By the way I hope you DO realize you are in a serious power struggle with your W who counts on you to NOT interfere with her desire for a 'friendly amicable' divorce dont you? Dont buy into it! This is why so many divorces happen- the less powerful and more distraught spouse just throws in the towel to the more demanding one. Dobson talks alot in his book Love Must Be Tough about this power struggle between couples- have you read that book? There are sample letters in there you could use as a guildeline write a letter to your W. I believe marriage is worth fighting for. Lack of respect between spouses can be corrected and lead to a better and improved marriage- I know as that is what my H and I are accomplishing this year. lifeismessy

lim,<p>I'm not sure about Ohio, but I don't think in Illinois a lawyer can make someone leave their home. It may have been different for you if you were likely to get the house anyway. In our case, we will have to sell the house. Neither of us has the money to buy the other out.<p>Question for you, should we put the house up for sale ASAP (in our area, it should sell in less than a week) or should I wait until I counterfile to see what her reaction is? I won't do anything until I meet with a lawyer. <p>Ever since she told me she filed, she's been very nice and friendly. Seems to be laying the groundwork for an "amicable" divorce. I won't fall for it.<p>sad dad<p>P.S. I have read "Love Must Be Tough", but it was 8 months ago. Probably need a refresher reading.

sd, what does amicable divorce mean to you? And why would you be opposed to such a thing? Amicable would seem to mean respecting each other (personally, and in financial/parenting terms), including each of our rights to choose not to be married to someone regardless of our reasons, and conducting the divorce process in a fair, equitable, and supportive manner. It continues to disstress me that spouses sometimes approach the spouse wanting to end the marriage in a combative way, even a punishing way, IMO this seriously belies any supposed love they have, and makes it clear they feel their spouse is property and/or "owes" them, obviously neither attitude has anything to do with love. I am not suggesting you have any bad attitudes at all sd, but I am curious why you seem opposed to an amicable divorce. It seems to me if you actually love someone, and they just don't want to be married to you, you would be supportive and friendlike in their search for their destiny...assuming of course they are also treating you (and your needs) with respect and caring (something I know is often not the case). It seems to me, the best possible way to divorce is amicably, and any divorce that is not amicable makes it even more clear the marriage was not healthy at all. I realize we are all human, and divorce is a rejection of sorts, but it is mostly about the person leaveing, not you.... still a little crabbiness and anger is understandable, but hostility and vengeange and wishes for an ill-life for the leaveing spouse really confuse me (by some, not necessarily you)....how is that love from the bs? It seems to me if you really love someone you would be as supportive as possible of them, and wish them well....right?<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

Well I did read what SNL posted to you SD- but i respectfully have to disagree. I believe that the reason divorce is so common today is that people have watered down what it means to be married and make a life-long commitment thru thick and thin, better and worse etc- obviously this is the WORSE part! When my H was in the process of divorcing me my mom who is wise beyond her years told me that I needed to 'be the grown-up ' until he snapped out of his selfish phase. I say the fat lady doesnt sing until the divorce court papers are finished, signed and on file- you are not there yet! You are still legally married with all that implies- and your W is too though she is in heavy denial about that right now.How has her life substantially been changed since she began her affair? Barely at all-she still has daily contact with your D- and enjoys all the benefits of married life yet runs off with OM every chance she gets. If it were that easy to have someone else without causing emotional pain to others and damage to our children-we'd ALL be doing it AND staying married at the same time! My advice to you is to force her to own up to HER part of your deteriorating marriage in the hope that she may quit deceiving herself that it wont be difficult and painful for both of you to end a marriage- especially one that has a child involved.The books I have read about WS point out they are in a rush to rid themselves of their spouse yet at some point they will have to process thru and grieve the loss of their marriage and life the way it was- why not have them do it BEFORE the divorce is final not later on! If and WHEN you are finally and fully divorced- THEN you can try to be amicable with one another but until then the fat lady has just been rehearsing for the big show! lifeismessy PS - DO consult a lawyer about having your W move out before you sell the house. I know in my case our house is new and very $$$ and we would have had to sell it but H would have had to move out way before that.My advice is to counter-file and see if you can get an order to have her vacate BEFORE you list the house for sale. That way if she changes her mind about the D- you'll still have the option of not selling your house. My H was all in favor of selling our home until he found out he would have to hunt for for his own apt right away. He visited a few and thought it over- and all of a sudden it wasnt as appealing as the thought of it had been. lifeismessy

snl,<p>I'm not going to get into a debate over defintions of an "amicable" divorce. But I think many marriages don't end amicably because all the cards are not on the table and both spouses are unwilling to take accountability for the part they played in it's demise. I am not the perfect husband. I've displayed behavior towards my W that was not deserved. I am accountable for that. On the other hand, my W was not honest with me when those behaviors began to take a toll on her.
She confided in OM about this, fell in love with him and is still involved with him. She has not taken accountability for that and continues to deny it to me and her family, and continues to chastise me to her family for even suggesting such a thing. <p>All I want is the truth. I want my W to say, "I'm in love with the OM, he make's me happy and I want to be with him" or something similar that applies. It would hurt like hell, but I'd respect her for being honest. I've stood by her this past year and if nothing else, I think I deserve the truth. Does she owe me that much? After 7-1/2 years, I think she does. <p>lim,<p>I echo your sentiments. My W's life has changed very little. She has her home, sees our daughter everyday, still has me to do the things I do (cook, clean, share the parenting duties, share my income, etc.), has OM to fill the needs he fills. Sure, I could simply step aside and let her find out if the life she wants now is really all it's cracked up to be 6-12 months from now, but by that time it will be too late. I will have suffered too much pain and will have likely moved on. My daughter will have suffered too. I can forgive for the pain I've suffered because I've brought some of it on myself. I doubt I could forgive her for the pain my daughter will suffer. <p>Many WS's leave, go and have their relationship with OP out in the open, see if it's everything they thought it was and deal with the day to day problems that arise in relationships. Sometimes it works out, more often it's not as great as they thought it would be and it doesn't. In a strange way I have some respect for WS's who do that because they're willing to take that chance.<p>For whatever reasons (shame, guilt, backlash from family & friends), she didn't. I wish she would have, in fact I somewhat encouraged it when I suggested we sell the house and separate. I am going to proceed as planned. No disrepsect, snl, but I'll follow Steve Harley's advice here. She needs to face up to what she's been doing and the reality that goes with it. That reality is losing her home, financial losses, possibly losing custody of her daughter or at least not seeing her everyday, and losing me. That may not seem to be a great loss, but it is. If that doesn't change anything, then divorcing is the right thing for both of us. <p>sad dad<p>P.S. Day 4, still haven't been served. I have an appointment with a lawyer on Tuesday and an appointment with Steve on Thursday.<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: sad dad ]<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: sad dad ]<p>[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

wow, sd. good response [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>how ya doin? You around this weekend? <p>I dunno what my H is up to. He wanted to meet this past Monday to discuss negotiation of settlement. I haven't brought it up again. Neither has he. I dunno if he's having 2nd thoughts about filing (due to spending thanksgiving with his family or something), or if he just has been too busy to fool with it. This time is soooo weird, cuz I haven't gone to Plan B, but I'm not sure how to Plan A.<p>Do you feel like me??? like I want him to go ahead so we can get this over with? but at the same time, let him take his time in case he wakes up and the fog clears???<p>It's a really weird time I think... like my love bank is draining, but I'm open to him coming home and making efforts to rebuild.... but I can't plan A any longer..... right now... wondering what he's doing....<p>I mean I know he's with OW... I've seen his car there all the time... but I mean wondering what he's doing as far as the D....<p>7 and 1/2 years?? when is your anniversary? ours is 12/29... 8 years. wow. and his b'day is 12/21. hmmmmmmm.... gonna be a tough month.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Faith1

Faith1,<p>I was wondering where you've been. Yeah, this is a strange time. I keep wondering why the sheriff hasn't returned to serve me the papers. Maybe he only does it on Mondays.<p>Have you thought about plan B? It may be time. If you get a chance, I posted a first draft of my plan B letter. It's probably a couple of pages down. I'd like your thoughts. I'm steeping out for a while. Be back soon.<p>sad dad<p>P.S. Anniversary is 5/18.

yes, I've seen your Plan B letter. I'll go read it and give you my feedback. Sorry.... I've been in my own fog.... ummmmm "world" lately. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My Plan B letter is ready to give. I didn't post it for feedback... I guess I shoudl, but I took it almost word-for-word from an old Plan B sample. <p>yes. I had decided to go to Plan B this past Monday when he tried to set up a "negotiation" time. Since he didn't do that, I've been waiting on his next move. I'm really surprised he hasn't pushed forward. <p>I was all ready to Plan A really well today... when I thought I was gonna see him to give him his mail. He cancelled on me (surprise surprise), so I msy need to push on with Plan B. I had some Plan A energy available for him today, but after he cancelled on me, that withdrew more LB units.... so I may go ahead and Plan B. I feel foolish giving him a Plan B letter, since we hardly ever communicate anyway. But mY love bank is nearly dry, and I KNOW the A continues.<p>sorry to start rambling. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .... I'll check out your Plan B letter and respond. I'm no Plan B expert tho... tis why I haven't responded.<p>[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

lim,<p>Nothing new to report over the weekend. My W went to a demonstration Friday night w/our daughter. She got home about 11:00 and I was on the couch watching TV, a movie was just starting. She put our daughter to bed and came downstairs and watched the movie with me. Neither of us had heard of the movie, it just happened to be on. I thought it was odd that she watched it with me. She's not one to stay up late and watch TV. Talked a little, but mostly just watched the movie.<p>I re-read some of your replies to this thread, and am more sure than ever that you're right. My W needs a big dose of reality at this point if anything is to change. She's had her cake and eaten too for a longggggg time!<p>Anyway, I let you know if the sheriff comes today and I'll let you know what my lawyer has to say tomorrow.<p>sad dad

Thanks for keeping me up to date on your life. I know your story is quite similar to mine and that's why I've been trying to help you- my advice I give is to try to SAVE your marriage- without accountability and honesty what kind of marriage would survive very long? I really believe that if my H had not turned around from what he was doing/inflicting etc on me I would have had to eventually move on with my life as he would no longer be able to meet my emotional needs and be a responsible father and husband. I can now see that my marriage today- 9 mo past d-day and 6 mo after marriage counseling really began for us our marriage is in a MUCH healthier and rewarding place than it had been before H's affair. The power struggle we were in for years before his affair is no longer a competition and H has stopped criticizing me and complaining every little thing- in return I am dealing with my depression/anxiety and dependency issues and trying to meet the needs he felt lacking from me. H is completely honest with me now and I dont feel I need to check up on his cell phone, bank accounts etc. like I had been before. I hope that eventually your marriage will be able to be re-made as ours is in the current process. I really believe if I hadnt stood up to H he would have continued to dis-respect both me and the the commitment to marriage he made to me 15 yrs ago. Take care! lifeismessy

lim,<p>Still not served. The waiting is soooo hard!<p>I retained a lawyer today. Told her what I wanted to do and she said she'd do whatever I wanted at whatever pace I want. I was worried she would try to talk me into making this quick and simple, but she understood my reasoning. That was reassuring.<p>She suggested not to tell my W I retained a lawyer and just wait to be served. After that I have 28 days to respond. That gives me time to get my info together and have her plan a course of action. Based on the little bit of info I told her, I definately have grounds for mental cruelty.<p>She said once we put the house on the market and have a contract on it, I could move out if I wanted with no custody ramifications.<p>I'm curious to see what my W's reaction will be when I counterfile. Also curious to see how OM reacts when he is called in for a deposition. They're both in for a serious dose of reality. Oh well, they made their bed....please excuse the pun.<p>sad dad

sd,
do you feel better after talking to the lawyer? I know I did. <p>Hang in there!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I am!!!<p>I still haven't been served. I've talked to H a couple of times, he hasn't brought it up. the waitingggggggggg.... ughhhhhh

Faith1,<p>Yeah, I do feel better knowing my lawyer will work with me and understands my goals. <p>sad dad

My W called me yesterday to ask if I hired a lawyer. Seems the sheriff has tried to serve me 3 times at work, but I only know of once. Maybe he went to the wrong address or showed up when no one was here. I'm sure my co-workers would have told me. Anyway, I gave her my lawyers address and told her to have her lawyer contact mine.<p>In the mean time I'll gather the info I have, organize it and present it to my lawyer. I'll ask her to respond to the D papers after Xmas. I won't do anything as far as selling the house until I see how my W reacts to me counterfiling.
It really doesn't make sense to put it on the market until after the holidays anyway.<p>sad dad