Everyone,<p> I am not looking forward to Thursday. I didn't add that my WS called my parents house right after I left the OM's house. She talked to my mother about her having the kids on Wed. She is working on Thrusday just like last year. I talked to my lawyer's office yesterday and told him about my little trouble this weekend. I talked to them about starting to draft up the final papers. I will get her stuff to her this weekend. I don't know if they will be ready or not, but it almost seems like she wants me to divorce her so she can run around and say that I divorced her. I already am the bad guy to everyone that she knows. I was the reason that this happened. Am I doing the right thing here or am I overreacting?<p>Indy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong>...it almost seems like she wants me to divorce her so she can run around and say that I divorced her. I already am the bad guy to everyone that she knows. I was the reason that this happened. Am I doing the right thing here or am I overreacting?
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Indy,
Of course SHE wants you to go on with the div. junk, so she can say YOU were the one who divorced her....this way, it eases her conscience a little bit. See? DON'T FALL FOR IT....<p>Stay strong, man. You have come so far. DON'T "jump" to her music all the time. Stay strong. Be a rock. Have the strength of your committment. Your commitment to your M, to her. She doesn't see it now, BUT she can't! She's in a fog. <p>Don't jump everytime she changes the tempo....this is a dangerous "dance" you are involved in. It will make you crazy. If you know what you want, FOCUS on that, and don't let stuff make you waffle. <p>If you continue to "jump" every time she says so, you WILL end up div. STAND against this craziness. She's too confused to dictate to you what you should be doing. She THINKS she knows what she wants. And then sometimes I wonder if she doesn't "push your buttons" just to see if you're strong enough to hang on and fight for her (NOT literally!). Look at the big picture, and get your eyes off the small stuff she keeps throwing at you which is keeping you off balance. This is the "game." Take yourself out of the game. Stay focused, stay calm, stay strong, stay above it all.<p>Lupo

Indy,<p>ditto what Lupo said. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>See? I'm here. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Relax a little bit, and try to move forward and enjoy life and your kids. I know it's hard. I'm dreading the holidays also. Talk to your lawyer about what you need to do to protect yourself financially and hold your w responsible, but you don't want to be the one to file D, do ya? If she wants it so bad, let her do it. She has to face reality that leaving a marriage is not easy, and affects and hurts a lot of people.<p>Faith1

Sorry double post.<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

She THINKS she knows what she wants. And then sometimes I wonder if she doesn't "push your buttons" just to see if you're strong enough to hang on and fight for her (NOT literally!).<p> Do you really think that she is doing that. I have heard that she likes to put me through this. She wants to get the kids tomorrow. She wants me to call and leave her a message about where she can pick them up at. I won't be here when she drops them off. I am going to go out with some friends. That will keep up the no contact, but I really feel that she is ok with all of this. I don't think that she feels guilty about this at all. <p> I am trying to hang on, but here is a question for you. She has asked me to let her go. She said if I loved her as much as a say I do I would let her go. Doesn't that mean getting the divorce overwith? <p>Indy

Indy,
Yes, she believes that you should let her go. But "letting go" is what you are working on - by Plan A'ing and Plan B'ing. BUT, let her be the one to move the D along. Let HER be the one to fire the final fatal bullet into the marriage, not you. Don't let her always be able to say "Indy divorced me". YOu still love her and want your marriage, so why would you file?<p>(Remember my e-mail to you the other day? About my situation?)<p>Faith1

Faith,<p> I still want the family. I want that very much. I am calling the county court house tomorrow to make sure that the garnishment of her wages has gone trough. I an going to atleast make her do that much. I don't know about the D papers. I was thinking about writing her a letter telling her that she was the one that wanted the divorce then she needs to finish the job if that is what she wants.<p> On another note. I was thinking about getting her stuff and driving it out to her in my Blues and saying that I came from work. Just to see if she even notices or not. Or should I make her come and get the stuff. What do you think?<p>Indy

Indy,<p>Sorry for not responding sooner. Been out of town. Hey, she wants you to let go of her??? You know, I had that same speech. So I told my H that he can go ahead. Now I did the D walk, checked stuff out, did my research, consulted a lawyer, even got another place to live. <p>Then I told him he would have to do the letting go. Go ahead with the D, I said. His next excuse was that it was too hard. Hmmmph.... couldn't be too hard, OW was doing all the leg work (and then some - LOL!!! old legs at that!)<p>Nope, when push came to shove, he didn't have the guts to put his money (which he didn't have much of anyway) where his mouth was and the D never happened (at least not yet!). <p>So what I am saying is that you should not do things for her. She wants the D let her go get it. She wants the kids, let her fight for them. She wants her stuff, let her come get them. <p>Don't volunteer to D her, don't give her your children (you may not have jurisdiction over your SD - don't worry - your kids can keep tabs on her for you), don't take her, her stuff. This is real life Indy, you don't have anyone doing that for you so don't let her push your buttons. <p>Look sharp, handsome and be loving to the kids. <p>Take Care,
L.

Orchid,<p> I don't want to LB. Even if that is still possible with her or not. I will give her the stuff. She will like you said have to come and get it. I will make her come up here. How should I tell her that I have it ready for her?<p>Indy

Indy,<p>E-mail, leave a message. You decide. Probably direct contact is not the best thing right now. Whatever you feel comfortable with. Remember she may try to push your buttons. So avoid that as much as possible. It is harder when children are involved but not impossible. <p>L.

Indy,
weyelllll.... hmmmm..... I wouldn't write that note you are thinking of, nor would I take her stuff to her. I can understand why you would like her to see you in your Blues. But I just don't know that it would get the reaction you are looking for. If you were in Plan A, I'd say do it. But you are trying to avoid contact.<p>whattya think?<p>well, I took a long time typing this reply - in betwween doing something else..... tee-hee. funny, orchid came on anyway [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] hehe<p>Faith1 [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Everyone,<p> Sorry that I feel off last night. I laid down to watch TV and feel asleep. My WS called this morning at the office and I told her that I couldn't talk right now and hung up the phone. She didn't call back or call me on my cell phone. I left the message last night about my son getting out of school early today and that she needed to pick him up early. She didn't show. My son and dad are out doing things and I wonder if she is even goning to pick up our daughter or not. I guess we will find out.<p>Indy

Indy,
You are so predictable ... I could see pattern in your time of posting ... Lunch break ?. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL<p> I guess we will find out. <p>Good thing that you are stronger now. My WW just cut the phone converstation ... OM brain wash her since her top EN is conversation, jealous!. She will say the cell battery runs out. I will not LB and just chewing a few redvines to let out. Keep posting, specially on the holiday it is kind of bummer.

Everyone,<p> She called again and when I answered I hung up the phone this time. Then she imediately called back and my boss answered the phone. He told me that she was on hold. I told him that I sent her a letter telling her that she is not to call me at work anymore unless she has the kids and it is an emergency. He left her on hold for awhile and then told her that I didn't want to talk to her. I hope that wasn't a bad thing. <p> My father called me and told me that if she called that I could give out his cell number to her to call about getting the kids. I told him first of all she has your cell number. Second, I told him that She called earlier in the day and everything. He said that it is imnportant for the kids to see her and I replyed she needs to learn that life doesn't revolve around her. She needs to learn some responsiblity. Was I wrong?<p>Indy<p>[ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>Now it get to her ... a new and improve Indy [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... you are in plan B and you have to start also protecting yourself. You are doing the right thing. You are not blocking her to see the kids just some considerations. She might get use to your plan A that you go out your way to do it.<p>Be strong Indy and happy thanks giving.

Indy,<p>So now your supporters are showing their support for you. Your boss and father are doing what they can. Good, let them help out where and when they can. Your W will start to find that she can not manipulate everyone like she has done to you and the kids. Remember you wouldn't take this kind of conduct or attitude from anyone else either right? <p>This is the rough part of plan B, but let your supporters shoulder some of the brunt work. They can handle it. Take care of Indy so you can take care of your children. <p>L.

Faith,<p> I hope that my boss telling her that I don't want to talk to her wasn't a LB in her eyes. I hope it was more of reality hitting her. She wants the kids tomorrow. The only reason that I know is because she talked to the kids and they came and told me to call her about it. I told them that it was between me and mom. Was that wrong?<p>Indy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong> I hope that my boss telling her that I don't want to talk to her wasn't a LB in her eyes.
I told them that it was between me and mom. Was that wrong?
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Indy,
I guess Faith and a whole lot of other people from here are actually gonna have a "holiday" today.<p>Indy, have you read the concepts on the home pages here? Are you in Plan B? If you are, then you are in NO CONTACT. There is NO LB in Plan B. You don't have anything other than the end of her A to talk to her about (unless it's an emergency w/kids.) Period. Stop worrying so much about how she'll take your comments, actions. It doesn't matter.<p>What matters is that YOU are healing, moving ahead. It's THAT change in you that she is going to respond to, if she responds at all. As Orchid said, you have supporters to help you. Let THEM be in contact w/her about the kids as much as possible. This is new. It's uncharted. It's difficult. I know. I'm facing it, too. BUT it's a necessary step. The hurt is too deep to continue in contact while they continue to live "outside the bounds" of our M's. <p>Please have a good day today, and try to focus on YOU and your children having a good time. Remember, those children are looking to YOU for stability and strength through this upheaval in their lives.<p>I pray daily for you, and other friends here on MB. Please rely on God's strength during this difficult time, made all the more difficult because holidays such as these are times when we WANT to and SHOULD be with our families. It hurts when the one who should be closest to us doesn't want to be with US. But it's about THEM, and it's THEIR loss, NOT OURS. Remember that.<p>Also remember they WILL feel it, even if we don't know about it. They WILL miss us, even if they don't admit it to anyone. Make it a great day for your kids! I'm sure gonna try to.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Lupo

Hi, Indy!
Happy Thanksgiving!
I'm checking in for just a few minutes this morning, then I'll be back tonite sometime.<p>I think you are doing fine. Very good advice from redhat, orchid and lupo on your recent questions. Indy, you are sooooo sweet and you don't want to hurt your W or kids. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] What a good man you are! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I can understand that. But you are in plan B and no contact is ok, and is not an LB. You have explained to her why you don't want contact. I think you are so much stronger than you were. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You told your kids it was between you and her? was tht about her seeeing them or the hang up at the office? Doesn't matter... I'm just wondering. I think it was ok to tell your kids that, because its true. But please reassure them of your love for them and Mom's love for them. I guess I'm wondering if they were upset at all, or the reason for bringing it up to you. <p>You're doing great! And please keep reading and posting. Lupo had a great suggestion on brushing up on the MB site principles. Keep posting your questions and anger. That's what we're here for.<p>Have a wunderful day with your kids and your family. Are you having dinner with your parents? Think of all the things you have to be thankful for..... they're there.... I promise. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'll check back in a few minutes, then I'll be out all day.<p>Here's a friendly THanksgiving hug for ya... {{{INDY}}}.<p>Faith1

Indy,<p>I'll be around today if you need. Hope you are able to spend time with your family. <p>Just a short comment about plan b and being a parent. IMHO, you should allow yourself contact on certain items. For me, being in plan B allowed contact for mail, child visitation and money matters. That was it, short and sweet. All that sad face attempts to draw me into to other conversaion were met with a polite stone face. Now my hard part was not asking about what they (WS & OW) were doing. <p>I did notify WS that my communication would be limited so for me I did not have to use a 3rd party. But I did secure a 3rd party (in fact 2 of them) and have them on standby. H did not want to use his BIL and my cousin as a 3rd party. <p>The point is that my boundary was set by me. It was hard for me as well but in about 3 weeks, the A world started showing signs of crumbling. <p>What we both (WS & I) did not realize was that I was meeting WS's needs, hmmmph.... that is what plan B does, it stops those needs. <p>That is why plan B can make it go either way basically plan B forces a change. This stagnant position the WS puts the BS in of the BS being around for the convenience of the WS is hogwash. Plan A is the initial attempt to deal reasonably and show love. Plan B shows love but on a limited basis and puts a boundary around that love to protect you. You are basically letting her know that her actions are hurting you and you are having to protect yourself and family as a result. <p>You know what? We do plan B with others everyday. It is easier because love for others are not as strong as love for our families. When someone crosses our boundaries (whether at work, out and about, whatever), we let them know (either verbally, with body language, facial expression, or even by a 3rd party - ex: 'excuse me but could you please put out your cigarette? I have asthma.').<p>So plan to have some contact just not be a doormat. You are too good for that.<p>Take care,
L.