Hi J,
I wonder these days how much I ought to say. I still feel the same as I have since June. I can't explain that. My cousin in the UK says some Brit's think many of us in the US are odd, so this should just confirm that to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You haven't said much about the house for a while. I wonder what you are doing with the mortgage, and I wonder about the sale of Levan. I hope the Levan sale goes through as planned and doesn't cause you any more trouble.

I have a hard time understanding T, and it gets worse as you go along. He shows so many signs of valuing your relationship in some ways that his other behavior makes no sense to me at all.

This is a busy time for us at work, so sorry if I don't post much for a few weeks. I wish I could say that we were making money hand over fist, but the truth is we sell as much as we can just to pay the bills, like every one else this year. I kind of feel guilty when I don't check in with people that I feel I have become friends with, even though I am sure it doesn't really bother anyone. We are busy at home too, all the children want to spend time with Dad right now, and I like it too, but it makes for a busy life. We went out Saturday and cut a Christmas tree to bring home. They have suppressed fires in the western US for so many years that in some places trees are taking over the grass lands and they issue permits to cut them to get rid of them. They are like weeds, growing where there would not naturally be trees if man had not come and begun to manage the land.

I am sorry you were ill, everyone at our house was also the same week. I felt somewhat down, and could only manage to work an eight hour day last Monday before I had to go home. My W was out for 2 days, and I had to fill in around the house for her. I feel especially bad for you and others here with no help in the home when you are ill.

I see your comment about not feeling spiritually minded. I don't know exactly how you are feeling, but I have learned in my life that the statement " it is always darkest just before the dawn" is true. If you feel you are at the end, if you feel you have gotten no answers, then I encourage you to hold on to God for just a little longer until you get your answer. I don't pretend to have all the answers myself, but I know that he will always come through if we will have faith in him. I have been praying for you more than normal that you will be able to do as he wants for you to do. In my life I have found that happiness comes in no other way.

Having spoken with H on Saturday, do you still feel you want it over quickly? Are you encouraging him to finish things? Or are you still leaving it in his hands?

I encourage you to do a good plan B after Christmas. It is the one thing you have not tried. If a D is to take place anyway, it will not harm things a bit that I can see.

I do wonder what OW thinks of his getting you a gift, it seems odd, doesn't it.

It seems that you are at a crossroads, I had better continue praying for you.

SS

Hi SS only time for a quick reply as have to get son off to bed in a minute- but:
You haven't said much about the house for a while. I wonder what you are doing with the mortgage, and I wonder about the sale of Levan. I hope the Levan sale goes through as planned and doesn't cause you any more trouble.
still no news.
I see your comment about not feeling spiritually minded. I don't know exactly how you are feeling, but I have learned in my life that the statement " it is always darkest just before the dawn" is true. If you feel you are at the end, if you feel you have gotten no answers, then I encourage you to hold on to God for just a little longer until you get your answer. I don't pretend to have all the answers myself, but I know that he will always come through if we will have faith in him. I have been praying for you more than normal that you will be able to do as he wants for you to do. In my life I have found that happiness comes in no other way.
I will make no decisions or moves with out the peace of God in my heart.
Having spoken with H on Saturday, do you still feel you want it over quickly? Are you encouraging him to finish things? Or are you still leaving it in his hands?
Yes to wanting it over quickly- but no to encouraging him to finish it quickly and yes to leaving it in his hands- at the moment.
I encourage you to do a good plan B after Christmas. It is the one thing you have not tried. If a D is to take place anyway, it will not harm things a bit that I can see.
Yes I agree - I need to put it into place properly this time- not contact with me at all, a mutual drop oiff puck up point so I don't have to see him, fully explained letter and not contact at all- and I need a way of explaining ll this to the boys!
Janet

I hope I don't communicate that I don't trust you to do the right thing. I mean, who am I to say what that is anyway, but I worry for all of us because I know how hard it is for myself. I hope these words are encouraging, for that is what is intended.

As for the boys, just tell them that you hurt too bad to see him any longer, that it has broken your heart to see what has happened and you can't take it any more.

I fear if you tell them about plan B then H will hear of it of ask about it and some of it may leak to him. I feel it would be best for many reasons that he not know details.

I hope you don't mind if I give my opinion about something. I have thought about this quite a bit, and it is firm in my mind, so I will go ahead and say it.

I just wanted to say that I continue to respect the abilities and bearing of someone that posts often on this thread. I can't tell them directly, for they would just say they can't take credit, so I am just stating it in general terms. I should probably not type out her name, but I believe she knows who I mean. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sorry about no word on the sale. I hope interrest rates are low an you can reduce your payment so that you won't have to work full time. I suspect the boys would enjoy having more of your time. There are also many fun things to do, I hope you get to do more of them.

SS

Thanks SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
I accept the 'bouquet'!
Jante

Hi folks-
SS
Sorry about no word on the sale. I hope interrest rates are low an you can reduce your payment so that you won't have to work full time. I suspect the boys would enjoy having more of your time. There are also many fun things to do, I hope you get to do more of them.
well I had an email today from H to say that the buyers own sale will complete on Friday and funds will then be telegraphed to out solicitor so they will arrive on Monday 16th. I shall be glad when this is all over. I have th option with the low interest rates of taking out an interest only mortgage for less than half the value of my house which will mean the payments are such that I can work part time, but at the end of the period I will have to pay back the intial amount- however I will have plenty in the house equity to do so. Altenative is to take out a repaymenytt mortgage which will double my monthly payments and will mean I will have to continue to work fulltime ( unless God blesses me with a highly paid part time job) . At the end of course I should have paid of everything and have a larger sum in my house. If interest rates were higher on savings I could have invested the money and gone on paying present mrtgage . One other factor in equation is that until thia month H has paid me a small amount of child support because he had such high mortgage repayments. Now Levan is sold he had initially agredd he would up my payments but as yet he hasn't said what he will pay me. His own new job is not as highly paid as before but is still double what I could hope to earn even fulltime.
Its still a waiting game.
Jante

Hi SS another few details of H's behaviour for you to ponder. It was YS's christmas play at school this evening and he had a small speaking part. A few weeks back YS asked if dad could come, I rand him and he agreed. It fitted in nicely as tomorrow is s's birthday. So H drove up this afternoon- it took 6 hours due to heavy London traffic! He saw the polay had a quick bite to eat, saw son open his presents ( We allowed it early so dad could be there) and then drove back down to london! I wonder if he thought the cost of returning to OW worth it!!! He also brought a present from OW for s. He and I had bought sons big present together.

Well all is quiet in my household this evening and I continue to get ready for christmas.
Jante

Jante,

I have only read your posts tonite..I see your wondering why your W-h lied to you about finances..

I would imagine OW is encouraging that..as she knows the sale of the house will be a large sum of $'s and expects your H to spend it on her..

I have to agree with the other posters it sounds like it's way past time for a Plan B letter..

You asked in the post if losing everything he has materially will make him think twice..apparently
NOT!!

Are you planning on having your Wh stay for Christmas dinner? I imagine OW will have a big problem with him doing so..

And as far as Christmas goes, you can encourage him to have his own Christmas while they are on their w/e visit..and you plan your own..and begin making your own memories..

You can let the kids know, as long as their dad says it's okay for them to go see him, and he can make arrangments to get them, they can go if YOU don't already have other plans..they can call and talk to him (collect, as I am sure it's long distance) you won't prevent that..but you need to protect yourself from hurting..

When he calls again to 'chat' about his problems
just simply explain that it is no longer your concern, as to what his problems and illnesses are, as he left you..and moved in with someone else..and he should be discussing these things with her now, and leave you out of it..and allow you to move forward with your life..

the more you do this...the easier it will be on you..and it will make him depend on OW to meet all those needs your meeting for him now..by being there for him..and he will most likely find
she won't want to meet them..

Right now, it seems your meeting some major needs by being available to him when she isn't around..
so make yourself less available..if he calls and wants to chat, ask him where she's at..and suggest he call her..and chat with her..

<small>[ December 11, 2002, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

Hi and welcome Throned Rose- its always good to get another perspective on things.

Re the sale of the castle and the finance- H and I have a signed agreement lodged with his solicitor in which I get 60% of equity and he gets 40% so I don't think that was the reason for his lies. From what he said on saturday it appears he didn't want to upset me by letting me know he was staying at OW's mothers with her.

Yes H is coming to spend christmas day with me and the children- as he did last year. Perhaps that is giving him his cake and letting him eat it as he will probably go from me to OW- either at there own home or more likely at her parents home. However my boys are anticipating it and I don't want to disappoint them.

No I am aware H isn't apparently bothered that he nealy lost everything. He now has a new job and a new car and a new OW so I m replacable along with car and job.

He has lived with OW since last New Year and I think she does meet all his needs most of the time- but we have shared out thoughts and dremas for so long that we both still find ourselves doing so when together. I have been pulling back from spending time with H over last few months but because of distance and the bpoys wishing to spend time at home rather than in OWs home I still do see him for an hour or so on a saturday.

I know plan B would appear to be the next step- I just find it hard to be that determined.

Jante

Hi folks problems witrh server. LIR, Espoir, and SS would appreciate your comments feedback on previous 2 posts.
Jante

<small>[ December 12, 2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

problems meant I posted same message three times!!

<small>[ December 12, 2002, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hi J, lets see where we are -
It's a busy week here, school Christmas concert for Laura Tuesday night, and caroling party with church youth last night, busy with deadlines at work, so not on MB much this week. I can see you have been busy. I hope C had a happy B-day. I have wondered if it bothers him that his dad is only there for a short time, then leaves. I hope at that age he doesn't think on those things but I don't know.

Hi SS another few details of H's behaviour for you to ponder.
I wish I was better help.

I wonder if he thought the cost of returning to OW worth it!!!
After all this time, he strikes me as someone that makes up his mind and then goes ahead no matter what the results. Doesn't want to admit he may be wrong, so finds ways to make it appear to work even if it is really is not working. You know him better than any of us, are there other things going on in his mind?

He also brought a present from OW for s.
You don't say what your thoughts were about this, but I can well imagine. I hate to see this start. I wonder if OW is wanting to do something to claim ownership of him?

He and I had bought sons big present together. Perhaps OW knows this, and is seeking a way in. If she is to stay in his life, it must come from her some day.

Well all is quiet in my household this evening and I continue to get ready for Christmas. Yes, and you don't say anything about your hurt, and I believe you are calm and quiet but that doesn't tell the half of it, does it. There is another post I need to do for you, and a few others but it may take me some time to get to it, I am also working on one for LIR that I hope will help some. I wish you both knew your true worth. Things like this ( H's latest antics) make it hard for you to understand your great worth. Sometimes I wonder If I do you any good at all, I don't know how to communicate some things very well.

I know you worry about plan B, but Thorned Rose, Espoir, and others seem to be encouraging you to try it, I concur. I believe your plan A was good enough, and I believe it is time. Somehow I am thinking you could be content to be nice to him and continue to meet some of his needs right up to D. You have been thinking about B, and I believe discussing it with someone to have made the comments you did a few days ago about it.

RE: Lies
From what he said on Saturday it appears he didn't want to upset me by letting me know he was staying at OW's mothers with her.
I suspect he didn't think it a lie so much as he thought "well, she doesn't want to hear about OW, so I had better not tell her where I am, she may be angry about it also."
He really seems thick about this stuff. It's like he can't tell what is wanted or needed and he doesn't seem to grasp the right thing to say. Has he always been this way? Or just since he got lost in the fog? Please forgive me for sounding harsh, I don't mean ill of him. What I mean is that he should be able to tell the difference between going on and on about OW in conversation and letting people know where he is so he can be reached when needed. He doesn't seem to get it.

Yes H is coming to spend Christmas day with me and the children- as he did last year. Perhaps that is giving him his cake and letting him eat it as he will probably go from me to OW- either at there own home or more likely at her parents home.
I wonder what her parents thoughts are. I think I like your IL's attitude much better.
I think you need to take the cake away, I really do.

However my boys are anticipating it and I don't want to disappoint them.
You are too kind, I don't think I could do it. I hope I never find out.

No I am aware H isn't apparently bothered that he nearly lost everything.
I still have the same funny feeling, but it doesn't make any more sense now than it has for a few months.

He now has a new job and a new car and a new OW so I m replaceable along with car
and job.
I believe he is about to find out that you are not replaceable. I hope he finds it out.

.............. we have shared out thoughts and dreams for so long that we both still find ourselves doing so when together.
It kind of comes natural for a H and W to do that, doesn't it. Like I said, I can't figure him out. Please take the cake away.

I have been pulling back from spending time with H over last few months but because of distance and the boys wishing to spend time at home rather than in OWs home I still do see him for an hour or so on a Saturday. I know plan B would appear to be the next step- I just find it hard to be that determined.
Please be that determined, It will naturally follow D anyway, please do it before that.
I realize it is easier said than done. I know you have concern for the boys, you want to make it easier for them, and you don't want him to get discouraged and come around less because it is more difficult for him, but as has been pointed out, if a D takes place, all this will happen anyway. Let him see what he has wrought.

You don't say what your feelings are about all this, but I imagine there is still some pain. I wish it were otherwise. When I pray for you I get the feeling " I will take care of her." so I believe he will.

We continue to get ready for Christmas also, I almost think I like the getting ready as much as the event itself. I do sometimes wish there were not so many outside events imposed on us, but that's life. I really ought to post to some others tonight but I am soooo tired. I could not post from home for a few days ( don't very often anyway) because computer was down, I believe it will be more reliable now, but will see.

SS

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS not a lot happening. H came for the day and I went out. the castle sale completed yesterday and the funds are now with the solicitor so should hear sometime next week about when I will receive my share.
H slipped in at least 3 comments about oW and he home but I was able to ignore, not respond and not rise up at it. I am feeling very much at peace at the moment. OI am quite looking forward to Christmas though not quite sure how the day will go. Or how I will feel when he chooses to leave.

I notice a strong oush from you and others towards the plan B and taking his cake away. I really do see the need but find it hard to see how to implement this inm a practical way. This is not an excuse for not doing it, just a desire to see how it can be done when he lives so far away and so sees the children in 'their' home to enable them to continue to live their lives normally. H is having the children in london for long w/e between christmas and new Year and I have thought of insisting that after that he has the children alternate weekends from friday to Sunday- giving the 4 of them more time together and getting them away from MY home. Will continue to pray for wisdom and value yopur payers.

Jante

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hello jante,

I really think ss and ThornedRose are right about this - taking the cake away. I understand your desire to provide a place for the children to see their father without the OW presence and that letting their father see them in your home is the only way you can think of to do this, because this is what I went through as a teenager myself.

But I would encourage you to do as you suggested - insist that H take the children for alternate long weekends. You see, even though you are giving your children space for him to see them, you are also enabling his affair to continue by relieving H and the OW of the stress of having to have the children in their home on a regular basis. Your H's OW never has to confront the reality of having to deal face to face with her lovers three resentful sons - she gets to buy them nice presents that are given to them on YOUR family time, isn't that great?

Let her have to deal with what she has opted for - another woman's husband and his three sons. I can tell you that when my dad had to take us home with him every weekend, SHE didn't like it - she didn't like having to share him with us. And it was also a helluva lot of work for her. Shock horror - I have to cook for three teenagers and they don't even say thankyou because they hate me.

By letting H see them at your home - he is having his cake and eating it too in all ways - he has to do NO work at all, he gets to be the great dad who comes and has fun for them for the whole day, and he also gets to see YOU.

Please take the WHOLE cake away from him after Christmas is over and let him live the consequences of his choices in life.

You deserve better than this.

LIR

Thanks for you insights LIR they are helpful. I want to suggets it to H but would really like him to come up with the idea himself instead of it always being me who makes the decisions and 'pushes' him to spend more time with His children.

Am steeling myself to be firm over all this once Christmas is over.
Jante

So, are you all ready for Christmas?

I admit I am finally. I am ready for Christmas last year. I expect to be ready for this years Christmas by sometime in April 2003. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Glad the sale is finished and you will get the funds. I suspect it is nice that you don't have to worry about bankrupcy for a at least a few weeks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Smile and have fun being a mother for the next few weeks. Enjoy the boys while you have them there with you. They are still enjoyable when they grow up and move away, but it is not the same as having them close where you can hug them daily.

My W asked me what you had decided to do for your holiday. I said I didn't know but hope you will have a good time whatever you do. Perhaps with the delay of the sale, you have put it off. Although I tell her regularly about my friends on MB, you are the one she asks about if I fail to update her.

Hope your evening goes well today.

SS

Thanks SS yes- nearly ready for christmas and have just been out with the boyus to the mall for last few presents.

Re the holiday- because I cnouldn't be certain of funds I have put off planning a holiday abroad. Instead this next few weeks I have 2 weeks off work- H will spend Christmas day with us, Boxing day I take the children to my sisters where my mum will also be, then on the Friday T is calling to collect the children and take them to his place until the Tuesday. I threfore have 4 days of 'freedom' which I shall rest relax and enjoy. On the Tuesday I collect my mum from my sisters the boys come back from their dad s and then we spend New years eve and day together. I will take my mum home on the Saturday when T will come up to spend the day with the boys. A very good friend from my school days emmigrated to the states 3 years ago but is back visiting her mum this holiday season so I will visit with her while at my mums.
It is my intention to sit down with T after this and have the necessary talk about finance and his time with the children.

I really do hope that you have a wiondeful christmas seasoon with your family.

Jante

Dear J, Here are your thoughts for today.

1) God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.

2) Growing old is inevitable, growing UP is optional.

3) There is no key to happiness. The door is always open.

4) Silence is often misinterpreted, but never misquoted.

5) Faith is the ability to not panic.

6) Laugh every day, it's like inner jogging.

7) As a child of God, prayer is kind of like calling home everyday.

8) Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape.

9) THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN YOUR HOME ARE THE PEOPLE.

10) A grudge is a heavy thing to carry.

11) It's all right to sit on your pity pot every now and again. Just be
sure to flush when you are done!!!!

Hope you laugh a lot today.
SS

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thanks for the laughs SS
Jante

Hi folks- not many laughs today- ongoing saga of sale of scottish property. Sold money with solicitor who is waiting for final settlement figures on a loan associated with property and the council tax. Until she gets them she can't release funds because of the statement i signed at beginning of this sorry tale. Am waiting to speak to H to find out when and if he is going to sort this lot out. He needs the money much more than I do- I just want the whole mess finished. It is now so close to Christmas that if he doesn't hurry up it will be 2003 before we see an end to it.

Sorry am venting a bit at the moment!
Jante

Hi just a few more details!!
I have since spoken to H - not good MBing I'm afraid as I got shirty with him. I rang him and he came on saying "as you know the cheques are sent out tomorrow"!!!!!!!!!??? I said oh its all sorted is it and proceeded to check the details of dispersments that the solicitor is dealing with. H went through the figures which are pretty much in line with earlier discussions. Came to the amount for a loan for original house purchase which was a bone of contention between us from the start. H has continued to pay this amount and said he now wanted the solicitor to pay him the amount left and he would continue to pay the loan monthly. I said that as that wasn't what had been agreed in the early days he should stick with paying it off now. He said ok if thats what you want but whats your problem its my liability. It is I know but I felt it was wrong not to pay that amount now. It was originally borrowed for the deposit on the property so now the property is sold I want the loan cleared! Am I just being obstructive to punish him? I did say to him that if thats what he had wanted he should have disscussed it with me ealier and not leave it until now and that if he didn't communicate with me that he had to take the consequences.
We then argued over the fact he hadn't contacted me about the payout. He insisted he told me on Saturday that the cheques would be sent tomorrow. I pointed out that as our solicitor hadn't spoken to him until Monday and then even at 4pm today still didn't have the figures he couldn't have known on Saturday when he money would be sent . I then quoted his own words back to him of what he actually said on saturday - which was " I'll let you know about the money and whats happening!"

Help people- am I being petty and mean minded for the sake of it. I hate being like this and my natural tendency has been to go along with what ever H has said. This is a 180 for me to be adament about the money. I wish I had been firmer like this during our M.

Left H with the fact I would go away and check the figures.

Perhaps I'm getting steamed up about this because money was always a major problem in our marriage and now I have financial security I don't want to lose it.
Perhaps is has more to do with this being a last link woth our old life and what has still tied us together.
Perhaps I just feel down because he still fails to communicate with me from choice.

He was upset with me because he said i implied he was going to do some 'funny' business over the money and that I didn't trust him!! I never said or intended to imply that - but why does he expect me to trust him!!

Oh well enough oif my moans- if anyone ahas any advice - or thinks I'm wrong not to let him keep the loan on instead of paying it off please let me know- I could do with some advice.
Jante