Hi, <p>I would use a combination of 2 & 6 or 2 & 7. Depending on how bad you think she might receive anything you say or do. You realize that if you are keeping score here, you will never win this round. So why play? <p>When my H was out there making stupid statments and decisions (which by the way he no longer remembers doing some of this) I used to try to reason with him. WRONG!!!! I did better talking to a wall (actually did that once). Anyway, when I stopped playing their games (fueled by the OW), I started getting back my respect and the WS started treating me better. Probably because they (ow and ws) did not know how I was going to react. See I took away their ability to push my buttons. My H always knew I am not a threatening type of person so when I stopped talking that basically meant watch out....... Sure enough, it scared the OW. This 5'5" lady is scared of a 4'10"? hm...... I never threatened her with harm or even said a bad word to her (she did to me), so it is all in her head......... and I like it that way. <p>JHMO,
L.

Orchid,<p> I think that I will do 2&6. That way she can't push my buttons. The question though is. If I call her at the OM's house then wouldn't that be breaking my plan?<p>Indy

Bump

Z and Orchid,<p> Where did you guys go??<p>Indy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong>Z and Orchid,<p> Where did you guys go??<p>Indy</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah where the heck every one goes ?. INDY, are you still here ?. I just back from dinner w/ my D ... they love it. Of course by the time we are back WW is already gone to OM. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Anyway we have fun ... It is beautiful moon in SF,CA. The night just started ...

Redhat,<p> I am still here. I am glad that you had a nice dinner with you D. It is 11:57pm here.<p>Indy

Indy,<p>I second everything that Orchid said. She is a very wise and wonderful person. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If you are going to call her at the OM's house, then only speak long enough to get the info. Do not engage. Keep repeating to yourself "do not engage". I mean it. Used that technique with my step son when he used to try to get me into screaming matches with him. <p>You say that you do not know if your wife wants custody of the children. So you are thinking of leaving them with your parents. Ah, to find out what she wants, you have to ask her. And you do not need to talk to her to do this. Trying faxing her a letter asking her what custody and time sharing arrangements she has been thinking of. Then you can negotiate them.<p>If you leave the kids with your parents. Your wife can go pick them up at any time and assume custody. Your parents have no legal right to them.<p>And listen to redhat too. He's giving you some good advice.<p>You still around?<p>Z

Z,<p> I thought that you may have turned in for the night. I was thinking about calling her while she is at work and just leaving a message that I got her message. And just leave it at that. What do you mean by,"don't engage"?<p>Indy<p>[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Z and Redhat,<p> I think that I am going to turn in. I am going to just sleep on it tonight.<p>Indy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong>Z and Redhat,<p> I think that I am going to turn in. I am going to just sleep on it tonight.<p>Indy</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
About midnight by now, night, night!. ... call & leave message to WW phone mail in the morning. Do not do direct contact and when you have to ... ignore confrontations and when key phrases or words is pushed to you, just keep talking to the subject and not let W to hijack the conversation or changing the subject to get to you.<p>I am still watching this forum 'till midnight PST.

Indy,
Wow! I've been off my computer most of the afternoon / nite. Active topic again [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . I couldn't have been much help on this stuff anyhoo... you got GRREAt advice here.<p>Have a good nite! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Faith1<p>[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Indy,<p>By "engage" I mean don't let her engage you in any conversation or angry/heated exchange that you do not want to participate in.<p>My step son used to keep doing things to get me mad, like yelling at me, throwning things, getting physically in my face. The first few times he did this he "engaged" me, meaning that I let him suck me into it and play me like a fiddle.<p>Then his counselor told me about the "do not engage thing." After that, when he'd fly off the handle and try to suck me in, I'd keep repeating the "do not engage" in my head. Worked like a charm. It gave me the time collect myself and have control over my reaction. Then I would respond to in a in low, sweet controlled voice. "Now you know this behavior it totally out of control. I will not subject myself and the other kids to it. So you go to your room for the rest of the night (day, year, life depending of the outburst). Sometimes I would also remove some of his favorite things from his room.. computer, stereo, games, music..... ) It worked.<p>By doing this it took the payoff out of his mind games. The number of times he did this decreased because he knew that all he'd get out of it was to be exiled to a stripped room.<p>If you do not let your wife "engage" you in her game. Then she will eventually stop it bacause there is no payoff for her.<p>z

Hi Indy and Redhat and gang,<p>No, I don't think that would break your plan. You are leaving a message to a request. The fact that you may or may not be doing it the way should would like is trivial to you a this time. Protecting yourself and your family from further abuse is important. Now your W may not think she is being abusive (she will one day maybe just not right now), but she is and you need to take whatever protective measures you need to help you. <p>Sorry for the delay, I was out with H delivering the Raider's highlights tape/show to be aired on Sunday (I think). I went to SFO and H is now on his way to deliver it to 3 other TV stations.<p>Hey Z, you make me sound old LOL!!! Kinda like that 'ol margarine commercial "it's not nice to fool mother nature". Do you remember that? I hope I am not the only 'ol person on this board that recollects that old commercial!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
Take Care,
L.<p>[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Orchid,<p>If you are old, then I'm ancient. You are just wise beyond your years… how’s that? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Z

All,<p> I think that I will wait until she goes to work and I will call then to leave a message at work. That keeps me from having to call the OM's house and it can only be a message if it is at work. I will just let her know that I got her message. What do you think?<p>Indy<p>[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>That's a good way to handle it. <p>How are you going handle responding to the issues:<p>Are you going to have your attorney set a time/place for her to get her stuff?<p>Or maybe have her arrange time/place with your parents. That will save you $$ and get it done.<p>Z<p>[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Z,<p> I don't know that one. It will be very hard to give her those things. I am a very sentimental person and those things are all I have left of my household. I don't know if I could do it without crying. <p> I am interested to know if you still think that things are far from over between us or not. The only communication is about the kids and this stuff. Other then that she wants nothing to do with me. <p>Indy

Indy,
You have to let it go, even it hurt. Cry and kick and scream in here and at home but never let her see or hear it(no contact). Even on your message to W, be direct and do not give her clue about your pain. This might even help you past your grievance.<p>
I am interested to know if you still think that things are far from over between us or not. The only communication is about the kids and this stuff. Other then that she wants nothing to do with me. <p>my 2¢, IMHO, time will tell. Stick with your plan and stop worrying about over/not over.

Indy,<p>As for you giving her the things, what does your attorney say about it? In some states there is a law that says that household goods stay with the family for 3 years. Then the spouse who left can take their share. Don't know the law where you are.<p>I don't want to build false hope for you. But what gets me is her constantly saying that she wants to talk to you. It's not what she wants to talk about that gets me. It's that she does want to talk. She seems to have a need for having contact with you even if it's just arguing. Reminds me of a drownding swimmer who keeps trashing around and trying to grab on to the life-guard.<p>There is an article on this web site written by Harley that might help you on this topic. I'll hunt it down and give you the link to it.<p>Right now I have to get to work to earn the rest of the comp time I need so I can go to Orlando on Monday!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Z

Everyone,<p> I don't know what happened. I posted a reply before I left the house and it is not here. So, I will retype it.<p> I listened to her message from last night. She said that She would like to talk about getting her stuff and for me to call her. She also said that she had a court order if I needed to see it again. It seems when I told her that she needed to pay support she started all of this mess. It was the time of the call that bothered me. She must have this weekend off. How do I handle it now? Do I call her and just say that I got her message and that I don't have time to talk about it now?<p>Indy