<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
[QB<p>I think it's wrong for BS's to assume that all OP what to steal your spouse/family. When the truth is I know PLENTY of OP. (I work with about 5-6) Personally I don't know ANY OW who "want" the guy for their own.[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Honestly I don't really think that is the norm, although I know it exists. When I lived with a musician infidelity abounded (definitely more the norm than the exception). Most of those Those OW would have sold their own Grandma to get one of those guys "for her own". My H's OW got downright frightening in her desperation to get him back after he ended the A. After she mentioned numerous times that she wished I was dead it got pretty alarming. In my experience the overwhelming majority (though not all) OW want the MM all for themselves. OM are a different story. I have known very few OM who actually wanted to make a life with the MW (not that they tell her that).

So....if this forum is for BS, and gloryb is for OP...is there a place for WS? There are thoughts and feelings I have that I'd like to vent about...but if I did it here, I'd just be told to "get out of the fog". I've learned quite a bit here...but I'd like a sympathetic place to go without getting berated or sniped at, too.<p>Anyone know of such a place?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hailey:
<strong> I am the kind who will gather ALL the info I can to make a decision - from All sides - even the ones I don't want to hear - this isn't the only place I've been to gather info either - and I've read pretty much everthing on this board - and the stuff over at the OTW board and spend hours in the local college lib - looking up articles etc - this is just a bit of my process - it has been enlightening</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Do you honestly think that most of us haven't done the same thing? I lost count of how many books and articles I read about affairs and how many different boards I've lurked on. Not to mention that many of us haven't exactly lead sheltered lives and have known plenty of cheaters, OPs and other BS in our lives, even long before it ever happened to us. You keep saying how you are spouting "reality". I hate to break it to you, but the reality you are experiencing is only 1/3 of the whole picture. The BS also has a reality which is just as real, and so does the WS. The true reality lies somewhere in the middle of those 3 alternate realities.

Hailey (my twin) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>check this out. Here is a link to the epic thread that began when I first came here.<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013669

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
<strong>So....if this forum is for BS, and gloryb is for OP...is there a place for WS? There are thoughts and feelings I have that I'd like to vent about...but if I did it here, I'd just be told to "get out of the fog". I've learned quite a bit here...but I'd like a sympathetic place to go without getting berated or sniped at, too.<p>Anyone know of such a place?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My understanding is that this place is for anyone interested in building/saving their marriages. There are plenty of repentant (and some not) WS here. Since this is a place geared towards building marriages I don't understand why single, unrepentant OP post here at all except to cause trouble. As a WS you have to understand that BS have often been through greater pain than they ever knew existed. Some of these wounds are very fresh, some not. So you do have to tread carefully. There was a site (don't know if it still exists) called philanders forum that was set up for betrayers.

Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
I think it's wrong for BS's to assume that all OP what to steal your spouse/family. When the truth is I know PLENTY of OP. (I work with about 5-6) Personally I don't know ANY OW who "want" the guy for their own.<hr></blockquote><p>I know that many OP think they're in a relationship with a single person. And once they find out the guy is married (or woman), they want to break it off and are plenty angry about it. That's when the story about how bad the wife is and the coloring the rose colored glasses (fogging machine) starts in earnest. <p>Any "story" that Hailey or any other OW/OM repeats from that spin, is not likely even half of the story. If what Hailey says about the "wife" in her story is even close to true, then I have every excuse to sing the song her main squeeze has sung to her. I have "a right" to be unfaithful/WRONG. That is, if I were as fogged in as Hailey.<p>NOT EVEN! I don't have a right to break the vows I made to my husband, to my God, and to myself no matter how abused, neglected, etc. My top five needs haven't been met for years. Conditions are finally improving, now that I've been working a pretty good Plan A for two solid years now. But my husband is still unfaithful to me with pornography and lust, although he isn't currently involved in a physical or emotional affair with a person he knows. <p>How long should I be faithful under such conditions? As long as I am in the marriage covenant. To do less would be less than honorable. And to be in a relationship with someone so inclined would contaminate and dishonor that person as well - and Hailey can't see that. All she can see is the smoke screen she bought and paid for with her soul from a married man who is corrupt and unclean and a liar. Anyone who dishonors their marriage vows is a liar. There is no excuse. Not even I have one, even if by Hailey's standards I do.

Well, Katie, I realize that many OP aren't looking for a permanent relationship. My husband and his OW seemed to be completely using each other, and if she was in love with him, I haven't seen any indications of it. I think she just wanted something from him. My point is that to break my heart over someone he loved would be bad enough, but to break my heart over someone he cared nothing for is particularly wounding. He has told me over and over that he never cared for her, he never took her anywhere or did anything except drink beer in the hotel bar and then go upstairs for sex. He told me he found her "stupid" and would be embarrassed to be seen around with her. (I'm mortified that he could be such a jerk, but he was being the same way with me during this time, so I suppose it's not surprizing.)<p>Back to topic---If I was run over by an ambulance trying to rush an ill child to the hospital that would be awful in itself--but it somehow seems worse to be killed by drunk teenagers out joy-riding. Am I clearer, or just blurry?<p>Katie Scarlett, is it possible that some OW/OM say they don't want the WS, perhaps because they set themselves up for possible failure? When I was dating my husband and in love, I secretly hoped that we would become engaged and get married, but I wasn't so dumb to go around annoucing it to everybody. What an idiot I would have looked if it hadn't worked out! I'm not saying here that you wanted your MM, but only that I think some do. When you read these posts and hear about some of the outlandish things some OW do after the affairs end, it hard to avoid the conclusion that they think they lost the prize. Even my husband's OW, who basically showed up for sex and didn't seem to pursue an emotional relationship, did ask my husband to move in with her (which he ignored). I think she called me because she was angry that he didn't fall in with her plan.<p>Katie, your comments didn't hurt me, but a couple of months ago they would have. And really, whether the OW wants the MM permanently doesn't really matter much, does it? The effects of the affair are pretty much the same, I suppose--loss of trust and self-esteem, possible loss of marriage. However, I appreciate very much your tact and concern.<p>Rose Red

KS I have to agree with you that not all OP want to steal the spouse away. That is the saga that I lived through. OW made it quite clear that she didn't want to leave her husband/son and my H told me point blank that while she was meeting some of his needs that it would not work between them if they were together all the time. So they just wanted to date one another...yea...it was convenient. They worked together so could spend time together. And they both had built in babysitters so they thought they could just run all over the country together...and did, on company time. They had grand plans of doing things together but they never panned out because I think in the end my H concience got to him, also because he talks a good line, but has been known not to follow through on MANY occasions. <p>I think that they were using each other , saw the flaws and did not like it well enough to go it together, just wanted to have a good time. I know that she received a sob story about how I didn't care/love him anymore by her stating that things were going along just fine until I started dragging my heels about their relationship...like I was going to say yes dear go out and play and do with her all the things that I have been begging you to do for years. <p>Don't take this as bitterness, it is not. What it is is the truth. He misrepresented himself and me.
What he had was a wife that was dealing with serious depression and could not relate to him in a 'normal' manner. Instead of trying to figure out what was wrong or even asking me, he tried to solve the problem with another woman.<p>The only problem with his strategy is that I became a much stronger person once I recovered from the shock. More so than he is and it has given me much insight into his behaviour both past and present. It has made me more understanding, compassionate, patient, loving and a whole lot more observant.<p>Does this mean that we are on easy street. I can't tell you. But I do know that whatever happens from this point on has nothing to do with his A, it has to do with he and I and what we do or don't do to reconnect with one another and rebuild our relationship.<p>Anything I have written has not been out of bitterness or the need to strike out at anyone. It has been built on the experiences I had while dealing with a very emotionally exhausting experience and what I learned about the whole thing during and after it was occuring.

IMO, If you are an OW- you are a whore.

Honey - no matter what, there is just no place for name calling. That is not what this forum is about, and I admire the ability of these women, who are and have been OW, to be open with us and to try and understand all facets of what it means to be involved in an affair. I do understand, that your response comes from the deep hurt you are experiencing right now. I'm sorry for your pain, I really am. I know, I've been there and back and there and back.<p>I think in a lot of ways, after being on this forum for 1.5 years myself, we tend to be most judgemental on this board. Yes, this is a place for people to come to try and rebuild their marriages, but sometimes being exposed to the "ugly truth" or "opposing views" or "non-MB principles" can help open our minds and hearts to finally healing....<p>Just my $.02<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Alberta ]</p>

Sorry I am not really trying to name call to you- but get yourself out of the situation... I do feel a little bad, but do think being an ow is kind of as bad as it gets.. but I have alot of anger since it is being done to me. I tried to post some nice things to hailey to encourage her... but her saying she is not a who... r..- just kind of mad me think... so sad but that is how she is acting.. may be a good person,... but good people do not fool around with other peoples husbands... at least not good behavior... very wrong bad and sinful behavior... can be fixed, and does not mean she is a who=== as a person, but behavior is really of that nature... I just kind of have to say it like it is today. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

I understand. Hang in there. I guess if you can't tell it like it is, and speak your mind here where else can you do it?<p>(((((((((Honey)))))))))))))