ok....SNL:And chastising for things not part of recovery, such as a committment to lie.<p>ok...No one is telling her to lie. She just does not need to volunteer the truth.<p>snl...Sounds like something clinton would say, there is no functional difference between a lie of commission, or a lie of ommission. Both have the same goal, to conceal information...right? Tell me, if your spouse concealed something of huge importance to you, and their excuse (when you finally figured out maybe you needed to ask something of someone you has heretofore trusted) is that you never asked, is that acceptable to you? If so, you are one strange human being, I know of no one who finds acceptable the concealing of information just cause no one asked em.<p>dd...Part of the challenge will be to respond in truth if and ever confronted by her husband.<p>snl...Indeed, and explaining why she concealed something she obviously knew he expected to be told. <p>snl...And concealing truth is not manipulation? <p>OK: Nope.<p>snl...You lost me on that one. Obviously we have vastly different notions of manipulation. In my world it means acting against someone elses wishes to affect an outcome you want... not telling about an affair is about as manipulative as it gets....what is your definition of manipulation? <p>okieman....I don't support the notion of waiting around for a WS. There is no dignity in that.<p>snl...??????????? Uh, me either I guess. What did you mean?[/QB][/QUOTE]<p>OK: just a statement that most people find hard to accept in this forum. <p>snl...I hear ya, the doormat thingy, and I agree. The waiting period (plan a) for a ws should be fairly short, and one of increasing boundaries. There is little discernible psuchological benefit to enabling waffling behaviour on anyones part, you do the work, make a decision, and move on in life.....waiting stuck does no one any good.

To SNL,
I revealed my source of knowledge and truth. Now what is yours? I never rely on emotion to work through a problem. I think you do.

ok....I revealed my source of knowledge and truth. Now what is yours? I never rely on emotion to work through a problem. I think you do.<p>snl...Good question okie. I rely on several things. One is (like you) the revealed word of God. But I also think God means for us to use our brains and hearts...not to blindly follow mens interpretations of His word....that means of course people will differ on what God has revealed to us. But I also know we have freewill, and we have to make specific choices everyday, God is not going to tell us specifically what to do (although He might, on occassion). In order to make choices we need a body of knowledge to draw on, and I think we can trust the brains God gave us to do so. Therefore I also rely on science, and other logical efforts to understand us (human beings) and what constitutes a good choice, and what does not. That includes the field of psychology (as in the study of human behaviour, and what is healthy and what is not). Lastly I think God gave us the ability to act out of emotion for a reason. We can and do discern things emotionally that we cannot rationally. So I do think emotion is important (something I did not realize earlier in life). IMO one arrives at important choices by reconcilling these 3 sources of truth, the more you weight 2, or just 1 the more likely you are to err (as in have a bad outcome). For example people often stay in dysfunctional marriages for religious reasons (as they see it)....this violates freewill (cause you are blindly following one truth, when the other truths are screaming at you this is not good), for freewill to operate you must make a proactive decision, you cannot do that be following rules. Rules are never perfect, so following them only insures you will err eventually....and so forth and so on. It is not easy being proactive, and taking control of your life, and making choices responsibly (meaning considering all the truths available).....but it is the only way any of us have a chance at realizing the plan God has for us.

I'm going to hope in here as well..DD you said a couple of things that REALLY trouble me..<p>For one by your H's actions..That is ABUSE!!! (do a search on here for all the abuse threads..they will REALLY help you to read through them)<p>DD-I want to add this: I spent some time in a 12 step program and whole-heartedly believe in the tenets of it: one step is to make amends --i.e. 'fess up, atone, make good--but not if it will harm someone else. <p>TR-Okay...honestly..will telling you h harm him??
No it will cause him Absolutely no harm whatsoever..it will hurt him yes..but it won't cause him harm..there is a difference..<p>But in reading between the lines of your post that your H has been violent in the past (ie: breaking windows, punching holes in the walls) the fear isn't that you will Harm him...but that he might HARM you physically..and therein lies your fear of being honest with him..<p>Now..why are you so afraid that this man who is apparently, by your own words VIOLENT, that he will leave you?? I mean...honestly?? why are you afraid he will leave you?? Or are you more afraid of what he might do to you?<p>
DD-I'm ashamed of what I've done and I agree with you. I know that I've committed the worst crime against my marriage and truthfully, am afraid of its consequences...but I know that I would live through them in this life...it's the other one that I'm afraid of paying the price in.<p>TR- Actually, I wouldn't say this is the "worst" sin against your marriage..All sin is equal..in God's eyes..someone can put work above their marriage, they can put drinking above the marriage..they are all equal..none worse..none better..<p>DD-I can't see how hurting my husband and shaking his faith in me, our marriage, the life we've worked hard to build (and it's been a long hard road for us) <p>TR- hmmm..so his anger and violent outbursts builds love?? I see where it would cause one to fear another person...but not love for the person.<p>DD-just so I can feel better about what I've done. Truthfully, I think it's a cop-out (can we still say that? is it still hip?) to say I had an affair because HE didn't meet my needs...
I had an affair because I couldn't control myself.<p>TR- It's not that you would feel any better about what you've done..but you can forgive yourself..
and except God's forgiveness..it's not a cop-out to confess you made a mistake..it actually takes courage to admit you did something wrong..and to take responsibility for your actions..and if he can't forgive you for a mistake..no matter how bad he deems it..then he will have to live w/ that unforgiveness and bitterness inside himself..not you..<p>You will know that you asked forgiveness..(which is what the Bible says to do) and that because you asked..God will forgive you..He will not condemn you..<p>But I'd like to ask a question?? How much more control over you do you give your H than you give God? (in essence allowing your H to be God in your life) <p>I ask this so that you will look inside yourself for the answer.. 'I' did the same thing for years and years..I looked at what my now stbxh thought about me as more important than what God thought about me..yes God seen me as a sinner..but He doesn't throw it up in my face every chance He get's..he says..confess your sins..repent and I will forgive you..<p>He says..I know your a sinner..all people are But, I love You anyway..I know your not perfect,
I don't expect you to be perfect, But you can accept the forgiveness I offer through the shed blood of my Son Jesus Christ..and grow in Him to become more like Me..<p>We will never be God..so we will never be perfect..and nobody can expect us to be..
heck God knows were not perfect..and doesn't expect us to be..not in this life time anyway..
because if we were..why would we need Him???