time for you both......<P>The other things about life that you could both be enjoying are being passed up ...... <P>I don't see where "faking it" has to be an outcome!! All you have to do is TRY to move your life along... All your wife has to do is try to move her life along....<P>Go back to the non-thinking all the time like when the relationship began.....<P>Talk to each other like then....get rid of this "hunt and peck" for the right words or the right time....blah, blah!!!<P>Yes, it will be hard...there's a lot that probably needs to be addressed - but who says it happens from the get-go!<P>NOONE is ever happy when there is nothing going on that is fun!! And that is giving your attention to someone and receiving attention from someone....<P>Everyone, including your wife, needs some new stimulation in their lives.<BR>It's finding that new stimulation together that is needed.<P>The rest will follow - if you let it!!<P>Jump off the fence and into the pool!!!<P>Marco Polo time!!! Or how about some water volleyball!!!<P>We love ya, guy.....we'll be your motivation!!!!<P>HUGS and don't worry the Padres will be back next year!!!! LOL!!<P>Sheba<BR> <BR>

<BR> I dont see how you can get a feeling back,<BR> that you never had in the first place.<BR> Before you met the other woman, you didnt know what it was like so I can see why it bothers you so much now, that you have had it, that make sense? <BR>

Airheart--<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My love for her is more like the love you feel for your best friend, or for your sibling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I could say the same thing about my husband. I'm just trying to figure out what's realistic for me and what I want out of my marriage. I don't want to settle, but I don't want to expect too much either.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yes I want to be happy with my choice. I don't want any regrets at all. I want to feel like I'm with the person who I WANT to be with the rest of my life!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me too! <P>Pam

andy:<P>I'm glad you're thinking about Steve. I went to two other counselors too---and neither one was worth much, even though they had "excellent" credentials. So again, I'll encourage you to do the experiment. I did, and I've been trememdously happy with the result. Most everyone else who has used him that I know about have also been extremely impressed. So I hope you do decide to go that route, because I think it'll cut down on your recovery time.<P>Sosad: I posted to you about faking it. I completely agree with you that faking it for years, without the other person knowing about a problem is completely inappropriate---and it often lands the participants right "here". The "Act as if" is usually done as a short term (1-3 month) experiment, best done where both parties are aware of the "reason" behind it.<P>Silently suffering through a marriage isn't good. No argument there.

"Love" felt for a sibling or a "best friend" is not a love to be taken lightly or to be considered unimportant. It is that love which is the true basis for a continued relationship. If all you felt for your W had been passionate love, based on sexual needs and pleasures, your relationship would have no future. A passionate love is not the type of love that forgives. A passionate love does not care for the sick or old. The role played by passionate love is strictly meant for sexual arrousal and high drama. Granted, a healthy and fulfilling relatonship includes passionate love, but it is not the foundation that will carry the relationship through all the trials and tribulations life throws in the path of a couple committed to the union. Passion is attainable for ANYONE at ANYTIME given the right MINDSET. You must have felt it for your W on some occasions. I cannot believe there would have been a marriage without some heavy breathing, button fumbling excitement between the two of you.<BR>More on this later.<BR> <P>Try this idea....<BR>Imagine that somehow you know that this is the last month of your wife's life. You are not allowed to tell her. How would you feel knowing that? How would you want to act toward her in her last days? Would there be feelings of guilt for the wasted opportunities you had to make her life happier? Would you make extrodinary efforts to express love to her now? Would there be passion? Would there be relief knowing that you soon would be free to pursue another relationship? Is so, would you treat her with more love and attention, knowing you would not have to do it very long, or would you completely withdraw and let her face the end alone, in fear that your own needs and feelings, would suffer by association?<P>Your answers may give you cause to examine further the power you have over your own mindset. Give it some thought.<P>Beth

Alright already, this thread's gone on long enough!! Really, I'm not worth all the effort you guys are putting forth to me! I'm officially closing it now! <P>Okay, so I'll respond to some of your questions/points:<P>sosad -- don't worry about starting all this. Really, everyone's been very helpful.<P>Sheba -- you're right about alot of things, of course. However I'm not really just "waiting around" for my feelings to come back. I sorta gave the impression that I am, but I'm really not. I'm taking an active roll in trying to regain my feelings, but I find my motivation going way WAY down lately. We've done so much together and our sex life has improved alot, but there doesn't seem to be any love-units being deposited in my love-bank. It's just discouraging.<P>BTW, the Pads just traded away their NUMBER ONE pitcher to the Phillies for a bunch of NOBODYS!! So don't talk to me about baseball right now! UGH! <P>CutieP -- Yes, what you say makes a lot of sense. It's my whole point, I guess!<P>Holly -- I know what you mean about not wanting to "settle." I've told my wife that I don't want to settle for what we had the previous 16 yrs of marriage. It HAS to be better. I don't think I'm unrealistic. It's what I want and I know it's possible; if not with my wife, then with SOMEONE.<P>Beth -- I'm not discounting the "best-friend" love as being unimportant. But I have to have more. My definition of "passionate" love extends to more than just what you're talking about (sexual desire, etc). I'm talking about MISSING my wife when she's away from me. I'm talking about LOOKING FORWARD to coming home after work. I'm talking about KNOWING that I'm with the person I WANT to be with for the rest of my life. I never ever felt any of those things for my wife. Seriously. Never.<P>RE: You're scenario about my wife having only a month to live... First of all, that's an extraordinary situation and it's very difficult for anyone to predict what they'd REALLY do in that situation. But I can try to answer your individual questions as well as I can:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How would you want to act toward her in her last days? Would there be feelings of guilt for the wasted opportunities you had to make her life happier? Would you make extrodinary efforts to express love to her now? Would there be passion? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I would feel bad that she never got to know the feeling of someone who truly LOVED her. Would I FAKE it? I'd show her that I'd care for her, I'd show her that I was there for her. If there's no passion now, I can't manufacture it because she's dying. Maybe I can fake it so that she'll be happier in her final month. I generally do not like being dishonest like that, but it would probably be worth it if it was her last month to live.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Would there be relief knowing that you soon would be free to pursue another relationship? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>At first my reaction to that question was that it was a pretty harsh and cruel one. But if I'm completely honest with myself, I'd have to say, yes, I would feel a certain amount of relief. Of course there would be grief as well. Grief for losing a companion of my last 16+ years. Grief that my son would lose his mother...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>would you completely withdraw and let her face the end alone, in fear that your own needs and feelings, would suffer by association?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Of course I would not. There's no way I could do that. That would be extremely cruel.<P>Not sure what the whole point of that was. My feelings are still what they are...<P>Anyway, thanks all for your input. I'll keep y'all updated.<BR>--andy