<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>
Honestly, around here, being the OW (or WS)is just as glamorous as closing that $300 mm deal. We do both all of the time. Often there is no honor in the things that we have to get done to close deals. It's not personal. It's just business.<p>Same it true with cheating. It's not personal.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p> Did someone here imply that affairs were glamorous? Even when I was single I thought affairs were scuzzy. This does illustrate a great example of why I can't have cold as ice, heartless, people with no empathy in my life. I might as well play russian roulette with a loaded gun every day. Who knows when it might be my turn to get the bullet? After all, "it's nothing personal". When might I accidentally get in way of something a "friend" like that wants? Lots of truth in the saying "With friends like that, who needs enemies." That type of person can turn on you in a flash and can never be trusted. Toxic poison. It's scary how many people like that there are in the world.
People do make mistakes. People do feel sorry for the pain they have caused and try to make amends. And then there are those who never care because it's "Just business." Anyone could be their next casualty.

fd,
we play this game knowing that there is no honor among thieves. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just pointing out that it is. That is exists.<p>All of us walked though these door saying "i'm just here to make money and get out." That's what I said. We all got dirty in the mean time. I have made my fortune and i'm out. [I'm retiring at 31.] And maybe i'm a trader for bringing "trade secrets" to light.<p>We get high off of it. There is NO question! You're closing the deal. You're buying your wife a nice house, your kids are in private school and you're driving a Benz. AND you're sitting with your family in church on sunday morning.<p>I, heretofore, thought "this is the way of the world." Then a very strange series of events pointed out to me "...maybe it doesn't have to be."<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>fd,
we play this game knowing that there is no honor among thieves. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just pointing out that it is. That is exists.<p>I, heretofore, thought "this is the way of the world." Then a very strange series of events pointed out to me "...maybe it doesn't have to be."<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p> I definitely know it exists. I lived with a musician for 5 years lol. Fidelity was not the norm in that world/lifestyle. The men felt like cheating was their God given right (even though they still lied about it like crazy) and the women felt like they had to put up with it . One of many reasons I knew I couldn't continue to live in that world. "It" wasn't going to change and I wasn't about to conform. We all have choices and who you choose to surround yourself with and emulate can make a big difference in how you live your life and the consequences that result. I find it much more relaxing to be amongst people who care about others, not just themselves.

LIE - This feeling (attraction) is to great to walk away from. It’s the strongest emotion I’ve ever felt for anyone.

Endeavor,
I don't that that feeling is a lie. I think having that feeling is ok. Strength of character come into play when you have to decide what to do about that feeling.<p>Feelings ARE NOT facts! (At least that's what i've learned)

I'm sorry I think telling someone you have that feeling as a reason for breaking your marriage vows is a lie. If that feeling is so powerful that you can’t stop yourself from doing something that you shouldn’t how come when the spouse finds out those feelings can be curtailed? How can someone who couldn’t stop before can suddenly stop and control those feelings? It’s because it’s a lie. The WS uses it as an excuse to justify to themselves and the OP as to why the affair isn’t wrong. It’s the same lie as calling the OP soul-mate.

E,
even if it's not a lie that's no excuse to break your vow.<p>I was shopping the other day and I saw shoes that I just HAD to have. Only problem was I had no cash and buying them would max my card. Now in my heart I thought, "but I HAVE to have them." That feeling was real. But having that feeling didn't mean that I should steal them and risk great damage to myself or others.

But if you could steal them if you were certain of not getting caught,no damage to anyone, would you?<p>The difference is stealing something like that you risk consequences to you and your son...Your xMM is risking the same kind of thing...You risked not alot in your EMA. You got what you wanted and needed,,,but it WAS at HER expense.The risk his,not yours.

If you want glamour and passion rent a James Bond movie. Oh, and remember, it's a fantasy. My H started going to casinos a few years ago and is in business where he makes big deals too. Funny thing scarlett, this W here is sometimes perceived as glamorous by strangers and even some neighbors. Problem w/what you say and what my H has been doing is this: it is an ADDICTION. Yep. You got that high, why? Adrenaline, the rush. I used to get the same feeling when working on emergency patients at hospital and when I competed in (and won)Miss America preliminary pageants in college. The thrill of just being able to do it and WIN or SUCCEED. Funny thing though, the crowns did not make me happy--they do not comfort me or anything like that. All they did was pump my ego. The rush from saving someone did not matter that much unless you actually got to meet the person later and then you were immediately brought back to earth and your eyes focused heavenward to God again. And my adrenaline rush--TEMPORARY. Just like you're job--we're almost the exact same age and you're retiring. At least some of your adrenaline rush is good and will benefit you and your child. Alot of us here read your posts and you are sooo the same. My H's OW is similar to you. Very similar. Oh, found out yesterday that they are most likely over. Remember when the rush ends, you are on a terrible low, waiting for the next high to come around. Hope that you keep seeing the single guy and get some counseling. We all have our issues here and are committed to work on them, though I see, as some others here have said, that you have no remorse for your actions. I do believe as some of the MB info does that addictions to A's and other kinds of behaviour are linked. I will not post again w/you, but want you to know that your words here, while helpful, are very hurtful to us here trying to live day by day just by faith alone. Faith in God, faith in the man or woman we married (not the addicted narcissistic one now) and faith in our families. If you are indeed trying to "turn it around" like another post I read from you, then do it. Start taking the steps. Sounds like withdrawal to me, though. We all like to have a rush now and then. But, bear in mind, that when you post here and are so non repentant and blatant and almost bragging, we do not indulge you. BS are not what you think we are. We are not all overweight, stupid, dull people who cannot keep friendships muchless romance alive. We may just be married to people addicted to something or someone we and they do not understand.

Sorry for the pulpit stuff there folks. Just sounded so similar to the horrible call I received from OW in October. Spent 3 hours trying to bring her to God and hear her tell me LIES. Here are some I told her that H said:<p>1) I (the W) am much better in bed. She (OW) actually cried over phone when I told her this. She felt betrayed. Imagine that?
2)That H and I were indeed still sleeping together sometimes when H came home.
3)That H had told me 3-4 times he ended it w/her.
4)that H and I were planning (before d day 2) exotic trip together, no child.
5)that one of our rooms in new house was for nursery to be.
6)that H said he would never marry her.<p>These are but a few that came into my mind. I am not and have not validated that they are over from H yet, waiting for good time to find out. How someone can lie to you and feel NOTHING about it is so wierd to me. No remorse. No guilt. Just, as I told OW, getting used. If WS was sincere he'd leave and D immediaely and marry OP. Stats show this happens not too often. As I've always been told, a lie begats a lie. Thank you fairydust for this opportunity to get my angst out and vent now. OW and OM--yes, you will also be betrayed. Can you handle it? Really?

worthatry,
I was reading the GQ posts and you said something about a letter for Plan B and I also saw other posts refering to a "contract" for plan A. I've read the articles, but haven't seen any printable letters or contracts. Do you know where I can find them?

Not Peachy-<p>I know that you might not even read this, but for what it's worth I never though that W's were "overweight, stupid, dull people who cannot keep friendships muchless romance alive." <p>As a matter of fact once I found out "real" details about xMM's W I discovered that she and I were/are VERY much alike. That's why I began to let go. I felt sorry for her. Not like in a pity kind of way, more like she's not the 3 headed monster I always thought she was. She was/is just a regular woman trying to live her life. And if I were married to him I would probably be acting/reacting the same way she was to some of the things that were going on.<p>It was really easy to live my life in a vaccuum. If she was bad and I was good then things were ok and the lies made since.<p>In truth I feel like she was just doing the best that she could under difficult circumstances, just like I thought I was. <p>I get the addiction piece. I've been sober for 8.5 years and ironically lead my xMM to AA. AA in NYC is chucked FULL of really really rich & famous people who drive it home more than anything "it's not about the stuff."

Katie,<p>Glad to hear that you understand about the addiction part. I am also glad that you are here to learn great ideas to work on your new relationship. Well, you must be the exception of OW. my H's OW thought that maybe we just didn't get along any more. Truth, that was none of her business in the first place and if we were not, then H should have come to me first. I fault them both 50/50. <p>What is happening to you is common upon becoming a mom. Suddenly so many things you never thought about before comes into your heart. I am definitely much kinder and gentler and more forgiving now that I am a mom. I believe that softening of my spirit and my faith is what has helped me want to work thru this horrible situation I am now in. Few years back, I'd have walked. Now, I have much more depth to my love for my H and son. Plus with your child, you want to protect them and give them positive role models in their life. That is probably one reason you are here and happily getting on with your life with new guy. I wish you well and will pray for you three. Starting over is hard. It is also hard for you to believe in any man again, after you have been lied to. Should my H decide this week he wants to work on M, it will be a hard road ahead, but one definitely worth taking. May God bless you on your new path and bless your precious child. I recommend to even my single friends, Love Must Be Tough, by Dobson. It along with MB has saved me when going got rough. That book is even great for singles too. I pray the best new beginning for you and your family. Yes, a family can be just two, but when you get your heart in the right place, you will just be now attractive first from the inside out. Let your new man see that. Smooth sailing to you in 2002...God bless you and pray for all of us here.