Indy,<p>Just to wish you happy thanks giving ... I will check in and out during the day. Happy gobble gobble.<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Everyone, <p> Thanks for the support. It has been a all around good day today. It was hardm but we made it. I hope that all of you had a good day today. It was hard though at times. I would have a flash back to how great Thanksgiving Day was last year. She called today while we were gone. She told the kids how much she loved them. What a crock that is. She has really shown how important the kids are to her lately hasn't she. She also still thinks that she can just call and pick up the kids when ever she feels like it. Sorry, I am taking the kids to breakfast tomorrow morning. I guess she will be disappointed tomorrow when she gets here and we aren't. Like I said before. I hope that everyone had a good turkey day.<p>Indy

Indy,
My day is not bad at all, my WW came home in the morning when I was about to give up on her and bring the kids somewhere else. She cooked Turkey and we watch 2 movies, the grinch and the mummy returned. I asked her to go to see Spy Game but she declined so I went by myself. 2 D fell asleep and my WW was also before I could start the planet apes. So I just lurking around MB.<p>Be strong Indy, she is trying and will try again you know. Be on guard, you know all her tricks and don't fall into it again.<p>She also still thinks that she can just call and pick up the kids when ever she feels like it. Sorry, I am taking the kids to breakfast tomorrow morning.
Good move. Your kid will judge her on his own, just be there for S and let him know that at least his Dad loves him. Did you find someone to bring kid to baseball practice for next year ?. Baseball dad ?. I read a reply to your post that someone (he) is willing to help you out. Plan it well from now, your kid might be able to join after all.

Thanks for the support guys. She called while the kids and I were eating breakfast this morning. I turned the cell phone off. Once I turned it back on I noticed that my parents had called. I tried to call back but they were already gone. I guess she probibly called here after I hung up the phone. Just wanted to let you know that breakfast was great both of the kids really enjoyed it. I have some things to do. I will check in later tonight.<p>Orchid,<p> I noticed that you said that you were going to be on the forum all day yesterday. Did you not have anywhere to go? I hope that you had a good day yesterday. I also noticed the OW on the other forum. I hope that everything settled out ok.<p>Indy<p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Hi Indy, <p>I stayed at home. H had to rush out of town to deliver some equipment to a hospital about 200 miles away. He was gone all day. He kept in contact all day with me. Even woke me up and said, 'why haven't you called?' That was kinda nice, except he interrupted my beauty sleep!!! LOL!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>We are hoping to be together as a family today. I am flexible about it. Been cooking this morning. <p>Since I was home, I thought I'd be on standby for MB. he he he!! Found out about a couple of OWs kinda tryin' to reek havoc of sorts. A few big sisters at MB (Cheryl, Jo, SusieQ, Oneday, Nina2, etc) and redhat helped out. Been thinking about how to handle future OP presence on the board. Yes, this is a free country but invasion with intent to hurt or promote bad ideas is still not a good thing. <p>This made me reflect some painful thoughts that yes, our spouses are actually WS' to us and possibly OPs to others. Yet I notice there is a different class of OPs, most come as WSs and try to learn for themselves. Even fewer come as OPs and try to learn for themselves (Katie Scarlett is a good example and I am glad she is here - her attitude is a good one). Then there are the ones like we are dealing with now and before whose primary objective is to further their personal cause with little care for others (they are not totally inhumane but sometimes you just gotta wonder - ya know?). I have been thinking about starting a thread about recommendations or thoughts about how to handle such type of the OPs who come here to advocate themselves (SL77)or breakup marriages (SM11). There were worse ones ealier this year. MB faithfuls took a stand and in some cases even with the administrators assistance they left and we are still here. YEA!!! <p>Ooops......rambling here. Thanks for listening. How was breakfast with the kids?<p>Take Care,
L.<p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Orchid,<p> I am glad that your H called you. I know that it made you feel important to him. Breakfast was great. Of course I still had my times. Especially when she called my cell phone. Were going to clean the car out now. I hope that the family get together goes well. Let me know what happens.<p>Indy

Orchid,<p> I noticed that you have been on the boards alot again. Did you go to see you H's family today? I hope that it went well. Today was ok. I feel alone but I have felt that for the last 9 months. It reminds me of something that STL told me back in Jun. The quiet time after the kids go to bed is the hardest. Well, for me it is when I am off work. I feel disconnected. I can't really explain it. I feel like I am in the wrong place.
Do you remember feeling this way when your H was gone?<p> I noticed a post about the WS calling his apt home. I find it hard to understand why she didn't call the OM's house home? I keep wondering about that. I think it may be my subconious mind telling me there is hope in this. I don't know. I was wondering what your take was on it.<p> Also, I noticed that Zorweb isn't posting to me anymore. Did I upset her? I hope that everything with her and STL is ok. Do you know anything?<p> One more thing. I don't mind listening to you or anyone else. You have all been there for me. I don't mind returning the favor.<p>Indy<p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>No you did not do anything to upset me. I’ve posted very little to anyone lately. But I have been reading your posts. You are in great hands … some of the best souls on MB are looking out for you. <p>That vacation to Orlando did wonders for STL and me. I got some very badly needed rest and we spent tons of wonderful time together. Made up a lot for the together-time we lost during the crisis with our kids. My normal smile has returned to my face 24/7. Yea!!!!<p>Since then work and the kids have really been eating up time. We’ve gone to visit son-14 in the residential treatment center (RTC) 3 times in the last two weeks. It’s an 8-hour drive to visit with him for 2 hours. That was how we spent our Thanksgiving too. My son-12 was with his dad for Thanksgiving. He also invited STL’s D-12 to spend Thanksgiving and today with them. It’s amazing how x-h has become more human now that he is engaged. (Though I feel very sorry for the sweet woman he is engaged to. But that’s another story.) That was great because STL and I were able to see son-14 without making the other two feel left out. It’s weird but we have also gotten some great time together on those long drives to/from the RTC. We’ve been talking and laughing our heads off on those trips. So guess it’s a way for us to sneak time together. STL, S-12, D-12 and I will celebrate our family Thanksgiving tomorrow, Saturday.<p>STL is going fine. He is still in his cave, wrapped up with the things he loves to do. I think that right now he is finding comfort in that stuff. We’ve been through a lot this year, with d-day being in March and then the problems with his kids surfacing in July/August. I think that both he and I are in a semi-hibernation mode. The difference between him and me is that he likes to go off to his cave, hibernate and work on his projects. I like to spend quiet time with the people I love. I do come here to MB because I do care for many who I’ve met here. I read their posts but have not had a lot of energy for posting. It comes in spurts like right now. I had signed on specifically to check up on you only to find out that you were asking about me. <p>STL loves computer games. So one of his projects’ is that he has made friends with the authors of some of the better-known computer games. They send him the games for free and he evaluates them (read plays with them) and writes up an evaluation, points out their bugs, and writes up enhancement ideas. The kids love it because they also get to use the free games. How’s that for a racket? So when he’s in his cave (his office) after work hours, he is often ‘working’ evaluating these games. Now if he could just get paid for it too??<p>Indy, it sounds like you are doing fairly well given the circumstances. I’m glad to see this because I was really worried about you. You are a great guy and will make it through this no matter what the outcome is.<p>Z

Z,<p> Thanks for responding. It is good to here from you again. I was wondering if something else was going on. I hope that STL's son is ok. I know that it must be rough having a child hurt themselves like that. Let me know if there is anything that I can do for you or STL. I am going off line for right now. I will check on you later.<p>Indy

Hiya Indy,<p>I got my quiet time now. H is off delivering TV shows to various stations around the state. Son is at SILs for an over night visit. I just hosted dinner for SIL and her family here. So it is just me by myself. I kinda like it. <p>I will respond to some of your questions:<p> SIL's family was over tonight and for the 1st time, H had a small but friendly chat with his BIL. Last time we were together was when BIL was the negogiator and H walked out..... So this is an improvement. His siter watched him a bit. They were very close before all this stuff and she hurts real bad. She wants so much for her brother to come back all the way.....<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong>Orchid,<p> I noticed that you have been on the boards alot again. Did you go to see you H's family today? I hope that it went well.<p>**I posted a lot while I was cleaning and cooking today. I used it as my break. I had 2 little boys in my house today under my feet, so I would periodically escape here and post. <p> Today was ok. I feel alone but I have felt that for the last 9 months. It reminds me of something that STL told me back in Jun. The quiet time after the kids go to bed is the hardest. Well, for me it is when I am off work. I feel disconnected. I can't really explain it. I feel like I am in the wrong place.
Do you remember feeling this way when your H was gone?<p>**As far as that lost feeling. Yes, I know it well. I still don't go around and visit others like I used to. I have cut back on many social activities just because I don't feel comfortable. I still go out some but actually I feel safer at home. It is not always healthy for me but I feel safer. <p> I noticed a post about the WS calling his apt home. I find it hard to understand why she didn't call the OM's house home? I keep wondering about that. I think it may be my subconious mind telling me there is hope in this. I don't know. I was wondering what your take was on it.<p>**Probably she does not feel comfortable saying that and when she does it may be to test the waters of acceptance. One never knows about fogheads. <p>
Also, I noticed that Zorweb isn't posting to me anymore. Did I upset her? I hope that everything with her and STL is ok. Do you know anything?<p>**I see you already got your response from Z. Isn't she just like a mom? Knows what you're up to even when you think she isn't looking? LOL!!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Nah, Z was just busy. You are one of my adopted brothers, ok? Big sister Z had a date with STL, if you approve then we are ok. he he he!!!! <p>
One more thing. I don't mind listening to you or anyone else. You have all been there for me. I don't mind returning the favor.<p>**Indy, thanks for the support. No one here is exempt from receiving support. I have to remind some (not here but at home and work, that I am not a vulcan, my blood is not green and I do have a heart - which can abe hurt!!). Sometimes we appear so strong that others want to use us as a dumping and blaming ground. Well I have learned here that it is ok to be supportive but not necessary to be the garbage can or doormat. So I am learning to push back. <p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>**I just want to tell you that I am proud of your progress. Looking back can you see your progess? With yourself as a person and even where the WS stands today vs 4 months ago?<p>**I am also glad to see you lend a hand to others. Makes me Proud!!!!<p>Take Care,
L. <p>
[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]<p>[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Orchid,<p> How are you today? I saw your post about it being a year for you. I understand all about that. I am drawing close to mine as well. <p> My WS called alittle while ago my Dad answered the phone. She asked for me. She most likely just wanted to blast me for last week. She talked to the kids for awhile. That is not the bad part. She tried to use my 4 yr old daughter to ask if she could get the kids on Friday. I told my daughter that she doesn't need to worry about that and that she needs to talk to her mom. Is she desperate to talk to me. I would love to say that is true. I don't know. Maybe she is testing me yet again. What do you think?<p>Indy<p>[ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Hi Indy,<p>I am doing ok. It has been a bit hard but stubborn fool that I am, I am hanging in there. <p>As for your W, yes she probably is wanting to speak with you. Should she? Yes. About what? Now that is where you show your boundaries. Plan B says no contact but I plan B'd with limited contact and set my boundaries. Child visitations, mail and money. That is what I limited my contact to. Anything else, it was within my right to politely hang up the phone. <p>IMHO, you should revise your plan B to include contact about what YOU feel is vital. Then let her know. If she takes advantage of it, then go to a more restricted plan B and so on. <p>What do you think about that idea?<p>L.

Orchid, <p> Thanks for the quick reply. I need to get somethings done here. I would like to discuss this later tonight if that is ok?<p>Indy

okie dokie [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Orchid,<p> I am back now. I would love to talk to her. That is the problem. I miss her voice. I can't talk to her about anything. It still hurts to much. I don't know. With kids it is hard to do a proper plan B. I do find something odd. She asked for me first. Normally she askes for the kids. I don't know I am most likely reading into it. What do you think?<p> I forgot to add that she called again about and hour after she called the first time. My son answered the phone and brought the phone to me. I told him that I stil can't talk right now. Did your H do this stuff?<p>Indy<p>[ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]<p>[ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Bump. Looking for you Orchid.

Hi Indy,<p>Sorry for the late response. Had a few sickies in my house last night. <p>Yes, my H did that too, except he kept showing up at our house and mulling around. I kept trying to get him out but I did want to see him. For me it was hard since H was soooo skinny and sickly looking at the time. I kept feeling sorry for him. He kept coming by (for sympathy and missing us) but when I would try to help he would push me away. After a few of those, I told him not to come back and went to plan B. I did not do it well because for all the visiting he did (he said to try and see our son), when he got to our home he did everything but see our son. Go figure. More fog. <p>What is weird is that he does not really remember a lot of the junk that went on. In his mind he only remembers my trying to get him back. Funny, I plan A'd for 3 months but from a distance since he was out of the house. Then plan B'd for 1 1/2 months and he asked to come back within 2 weeks (oh yea, he kept asking off and on ever since he left!!)..... so I did not take his asking too seriously. I kept watching his actions like everyone said to and just didn't see it matching him wanting to come home. So I left him out there. When he started to panic, we began to have more meaningful discussions. <p>I would phrase it as, well how is your OW handling this for you or how do you plan to make this work? See he kept wanting me to fix everything (pay his bills, get the D, take care of son, assure him that I would be ok, etc.). How dumb!!!! I was not going to make it easy for him. While not being negligent, I started giving him his piece - separate insurance, separate credit card payment agreements, he would make separation/D, he would have visitation with son,he would repay family monies I used to pay his bills for prior months, etc.). Well that loving OW wacko certainly was not going to do all of that. Washing his clothes was all she had done for him at that point (1 load - the one she claimed had dog poop - remember that incident? - LOL!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ). wow, big help. <p>So if I was not going to do his stuff for him and OW certainly was not going to kick bucks in for him and do his things..... oh well, looks like the WS actually had to worry here. Well worry he did, right back to reality. Looks like I was filling some ENs and not realizing it. When I pulled back he came forward. <p>Oh yea, like dancing. Hm..... he wanted to be partners again and after a few false starts (stepping on my toes kinda thing), we started dancing. Still a little out of step (gotta go take some dance classes - aka counseling sessions) and maybe we'll be waltzing in a few.... I like the hula so maybe I'll be doing the hula and he'll be jumping through the firey hoops?!??!? LOL!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Orchid,<p> Listening to how you discribe your H panicing when you went into plan b. I dont' think that my spouse is that way. She has said to me and other people that she is happy that I went out to friend's houses when this first started. She said that I was starting to get over this. How do people change like this? I mean my spouse was loving and careing right up until she turned off in late Dec 00. I just don't know how someone can change like that. Do you have any insights to this.<p>Indy

Hi Indy,<p>Tears of a clown?!?!?! You real sure about it or is she good at putting on a show? I mean does this include her absence from her kids? She is happy about that also? <p>L.

Orchid,<p>You real sure about it or is she good at putting on a show?<p>I don't know that one for curtain. She is very good at covering her emotions. I don't know if you around then, but back in Jul my wife was gravely ill in the hospital. We weren't talking then. She had the friend that got us together call me to get the kids for her. I took them over there. She acted like I didn't exist. She also said in an angery voice,"How about answering the phone sometime." <p> I talked to this friend almost three weeks later and she said that she still loved me and that I need to turn my back on her. She knows that if her and the other man have problems that she could always run back to me. She said that if I did that I would most likely get a phone call, but it really pisses her off that I don't talk to her.<p> I also talked to her about the sametime as what was mentioned above happened. I asked her if she was happy. She said no she wasn't. <p> I mean does this include her absence from her kids? She is happy about that also?<p>That one is a complete mistery. I couldn't begin to answer that one. I mean look at her actions. This women asked if she could get the kids on her four day weekends. Has she? No, she only sees them one day a week. She has only had the kids overnight one time. She couldn't even take the kids to the OM's house for that. She had to take them to her friend's house.<p>Indy