Okay...I know that most of you here don NOT want to hear from the likes of me...but please try and put that aside for a moment. I am the exOW.<p>4 weeks ago my ex H (crazy man and an abuser) sent a letter to the wife of a man I was having a 2 year affair with. The man and I immediately ended our relationship and are now trying to end contact. He is committed to fixing his marriage, which I respect. I know we need to end contact for that to work for him but he is not seeing that. I have done a lot of reading about infidelity, here, books, and many other places, trying to understand how this happened.<p>He denied the contents of the letter and blamed it on my ex's jealousy. She says she believes him. <p>He has subsequently found out she called his cell phone company and requested a copy of his phone records. The company called him and told him that they needed his permission to send them. She is also going to the gym everyday, (very out of character). She makes sarcastic comments to him all the time about be able to trust him. She has gone through his things, looking for who knows what. But so far no real confrontation.<p>My question is...if she says she believes him, why do the investigations. She never actually asked him if he was having an affair, she said I wont ask if it is true, because I know you wouldn't do that. Is this normal behavior? <p>I have been trying to talk him into a confession, from what I have read, it is the only way to rebuild his marriage. So far nothing I have said has worked. This is why I came here. He believes that because she has not confronted him, he is in the clear.<p>Now I know you are all going to say to stay out of it and stop all contact...but the thing of it is, I am the only person he listens to when it comes to this. I love him and want him to be happy. Is there anything I can send him or tell him that will have an impact on his actions?<p>And how do I convince him that no contact is essential...for all involved?

Twilight;<p>IF you mean what you say here, the very best thing you can do to give this man a chance to rebuild his marriage, is to break ALL contact. Tell him you do not want to see him, hear from him, ever again. And stick to that! "Disappear" from his life. Tell him it was a mistake, it won't work, and help him be honest and truthful to his W; to reconstruct his M.<p>If they don't know about Marriage Builders, suggest to him that he come here for help.<p>We do not make judgements here at MB (or most of us don't) and we believe that you, as the OW, have the right to re-build your life as well. We understand your feelings, your pain, and your motivation, and we hope you can find a way to either fix your marriage, or be complete as a person if you must end the marriage.<p>You are to be commended for coming here, for learning about the destruction these relationships cause, and for the bravery you have shown in exposing yourself to criticism or chastisement. If more people showed that courage, the world would be a better place.<p>My very best wishes to you, twilight, I hope you will find happiness and a fulfilling life.<p>[ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</p>

I'm curious Twilight; you've been a member for a long time; why is that? tell us your story.<p>Thanks!
Space

I can see why she is searching things out - he is still lying to her so she is seeking independent verification. She must be going through pure hell trying to find the truth. And I seriously doubt that she ever said "I know you wouldn't do that." That is probably his highly spinned version. Her actions tell us otherwise. <p>Anyway, I agree with Spacecase, if you really care about him then it would be best to stay away and let them recover their marriage. As long as there is any contact there will be no recovery.

His wife might want to believe him, but her behavior and actions show she certainly has doubts, rightfully so, her gut instinct has probably been sounding alarm for a long time. <p>People change once they start an affair, the WS can deny everything, as mine did for 8 months, (he then confessed, then denied for another 10-14 months). He was the one to say he'd "never do that to me". And he was. But the denial didn't mean his behavior felt "right" or even "ok".<p>What can you do? You can tell him that because he is married, committed to his marriage that any relationship with you, the person he cheated with, is inappropriate and your dignity and honor are leading you to the conclusion that you do not want to speak to, or see him as long as he is married. You're sorry, but, you can't be his friend, because friends don't screw up their friend's marriages.<p>Because, Twilight, you really can't heal his marriage. He has to be the one to follow through with his desire to committ to his marriage, and it is not likely to happen with you in his life.<p>You really don't have to convince him...all you have to do is not see him, not take his calls, not reply to his emails. That is what you can control.<p>The 7th time my H left me during his A, I served D papers and began to date, but didn't progress on the divorce, because at that point, my H wanted me back, and I wasn't sure. The "honor" speech is the one the OM gave me. And...I respect him for that. So, I know it can be done. And my marriage is doing very well 2 years later.<p>Anyway

First let me say I agree about the no contact. Not just for them either, but for me. Everytime I speak to him it gets harder to move on. And I am sure it is the same for him. That being said, the no contact is difficult for us because of a certain situation I am having. He feels an obligation to help me with my own marital/divorce problems. And I feel an obligation to keep him informed of the situation because of the help he has given me. (it is much more complex than that).<p>What he didn't lie about was how crazy my soon to be ex husband is. He has helped me get away from him both physically and emotionally. I am in court, trying to end my abusive marriage.<p>Space, you asked why I have been a member for so long. To give you the short answer...I was trying to understand what was happening to me and to him. I mostly read, as I feel I have no place here. I have posted maybe 2 other times. The first time I was trying to end this relationship...unsuccessfully. I have found that by coming here and seeing the pain of the BS's, it strengthens my resolve to walk away.<p>My motivation for coming today was to find something that will convince him to tell the truth. From what I have read, both here and in books, is the absolute hell it is when the WS lies about the affair. I know in my heart the only way for him to repair the damage he has done is by telling the truth. I thought if I could send him something that explains that, he would have a change of heart. At least then I would know that they are dealing with their issues and moving on...so that I can too.<p>I believe that he had an affair because of his non-confrontational nature...not telling her that he was feeling left out of her life, neglected in favour of their children. He needs to talk to her, he needs to tell her the truth, or he will be right back where it all started. And I am afraid that might mean with me. <p>My willpower is very weak when it comes to him. I have tried in the past to get away. I just want him to be okay. Maybe then I can be too.

Twilight,<p>Again, IF you mean what you say here, you MUST stop contact. If you allow him to be your helper through your divorce, you will continue to hurt his M. Contact must end.<p>And if you believe that the truth is something he's not willing to tell his W, maybe you should break contact with him, and let his W know about the A yourself.<p>But if you talk to him again after that, you're just hurting everyone; including yourself.

I will not tell his wife, not now, not ever. And if she contacts me, I will refer her back to her husband. I honestly think it is better left between the two of them. Besides, my exH did tell her and she didn't believe him...what makes you think she would believe me?<p>p.s. in reference to something else I read here about contacting the OP...don't bother...their loyalty lies with the WS and most will lie to protect them. I wouldn't lie, but I wouldn't offer up any info either.

twilight,
I wanted to ask you, why you seem to feel it is your job, to fix his marriage? Why not walk away and let it be.. I dont think his wife would consider you helping her situation.
An frankly when caught husbands rarely if ever tell the complete truth. But that is not your problem. Yours is to work on you and leave him to fix his own mess.

very good question. Complicated answer. <p>2 reason I guess...part of it is my own guilt..I got him here in the first place and I feel compelled to help him. He doesn't always see what is right in front of him, and for the last 2 years I have been the one he turns to for the "other" point of view. We have been friends more than anything else, we were in a distance relationship and only saw each other a few days per month.<p>The other part of this is me...I am what is called a caretaker personality...this is the complicated part. It is in my nature, every fiber of my being to want to help the people close to me. I guess you could say it's bigger than me.<p>I know I should not be doing this but I also know I am the only one he will talk to about it. I want to steer him in the right direction.<p>I came here looking for articles or advice I could send to him about the counter effects of lying about discovery. That is my only intention, after that, I don't want to know what happens between them. It's none of my business.

Dear Miss Light,<p>You are spending way too much time thinking how to "fix" this MM's marital problems (which are NONE of your business). In the meantime, you are avoiding your problems that need attention! You mention you were in an abusive marriage previously. Both of these men from your past have serious emotional issues. Neither of these men have healthy relationship skills. <p>Here is where the relationships from your past intersect and create your crucible from which you have the opportunity to grow and become a more fulfilled woman. Why are you attracted to men in unhealthy relationship?<p>You try to "help" broken men. Why is that?<p>Why does this type of dysfunctional relationship feel good to you? <p>This is where you will get healthy ... NOT fixing a marriage that you helped betray. Work on yourself. You are worth more than you are giving yourself credit for.<p>Peace and prayers.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

what you dont understand.. If you really care that his marriage works and you dont want to hurt it.. Then you have no choice but to walk away, if you dont.. You have ended nothing. You didnt get him there unless you held a gun to his head.. he is a big boy and knew what he was doing and all the risk involved. So NO it is not your problem. If what you say is true.. YOU will walk away.
So as far as I can tell you are still having an affair. I spent every single day with a person for several years doing every thing for each other, I know what it is like to become dependent on someone. And whether you know it or not .. you are dependent on thinking he needs you and he doesnt.
Ask all these betrayed spouses on this board if they felt they needed the OW to help there marriage work. You might be suprised at what they say.
I am not trying to hurt your feelings.. I cant throw stones. Just want you to think about your self now.

Pepper,<p>Believe it or not I am working on me. I am in councilling for the abuse both past and present...yes even when you get away physically they can still find a way to come after you. <p>My ex stalks me regularly and I have to deal with that. I am in court fighting for full custody of my daughter and trying to help her to cope with a psycho father.<p>I lost my job last year and have only now begun to work again. <p>What I am saying is there is a lot of s*** going on with me that I am working on. And the one person who has been there for me is WS. I guess I din't feel like abandonning him after everything he has done for me. What he doesn't understand is the only way I can be there for him is to be away from him. That is my purpose in coming here. And I'll say it again...to find info for him to enable him to do the right thing...for ALL of us. My plan is to give it to him and walk away, without him feeling abandonned by me.<p>I am VERY well aware of my own problems.

Mom of Five<p>You make a very good point, one I think is more than likely true.<p>What I am struggling with is he tells me he needs me, needs the contact to get him through this. You have to understand, I love this man. It is very difficult to turn away from him when he says he needs me. I know it is the right thing to do but if I was able to listen to my head instead of heart, this either never would have happened or it would aready be over.<p>I agree that as long a we remain in contact the affair is still going on. I have been unable to convince him of that. He thinks if he never sees me again then it is over, but you know and I know, that it doesn't work that way.<p>There should be a 12 step program for addiction to a person.

Dear Miss Light,<p>"And the one person who has been there for me is WS." ..... <p>Not true. You have someone far more important than another woman's husband in your life... you have your child! A beautiful girl. The love of your life.<p>Many women , such as yourself, who repeatedly choose flawed men ...men who are incapable of a true committment ...are trying to heal old wounds from childhood.<p>It doesn't work. You only make new wounds. <p>You are better than this .... do you believe me?<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Believe it or not.. I do understand every single word you are saying, but if you want things to change you cant be his buddy any more. The hardest thing for me to get over in my A , was I lost my best friend. But you know who should have been my best friend... My husband.
When you are going through a seperation with your husband and someone else comes in and gives you all that love and support and makes it seem, not quite as bad.. Like maybe you can get through this after all.. But it is a false sense of hope.. It means nothing. My gosh the work and love we put into other friendships and relationships over the years if we thought about that before we speak to our spouses, I bet most of these affairs would not happen.
Why didnt my husband buy gifts for me, the way he did other women, why didnt my husband call me from work to say I love you instead of saying I gotta go.. and calling another woman. Why didnt I do all I did for OP and not my husband,. I used to why did I stop trying.
I stopped trying because all my energies were put into someone elses life. So that someone else could have just what they wanted. a wife at home and smeone to play with on the side. NOW HE WOULD BE OFFENED by that description.. But it is what happened.
We sometimes think someone cant make it with you.. but in reality, they will be sad and have a few sometimes many hard days, But it will pass. And they will be able to move on. Perhaps no one will forget.. but we will all move on.
You are not the key to his marriage he is. Make a life for yourself and your children if you have any. Work on being the best you can be and every thing else will follow through.. when you have the urge to call him.. go for a walk., go shopping, call a gf.
He is using you, He can do this with out you.. this is a way to keep you on the hook.

I believe that we all chose to be with a person based on childhood issues. We are attracted to people based on how they can heal us. There is a lot of research in this area.<p>For me, it took this relationship to make me see a lifelong pattern I have with men.<p>I have 2 types: the lost puppy who I need to save but I don't love, and the unavailable man, who I love but can't have.<p>What does this say about me? Easy I am afraid of committment and terrified of regection. You can't be regected by someone you don't love and if an unavailable man regets you, it isn't personal, it's the situation.<p>So you see, I have been working on me and my patterns. And I doubt I will fall back into them again. The one thing WS did do for me, was help me to realize that it is okay to open up, to really show myself to another person. My hope is to be able to carry that into a future relationship with a fully avaiable man (both un-married and emotionally available).<p>Through all the personal pain of this relationship, there was good from it too. In the personal growth area.

"Without him feeling abandoned by me"<p>THIS is such an important issue! You cannot live your life "in charge" of what other people feel! This type of disfunctional thinking is how women become controlled by men! .... and YOU have been controlled by men since you were little I'm guessing.<p>"If I do this the way he wants, and stop doing stuff that he doesn't like, he won't get mad, he won't hit me,and he'll be happy. So I'll tiptoe on eggshells, not hurt his feelings, and things will be OK." .....WRONG!<p>You are being controlled by a man if you twist yourself like a pretzel to make him feel a certain way ... you lose yourself when you do what he needs to feel good ... even if it goes against what your principles are, or what you know is morally correct.<p>You are worth more than that.... Do you believe me?<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Pepper,<p>yes I have...very little. Sexual abuse as a child and a series of controlling relationships. I never thought about it until my exH started to physically abuse me. You know...the whole thing if he isn't hitting you, it isn't abuse thinking.<p>You touched a nerve with me. Thank you. I think you are the first person, (and I have spoken to many about this), to really point out the root of the problem.<p>You have me spinning. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear Miss Light,<p>I've got to go right now. I just want to give you a ((( hug ))) ...and then... swat you on your tush ...(just a light one) [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ... and tell you this:<p>YOU *ARE* WORTH MUCH MORE DON'T SELL YOURSELF SHORT [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Keep your eye on the prize ... and the prize is YOU! A "you" that you love, a "you" that you are proud of, and a "you" who is healthy in all ways ...physically ...emotionally... spiritually!<p>Go for it.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]