My H came home 7 weeks ago after 4 month separation (D-Day, 5/6/01). When he first came home, we had sex (which was better than at the beginning of our relationship 16 years ago). After a couple of weeks, he began to withdraw. I have since found out that contact continued with OW, until 8/14/01 (as far as I can tell). Now, I'm feeling so sad and feeling like he will never want the affection/sex from me again. Is this normal behavior? It's so hard for me because essentially, he shut down a month before he left. He's had the great affection from a new love for the last 6 months and I've had nothing. He has since told me that when we had sex when he first came home, it must have been as a result of guilt. What's that about? I'm so afraid that he will never feel that way towards me again. I'm really lucky if I get a dry peck in the mornings when he leaves for work. When we go to bed, I'm always the one that has to say goodnight/love you/hug or kiss. What do I do? Do I back off and stuff my feelings for now?

MOM<P>I don't have the answer for you. However, I do know that I am in the exact same position with my W. My W has told me that she wants to try to make this work. We are not living together, however. She says she wants to try, but has absolutely no affection for me whatsoever. Prior to OM entering our lives, we would hold hands all the time, kiss each other goodbye, and make love an average of 4 times a week. Now - NOTHING, Zip, Zilch, Nada. Major bummer because I am a very affectionate person.<P>Not only that, she does not want to be accountable for anything, expects for me to trust her at face value, and only wants me to call her on her cell phone (never the house phone). I am beginning to get very frustrated by the whole thing. How can I regain trust if she does not want to be accountable?<P>S&C

myownme...<P>I hesitate to respond...for fear of adding to any of your pain.<P>I am a male WS...(EA...strong)...and have been in that place that your husband is in.<P>It did not help matters at all...that I didn't feel like SF needs were being met at home...which was just one of numerous issues...but that is another story.<P>Depression can effect sex drive. ANd believe me...there is serious depression taking place when in withdrawl. There really is no words to describe it. And I would have to add...you can't take it personally...though that may be difficult to understand.<P>It is possible he is wanting to avoid the intimacy with you for fear of 'other thoughts and images' swirling around in his head.<P>It is a horrible 'door to open' in one's life and marriage...and I am discovering out why.<P>Not sure what your husband's sex drive was like before...but most men...have a reasonably strong one. He might even be "taking care of himself" and thus...reducing the natural desires he would have and enjoy taking care of with you. You might even ask him if that is the case.<P>Have you tried initiating some of those more intimate moments at convenient or appropriate times?<P>I am so sorry for the pain and rejection you are feeling...but try not to take it personally. It is largely a battle taking place within your husband. Of course, I really don't know how things were before the affair for you.<P>Hope this helps.

Dear S&C,<BR>Sorry to hear that you are feeling the same. I have to say, my H and I had GREAT sex our whole marriage. His sex drive is pretty low for a man (I think it's because he smokes pot and has for years). I have tried to tell him that his pot smoking is affecting his sex drive, but he doesn't want to hear it. He quit for a year once, and although we were having some troubles at that point in our marriage, we did have more sex. It's funny, because you would think that the BS's would be the ones to withhold the affection, but in my case, that's just not true. I think that part of it is trying to make sure the WS doesn't return to the OW for the affection (I am deeply afraid that my H will blame the no sex on me). Part of it for me is that I've lost 54 pounds, gotten contacts and started wearing make-up since my H left and I just FEEL sexier about myself. I wish my H would look at me the way that he used to. He didn't even notice my new hairdo yesterday, although my bus driver said it looked nice. I don't understand how they (the WS) can detach so well, when I'm having a heck of a time doing that!<P>Lighthouse,<BR>Although some of what you said made me sad, I always appreciate hearing the other side's views. My H has had such a hard time sharing any of his feelings with me. In fact, he hates any talk of the problems in the relationship at this point. Of course, I've wanted to do nothing BUT talk about the relationship and it's really pushed him away. As far as initiating, he's made me feel so uncomfortable about it, that I've really tried to wait on him. For instance when he told me that he "just didn't feel that way about me right now" I asked him why he kissed me goodbye in the a.m. and goodnight then. He responded "well, if you want the truth, I'm forcing myself to do that." When he had not problem with it for 16 years, why does he have to force himself now? I feel so incredibly unloved and undesirable right now. When he comes in the bathroom to take his shower in the mornings, he looks at the floor instead of me. There are days when I feel like a leper. I can't initiate, because I can't accept the rejection that comes when I do.

mom...<P>I realize there are so many factors that figure in to these situations. Sure, the pot smoking may be one. Not sure of the age factor here either. So I can only share on a limited basis and from my own experience.<P>For myself...even though I have a strong sex drive, I've never been one to desire 'sex' with another woman...just because she was a 'woman'. The desire for me is much higher when there is an emotional 'connection'. And part of my problem at home was the distancing that took place between my wife and me. When I became involved with the other person,the desire just went through the roof for me...because we developed a very strong emotional 'connection' as friends. She just became a refuge for my lonely heart. By the way...she lives in another state.<P>So in the process of trying to break off all contact...the depression has really been tough (I know you hate to hear this)...and then..trying to 'rebuild' that emotional bond of friendship with my wife...just seems like an uphill battle.<P>It does infact seem like one has to make a 'mechanical' effort to do certain things. I'm sorry he actually verbalized that fact he 'forced' himself to kiss you and such.<P>Not sure that there are any real 'easy' answers to all this.<P><p>[This message has been edited by lighthouse (edited August 27, 2001).]

LH,<BR>My H has expressed the same sentiments as you. In fact, when he was leaving, before I knew about his A, he said that while he still desired me (in that he wasn't repulsed by me), he was dead inside emotionally, and that he couldn't even THINK about having sex with me or anyone else for that matter. Of course, I found out a few weeks later that he WAS having sex with someone else. He has told me the same thing since he came home, so naturally, it's hard for me to believe that he's not continuing things with OW. My H had me send the "no contact" letter 2 times. The first time, I sent it certified/return receipt requested. Well, OW refused it, and I got it back. The 2nd time, my H had me just mail it. He called OW and told her it was coming, and supposedly told her what it said, and that she should READ it (of course, I have NO idea what he really said to her). Well, 3 days after I mailed the letter, the OW sent it back to me, unopened and cut up along the bottom. So consequently, I have NO idea for sure whether contact has ceased or not. My H refuses to call her when I am there as he doesn't want to be MEAN to her. That's so hard for me when he was kicking me in the stomach (figurately speaking) for the last 6 months.

MOM,<BR>I don't have much advice, but I suggest trying the Emoitional Needs Questionar, maybe his needs are not being met. I As WS think that if he is looking at the floor instead of you then he feels guilty about something.<BR>The same friend I told you about in my post, sent me a link about WS, and how they need space. If you would like it I can send it to you, I just need your email. If not that's fine too.<BR>We bought the book "His needs, Her needs" so far it's been a great source of knowledge that I think everyone should read.Maybe you can tell your H to come here as see that he is not the only WS and he can feel better by talking about his problems. Good Luck and I will pray for you both. Sherry.

I'll tell you...when Harley talks about this being an 'addiction'..he is not kidding.<BR>Now I'll be the first one to tell anyone...that the feelings I developed for this other person were genuine..and run deep. No one will ever convince me I am in a "fog" or that she was/is some 'faceless drug' for my soul.<P>But the emotions that are involved with trying to break things off...can produce the same effect inyou that any 'addict' has when trying to break free of something that is controlling his life. I will also add that trying to successfuly make this break has been the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. Period! I can only imagine what the pull would have been like if my relationship with her had been fully consummated.<P>If there has been recent contact with your husband and the OW, even within the past month...sounds like that battle is still raging within him.<P>Again, speaking from experience...I have never encountered such a range of emotional swings. I hate myself...for what I have done to my marriage and wife. I hate myself, for helping drag this other woman who was married into this pit of despair. We both have been steadfast that we could not nor would not leave our marriages...regardless of how much we felt for each other. We knew it would be doomed to pursue it. <P>I have my moments...when I feel emotionally strong enough to go home and be the husband I need to be...to make amends...to work on restoring the love at home. But those are always countered and overwhelmed with the emotional landslide of despair and depression over ending a very close friendship with someone I fell in love with.<P>I feel at times like my heart is just going to explode from the swings.<P>This is not going to be encouraging....but sounds like you have one difficult and long road ahead.<p>[This message has been edited by lighthouse (edited August 27, 2001).]

Sherry,<BR>Thanks for the advice, but my H at this point is grudgingly going to counseling. I've tried to get him to fill out the EN questionnaire, but I'm starting to think the ONLY reasons he's home are financial and our kids. You know what's so hard? His OW lives 3 miles from where he works. I just called my H at work. It's his lunchtime. I made his lunch today, so you would think he'd be there. He's not. Also, he did not answer his cell phone. I am sitting here SICK TO MY STOMACH because I think he's probably meeting with OW right now. I cannot check on him because I take a bus to work and so am "stuck" downtown all day. This mistrust is the HARDEST thing for me. My H does not want to reassure me at this point. I hate this. I'm feeling sick, and it may be nothing, or it may be that he's with her again.

I agree with Lighthouse that your H could be addicted, I don't know cause I felt to guilty after eveyhting I did with OM. The guilt was eating me alive, Probably my loving H calling me Every chance he got. <BR>I'm sure your feeling very ill, I do when I think of OM and what I did! Stay strong for the both of you I know you can and cry if you need to cause we are here for you. I still think you should get counseling even if it is buy yourself, It's nice to just have some one hear you out. <BR>I still think you should email me so I can email you that link. Keep Smiling and keep your head held high. Sherry at SENNMILLER@aol.com

As A WS myself I think your getting excellent insight from lighthouse. I have not kept up on your posts so I have no idea how long your husbands affair was or how attached the two of them were to each other. But, if it was a long affair and if they felt they were in love with each other then the advice your receiving from lighthouse is very good. I know when the OM and myself stopped contact the depression was so terrible for me that I didn't even care that my marriage was ending in divorce. I was too depressed over not being with the OM. The emotional attachment with the OM made it impossible for me to even let my spouse touch me. As for the OM, once he tried to stay home with his ex the thought of intimacy with her caused him to have panic attacks. It has nothing to do with looks, his ex was/is an attractive woman. You need to develop an emotional bond with your husband before the physical can come. Please don't push him. It doesn't really matter why he's home with you. If it's just for the "kids" and financial reasons at least that is a building spot. Continue to work on you....be an exciting fun person and eventually he'll come around. Now, the next issue in regards to her being only 3 miles from his place of employment. That part of your post does bother me. Your right, it would be very easy for him to see her during his lunch hour. That's when I was able to see the OM. BUT, the fact that she didn't read the no-contact letter and even sent the second one back cut up leads me to believe that it was her way of washing her hands of him and the affair. That might be what is making him so upset too.

Thanks everyone for the honesty. It's very hard for me to keep trying when all he makes me feel like is a failure. My biggest fear is that he's lying again, and I'm going through all of this for nothing...I hate having the sick, suspicious feelings. I hate that HE's done this to me. I hate that he won't acknowledge all the changes I've made since he left to better our marriage. Sometimes I feel so much like giving up. Why does it all have to be up to me? When is it my turn to receive instead of give? I just called him when I got back from my lunch. I had asked him to leave me a message about the car (that's why I called him at lunch in the first place). There was no message, and when I called him back he was a complete *******. He said if he'd had time, he WOULD have called me back. I guess I don't deserve even the smallest of courtesies right now.

Bonnie...<P>If I'm not mistaken...didn't you end up leaving your husband and marrying the OP? <BR>I know I've read some of your post before...and you've always been refreshingly candid.<BR>Perhaps you have addressed this question before, but I'm curious (not that I'm considering this)...but looking back now in hindsight....would you have done the same thing? Are you happier now? Has there been a 'price to pay' for pursuing that relationship?<P>If I've mistaken you for someone else...please forgive me.<P>Just wondering....how that road has been for you.

My H went thru this- I ended up going for 7 mo with NO affection in between the couple months he was in physical part of the EA/PA and 4 mo afterward while he was in secret contact for part of that time then went thru a horrific 6 wk withdrawal period where he was very depressed. I remember begging him for some affection- he said he needed time to get his feelings back for me and that if I insisted he kiss me it was as if I was demanding he go kiss the next door neighbor lady! ( at least he was very honest with me!)This after 15 yrs of marriage and 3 kids together! They arent kidding when they say depression results from giving up an addiction! I bought all victoria secret new stuff and took sensuous bubble baths- still I had to wait him out till he was ready about 2 mo if I remember right till he initiated things. At least it was great when it came back! My advice is try NOT to take this too personally- its HIS hangup and dont think youre second best to OW- if you were he'd be living with HER! Just be friends with him until he feels like he can handle more emotionally. Believe me pressuring wont help. Maybe OW will pressure him and that will make him turn to you more- thats what happened in my case OW pressured H to file for D on me and when he did it made him snap back into reality and he cancelled it, FINALLY ended all contact with OW and then went thru the withdrawal stage and now we're in recovery. Good luck! lifeismessy

myownme- I just wanted to thank you for starting this thread. I used to WORRY endlessly if H felt I was unattractive when he wouldnt touch me, I used to worry that he would never feel desire or affection for me again and I felt like leftovers to OW. But all this proved to be untrue in the end- now I feel our love life is better than before I found out about the A! I appreciate reading the insight from the wandering spouses on this board and they are giving you great insight into how they were feeling at the time. <BR>Even though I am quite upset that H had such an intense emotional/intimate bond with OW - at least I prefer that to his being promiscuous and a sex addict who disconnected sex from emotions. lifeismessy

Lighthouse: Yes, I did leave my ex for the OM. That was a few years ago. I don't bring that up much on these boards because in all honesty, I see most of these marriages having a better chance at making it with their spouse vs. the OP. People struggling in a marriage where a spouse has been unfaithful are not at a point where they want to hear that a lot of second marriages do work. Now a few years later things have calmed down in my life but it was an extremely rough road. My marriage to the OM has always been good and strong but my ex and his girlfriend took 4-5 years before they started leaving us a lone. That's another whole story. But in regards to my second marriage, I don't regret it, just how we reached the point we are at. As far as our ex's. Well, my ex is still with his girlfriend and it's been a good 5-6 years for them. They are selling their current home and building a new home. I think they are getting married next year. His family has been a positive influence on him and he's starting to be a father to his kids again. My husband's ex has a very busy social life but I don't know if there is anybody serious in her life at this moment. It's been over 5 years since discovery and to be honest, I don't think about my first marriage much. We are busy with our jobs, our kids and our home.

Wow, thanks for all the replies all. It helps so much to know that maybe his feelings for me aren't dead forever. I will try my best to be patient, be the wife I think he needs me to be, and hope and pray that he stays away from OW, so that we can get on with our lives. Anyone else out there, feel free to reply with any new insights.

Hi mom...<P>Glad to see you back. Sounded like you had a rough day yesterday.<P>I want to encourage you to hold on...to your 'hope'. Don't let it die...ever.<P>You've heard that old expression about 'the grass being greener on the other side of the fence'? Well...in truth, the grass is always greener...wherever it is watered.<P>For one reason or another....you and your husband stopped 'watering' each other's hearts. Deadness set in...and you are both paying a price for it now. But that does not mean things can't change. <P>Don't expect overnight miracles, although they can happen. But that is not the norm. But rest assured...just start doing all you know to do...and look for God to do the rest.<P>Just start watering...applying many of the principals you read here. In time...you will see change.

Lighthouse,<BR>That's an awesome analogy. Thanks so much for that. I've got bible study tonight, and I'm asking for prayers of healing and patience.

Hi MOM,<P>I sent you an e-mail, I hope you got ok. I just got on, How are you doing today. Sherry