1. age when started-40 for both of us<p>2. How they met-he was my coach<p>3. Did she know he was married before she met him--YES...we were both married ..You have to understand...we NEVER intended to have an emotional affair. We are both Christian, devoted parents, successful professionals....<p>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started---low point in our lives. Both of us were married to spouces who devoted time to other things. His--to his kids, mine to our son and to MONEY!<p>5. Affair length--2yrs---recently TERMINATED<p>6. Any contact with you--we have periodic contact...it is difficult.<p>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.----Parents married over 40yrs both his and mine....no abuse in either of our parent's marriages or our own.<p>8. education--I have 2 Master's degrees. He is a degreed professional<p>9. Job----both professionals..I am a nutritionist, he is a Pilot.<p>10. Add anything else you know that may shine light on OP. These things aren't generally planned....treat your daughter with understanding. Likely as not, her affair will die a natural death.
Prayers-
C&I

I'm sorry, confused&insecure and other WS, no offense intended, but I have to say this.<p>Yes, I fully believe that the initial attraction is unplanned. No one faults WS or OP for feelings.<p>However, the actions the WS took WERE patentedly planned and deliberate as was their deceitful and disrespectful treatment of their BS.<p>Fortunately, some WS do PLAN to do the right thing, and if both spouses recommit, there is hope for the marriage. <p>But, please!!! None of this "unplanned", "We didn't mean for it to happen." stuff. WS DO plan and they DO mean for it to happen, or it would not have happened. Nobody made them do it. It was their choice.<p>Estes, a BMIL<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
<strong>
However, the actions the WS took WERE patentedly planned and deliberate as was thier deceitful and disrespectful treatment of their BS.<p>Estes, a BMIL<p>feelingsactions</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I always say that the only thing you didn't plan and can't help is being attracted to someone. Nothing beyond that is an accident and it takes deliberate steps. People know full well when a "friendship" is crossing the line into something else. Not a single thing beyond an initial attraction "just happens".

Here's mine...<p>My wife:<p>1. age when started- first time, 20 (she claims - may have been 18), second (current) time, 29.<p>2. How they met-at work, he's a student who works closely with her<p>3. Did she know he was married before she met him- the OM is single <p>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started--- she claims I've neglected our relationship - probably have in many ways, but she's always seemed happy up to moment of confession<p>5. Affair length-- an emotional affair, met about 7 months ago, got serious 3 months ago.<p>6. Any contact with you-- still comes home to me, but is emotionally distant - started Plan A in earnest a week or so ago, although essentially been doing it for 2 months now.<p>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.---- Parents married young, mother is very dependent, father is controller, been married 30 years<p>8. education-- she's got a Ph.d.<p>9. Job---- post-doctoral position<p>
The OM:<p>1. age when started- He's currently 30.<p>2. How they met-see above<p>3. Did she know he was married before she met him- he knew she was married and encouraged her to leave me (and he's supposedly a devout Christian - go figure). <p>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started--- this guy sounds quite extroverted and a pretty smooth talker<p>5. Affair length-- see above<p>6. Any contact with you-- none, thank God<p>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.---- Parents are in Korea - introduces a whole level of complexity that is acting more of an attraction to my W<p>8. education-- he's just starting his Ph.d.<p>9. Job---- just what he can get from supervisor

estes,
It's good to hear from you but sad to know that she is resistant. Of the "seven deadly sins" Pride is the worst of all. I see that your dil and my d are full of pride.
I have to say that we do see her more and everything is friendly. She does, unknowingly , reviel herself though so my hunch is that there is contact. she will not be able to move on while there is contact, we all know that here at MB. I don't dare even hint at this point in our plan A.
We have said plenty and she well knows where we stand on this. I recently told her that "It doesn't matter, I love you anyway".
What can we do Estes, I'm sure you feel the same helplessness.
I hope we find peace, you and I.

1. age when started-STBX 43 OP don&#8217;t know, just know he was worried about the age difference so I would guess 10 to 15 yrs younger <p>2. How they met-\ work<p>3. Did she know he was married before she met him&#8212;yes, so was she, she D her H, within months of start of A; H & I are still in the process but D was not started till he moved in within her in June of 2001<p> 4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started. STBX has lots of lingering sports injuries; stress over job; etc<p>5. Affair length&#8212;PA started March 1999, not sure when EA started most likely Jan 1999<p>6. Any contact with you&#8212;yes she has emailed on 2 occasions. The 1st the day boys & I were leaving to join then H in Singapore; she also called our house in the states & then overseas constantly anytime then H would try & break off from her; OW doesn&#8217;t feel the failure of our marriage is her fault as we had problems because if we hadn&#8217;t she would never had been a factor. <p> 7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.----STBX parents married close to 50 but not happily, FIL had an A or something about 14yrs ago, both of STBX's siblings are D. OW parents D, her mom married again for over 20 yrs, her family has accepted & encouraged A from within months of its beginning<p> 8. education--. Don&#8217;t know<p>9. Job----. Works in office but think more than secretarial but she doesn&#8217;t make much beyond what 1st yr teachers make<p>10. Add anything else you know that may shine light on OP. she is younger, prettier, fitter, smarter,more caring, better at sex than I am. Oh I forgot the clincher STBX told me 2 yrs ago she will be a great influnce on the boys, especially OS. The perfect woman<p>[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: sing ]</p>

My H is the WS, his OP:<p>Started the affair in June of 2000. Met on the internet. She professes to be a christian. Yeah right!<p>She was 49 and turned 50 in June. <p>She is married for 28 years to same man. <p>She was once quite heavy, 200# somewhere around there. <p>H says that the encounter on the internet started to become more in October. <p>In October, they e-mailed to each other, was not appropriate subjects.<p>In December H started calling her on cell-phone, we paid for all the calls.<p>In January, H bought her cellphone and us new cellphones and he paid for everything. Phone and her phone bills. <p>In February, when we were visiting his dad in her states (she lives 2000 miles away), H had a physical affair during his time there. (PUKE!)<p>My investigator found this to be the woman and her husbands bankruptcy problems. Found woman to have had another positive physical affair, and possibly a 3rd besides my husband. <p>In February, H and OP conducted themselves inappropriate on the cellphone.<p>In April, heard my H say to his OP 5 times on his cellphone outside one of our windows, that he loves her, gave her big juicykisses and hugs on his cellphone. H and I were going on a marriage encounter weekend that night, and he had to saygoodbye to his lover (I heard everything from inside the house), H pretend to make love to me at the encounter and then had nothing to do with me after returning home. <p>The OP broke the conversation on the phone with H in July, and basically called me at home and threatened me with suicide if my H and I were to tell her H. She wants to keep this affair a secret, since she has already had another physical affair for sure. H knows about that one.<p>She called me 2 more times to threaten me with suicide if we told. <p>I find this woman very manipulative, and coercing a person to do what she wants this person to do, right or wrong, she didn't care.<p>I find this OW nuts, not trustworthy, and I wouldn't call her a christian at all, maybe a backward christian in H*LL.<p>As for myself, I wouldn't want to be the OP, because of all the pain that has been subjected to BS, the kids, family, and friends. It is like the OP does not care about anything except what they are getting for themselves. I can't imagine what the OW H is going to think of his wife being in a second physical affair, and maybe a 3rd. I feel he has a psychotic, (horney) woman on his hands. I basically hate her, and wish she was taken to another planet so she doesn't destroy another family. <p>A OP only becomes one because of selfishness. I can't see any other reason for their behavior. Especially, if there was more than one affair. Supposedly they are to learn from their first affair, but when it goes to 2 or 3, there is something psychologically wrong with the person, maybe medication is needed to balance their mind.

Hi, Marry - I don't post on here too much anymore, but decided to bounce back in to see what's going on. Perhaps my responses will give you something, but I doubt it. Each OP is unique, just like other people. Most are rather sane, caring individuals who really don't mean anyone harm. There are some, however, who are not. Anyways, H's primary OW (the one he lived with):<p>
1. age when started: 27-28?<p>2. How they met: at a bar. Both were pretty sloshed.<p>3. Did she know he was married before she met him? Yes. I might add that H told her that he had been separated for a long time and was getting a divorce - not that I knew this, understand. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] She found out very shortly afterward that he was lying.

4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started? Have no idea. According to her parents, she has always had psychiatric problems and refused treatment.<p>5. Affair length--11 mos. plus (insert sign for projected infinity) of unsolicited contact on her part.<p>6. Any contact with you: yes. Anonymous emails, hang-up phone calls, email, sent over all of her correspondence with my H when they broke up. Not a good sport! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.: Adoptive parents married, but suffered major abuse as a child. Was adopted as an older child and was very difficult for the adoptive parents to manage, due to psychiatric problems.<p>8. education: still an undergraduate in college, 12 years and counting now. <p>9. Job: Part-time clerk.<p>10. Add anything else you know that may shine light on OP: Started off rather sane after her break-up with my H; I actually liked her, and could understand the attraction. Then started to get creepy and stalkerish. Still calls every once in a blue moon leaving raving, drunken phone messages. Tires on H's car mysteriously "flat." Whateveh! Parents called and apologized for her behavior - apparently, this was not the first married individual she's been with. The phone call with her mother really touched me. They really do care about how she turns out, but their hands are tied.<p>HTH,<p>belldandy

confused%insecure,
Thanks for your post. I can tell that you are still in pain. What is going on in your marriage?
Who ended it? I do understand that these things seem to"just happen", but I do feel that there is a point in any relationship that one does "know" that this is getting dangerous.
My daughter met him on line. He listened to her life story and accepted her unconditionly. They met after only one week. She knew he was married with 4 babys yet she persued him and he her. In this case I can't accept the "just happened" theory.
I have to learn to love her in a new way. she knows what we think we have been at this for 2yrs now. We are in Plan A with her, trying to love her back to reality. There is nothing else I can do anyway>
I'm sory for the pain this A has caused you and the other people involved. Thanks again.

Marry,<p>Be proud of yourself for being so tolerant and concerned. I know that if I had been an OW, my entire family would have cut me off completely until I came to my senses, and moreover, I would have really had to do some serious spadework to get back into their good graces. I really do think that played a big part in how I became who I became, and that it is not a bad thing. The love and acceptance of my parents and family does mean a lot to me, and I *don't* want to let them down! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am not a parent, but I know that many parents feel that how their children turn out is a reflection of them - I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would draw this correlation, aside from a few narrow-minded, bigotted folk. Whatever you do, please don't feel as though this is your fault, okay? <p>blessings,<p>belld <p>P.S. Nah, don't believe the old "it just happened" line. It sounds just as goofy as it really is.

Hi, Marry. It certainly is not your fault that your d. turned out to be someone's OW. If it were your fault, you wouldn't even be here today on this board trying to find answers.<p>My H. left me and our three kids in the fall of 98. As far as I know he is still (marginally)with the OW but seems in the process of searching for a new girlfriend. The last thing he wants is to return home to me and to our kids.<p>His OW? <p>Age: 36. Affair commenced when she was 33, but she and H. have known each other for years (according to him), they worked together in hospital, so for all I know, an EA was probably cooking years before the PA began.<p>Divorced (her first marriage lasted only 2 years) with one child. Her first husband left her while she was six months pregnant with their child.<p>Family Background of OW: Don't know for sure. Her parents are divorced. Mother is a teacher's aid at a local high school. Father appears to be ineffectual as a man, seems weak, possibly alcoholic. <p>I did have one conversation with OW's mother two years ago on New Year's Eve when I was trying to track down my H. The mother was apologetic, yet defensive of her daughter's behavior. When I said to her "Do you approve that your daughter has been involved with a married man?", she answered "But you don't know what he's been telling her." <p>OW's mother told me that both her daughter and my H were "adults, and they're going to do what they want to do," which is certainly true. However, I noticed that OW's mother was available to babysit OW's daughter whenever she and my H were getting together. To me, that is unfledged SUPPORT for her daughter.<p>She also told me that her daughter "has had a hard life." Yuck. Someone give me a bucket!
Then, as if to make me feel better, she said "They (OW and my H) don't really see each other all that much." Oh, please. <p>She ended our stilted conversation by saying that she felt sorry for the children involved in this mess and added, "Yours, too." Her last words to me were "God bless you." <p>I really know very little about OW's family background, sorry.<p>Education: Registered nurse. Fired from last two positions as ICU nurse and as ER nurse.<p>Now working in a weight management clinic. My H. has been the one subsidizing her off and on for the past three years. Yuck. It makes me want to throw up. He even pays for her cellphone bill.<p>Character & Morals: Well, it speaks for itself. She became involved with my husband while he was still living at home with me and the children (who were 6, 8 and 11). This continued for almost a year until I finally forced him to move out unless he dumped her and dropped the divorce action. <p>OW is selfish, willful and manipulative. Most of them seem to fit into this category, but not all. <p>Finally, from what I have heard about her from people who used to work with her she is unstable and continually gets herself into bad situations. Also, I believe, based on my H's erratic, unstable behavior since he left us and from what I've heard about OW, that both she and H are drug users, probably "legitimate," prescription drugs. Rumor had it that OW was fired for stealing narcotics from the narcotic cabinet at the hospital where both she and H worked. H. still works there, incidentally.<p>Okay, hope I answered a few questions for you though much of it is based on speculation and conjecture.

The OW in my life moved from one end of Canada to the other just months before she met my H. She was ten years older than my H and lied to him about her age. Her H was in a new job and working shift work, she was alone in a new place, new job with two young boys. She knew he was married but did not care because she was married also. <p>She instigated affair and my H fell for it hard. She had been married three times and as tired of her husband again. I believe now that this is how they fix their marital problems one or the other cheats and they break up and get back together. I heard that her husband had an affair just before they moved out to Alberta.<p>She was a shallow, self centered individual who did not care about anyone but herself.

JR,
Well on thing is for sure, this crosses all classes of education and jobs. I'm so sorry for you. Do you have any kids?
Thanks for posting and welcome to MB. Be sure to go over to "just found out" and read AAAAALlllll the material you can. You are certainly at the right place.

The OW in our relaltionship is a 28 year old flight attendant. <p>She is pretty unattractive with a supposedly high sex drive.<p>States she has never found someone to love that is so kind, considerate of others feelings and caring.<p>She also knows he is married, has 4 kids and has broken our hearts. She doesn't care. I suspect H has feed her with all sorts of lies.<p>H told her he loved her after screwing her for two weeks. Guess that is all.

Well, I guess I hadn't thought of myself as being the OP... I suppose I was the OP as well as the WS... becuz not only am I married but so was the OM.<p>I think that when things in our marriage are missing and we don't know how to get them back...or have tried and feel that we can't get them back...that we become vulnerable. Call it a lack of self-esteem... call it wanting to be young and sexy again... call it wanting attention and craving more of it... I'm not quite sure.<p>I DO know that I chose the wrong path tho. They say that sometimes an affair can become addictions... (remember Fatal Attraction?).... well, I do believe that they can become an unhealthy addiction. Even though I KNEW this man wasnt a good person for me.... I was sooo attracted to his virility...his macho-ism or something... and the fact that he was sooo attracted to me! Made me feel giddy and like a school-girl. But.... the dark side of it all..... after I had been around him..... after we had to go our separate ways into our own lives.... I felt an emptiness... <p>The emptiness stems from having some needs met...'for the moment'....not forever...<p>ok, wait, i'm rambling.... let me answer the question...ha!<p>You want to know my profile??? I'm a very sweet.. (innocent looking)...active PTA Mom... sports Mom.... mother of 3 kids... church-going... college-educated and have a professional job... I was in a sorority at college... I grew up in a loving home (parents were married 50 years).... I have NEVER once cheated on my H before... (and NEVER will again)... my H is a Little League coach.... <p>Probably NOT the kind of picture you would expect. In fact, I'm probably the LEAST person that people would expect. I'm a bit shy at times... but I do enjoy having friends and getting together with them. <p>Sad... I NEVER thought of myself as the OP... because in my mind... OM's marriage seemed doomed to begin with....and mine seemed so empty and full of anger and resentment. Sad... the mind can believe what it wants to believe, ya know? I look back on it and wonder how I could have been so stupid...and risked sooo much....

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ConfusedMom:
Sad... I NEVER thought of myself as the OP... because in my mind... OM's marriage seemed doomed to begin with....and mine seemed so empty and full of anger and resentment. Sad... the mind can believe what it wants to believe, ya know? I look back on it and wonder how I could have been so stupid...and risked sooo much....<hr></blockquote><p>Hi ConfusedMom,<p>What did the MM tell you about his marriage and his wife that made you believe it was doomed from the BEGINNING? <p>I am not flaming you or your post, honest Hon. I know this is typical of the WS to tell the OP lies about their marriage history and their spouse's shortcomings. They embelish, for lack of a better word, the smallest faults of the BS and tell the OP how unfair and bad their BS were to them. Altho, I do know there are legitimate complaints they share with the OP, but I suspect they blow those out of proportion as well.<p>ConfusedMom, was your marriage really as bad as you told the MM it was? I'm just curious, and trying to figure out what my XH truly believed within himself about our marriage.<p>Thanks for your help, ConfusedMom.<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Sorry, duplicate post. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

My wife's OMs were either married (2) or divorced (2). She met them all in bars or nightclubs. Both of the divorced ones have kids, and one of those has custody. That last one, I can't quite figure out.<p>I don't know a great deal about them. They're just entities.<p>- Tom

Well, he said things like....he never really wanted to marry her..that she had gotten pregnant (the first time she had an abortion), but the next time he felt he needed to marry her.<p>He said that she had an affair before...and that they rarely had sex these days....yada yada.... and that once his son was older, they would probably divorce. (NOT that I wanted to marry him....he would be an AWFUL husband! and i KNEW that!!!)<p>Then...course he threw in the complements to me...like...'he had never met anyone quite like me'... 'if only we had met sooner when we both didnt have commitments'.... it begins to make you feel like star-crossed lovers destined to always be apart...Romeo and Juliet type of thing.<p>But.... when reality of the world sets in... the fantasy just isnt there, ya know????<p>Another thing.... my H and I had argued alot... we both had alot of resentments...and my H had a real anger problem.... well... I'd talk to the OM about 'things'.... he became a confidant, I spose... which distanced myself even farther from my H...and boosted the OM in my eyes.<p>However, i know now...that the OM would NEVER or could NEVER be the man my H is. I just hate that I've hurt my H and myself over all this.<p>Ask away if you have more questions.....

My H and I were both the OP/WS's at one point. We've been M 10 years. Our first and only marriages, so far [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'll start with my H:
Age 31..with OW when started, age 29.<p>His last A lasted 2 years, H still in love with OW<p>Lived in an abusive home. Father abused the whole family P and E, cheated on his mother, and gambled. H's father was killed by one of my H's older sisters when H was only 7 or 8. H's parents were M 17 years at the time of his father's death.

Been in the military since 18 years old.<p>H has very low self esteem about himself. <p>OW was a single 20 years old when their A started. It started out as a EA. They worked together. She knew H was married.<p>My H has had over 32 A's/one night stands since we've been M.<p>Now me:
Age when I had my A, 28.<p>Parents M over 34 years, still going. Very good childhood. I'm a military brat.<p>OM was M and I knew. OM knew I was M too. OM was 24 and the A lasted about 1 year. We met in a dance club that OM worked at. I believe OM's parents were divorced, but H was very close with rest of his family. No contact with his father though.<p>
I can't say what made my H cheat on me all these years. I can only speak for me. I chose to cheat on my H. I could have walked away, but I didn't. The A had been building up for about 5 months before we became intimate. We were very P attracted to each other and we chose to act on it.<p>Did I think of my H when it happened, yes, constantly, but I stepped into a deep fog and it took about 2 years for me to come out. There was nothing the OM could offer me except attention and admiration that I craved. My H was never around. The OM gave me time. I can only say that now. I was seriously addicted. I lost weight and thought I was one of the sexiest W on earth...still do [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Anyways, back then I would probably have told you that he could be my next H. I left my H for 6 months when my A ended. It left me feeling empty inside and it took a while for me to come to my senses. Now my H is going through this same thing....maybe I haven't come to my senses [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] ... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] My H says that if or when we D, he'd probably look for the OW or for someone like her [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Dumby, hopefully, he'll be smart and choose an older W or someone his age...someone like me.. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>A's just don't happen. Your D made the choice she did and probably fell in love. The fantasy is like a drug and being in love is the addiction. It will have to be up to your D to pull herself out of it. If she doesn't, it will end on its own and she may not like how it does. Just continue to love her as you do and be patient. Don't judge her. She needs you now more than she knows.<p>Take care Marry,
Clouds