Oh My!!

We have Kily fired up now. H_P, I think Kily's plan of attack could be very very interesting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Perhaps a bit kinky, but very interesting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I can sort of see the black leather and whip myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And his face??? Oh Yeah!

This could get out of hand, but could be fun. Plan away ladies. This should be really really good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Hopeful-

Hang in there hon. You are doing everything right! I am so proud of you. You certainly have what it takes to make your ex-husband happy. I almost can guarantee he will see that soon. Yes I know he is hurting and I know he is certainly hesitant. Probably because he feels like he may not be able to make you happy. But if/when you restore your lives together, the best thing you can do is acknowledge his attempts at meeting your needs, acknowlegde them with smiles, with hugs, with kisses, and most importantly by meeting his. Hope, you are doing great. Your husband knows it too. There is alot he is dealing with and he hasn't gone and healed completely. Have you ever told him that "You made the biggest mistake of your life." "That he was the most important person in your life"--If you have not do. Most importantly have you told him point blank that "you want him" and promised fedelity in the future? You probably have all of these things, but I guarantee thats what he wants to hear, then see! You are doin wonderfully. I'll bet you that by December 31, 2003 you will have renewed your vows! Keep up the good work! Don't let the little set backs get you down. Take it from me, once you are in a BS's shoes...There is a thick fog that envelops us too!

Be Good~

H_P,

Hi, just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you. I guess from what I read things are still up and down with you. That's okay. Hang in there as the others said. I hope you are handling all this stress, and I know it is tremendously stressfull, okay. Just an update on me. The D is coming along. I have been dating someone. Things are going well. I am really happy for the first time in a long time, and not just because of the (someone).. But that does help.

Take care girl and I will talk to you later. I will pray for the best for you and your family.

Sharon

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: footballwidow ]</small>

H_P- I've followed your posts for awhile now and it really sounds like you're making progress, though maybe not as fast as you'd like. The reason I've been so interested in your story is because I'm now D'd and still very much in love with and hoping for a possible R with my XW, who was also the WS. I can't recall what the situation with your XH was like in the first few months after the D, but surely things have improved? The fact that he's now comfortable spending significant amounts of time at your house is positive. What the others have mentioned would indeed be a BOLD tactic but perhaps worth considering. You seem like the assertive type whereas he sounds a bit passive. As JL mentioned, the big thing would be that you'd KNOW where things stand with him and perhaps that would give you further guidance for the future. Good luck!

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: litchfield ]</small>

Hi H_P

Sorry, I haven't dropped by in a while - have been so wrapped up in my own stuff, and also trying to ration my time here on MB - pretty addictive isn't it!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I think you're doing brilliantly well. You've already made some improvements in just a short time. You are steadfast and true in knowing what you want, and I think this will shine through to your XH with time. He will see that you are not about to run off with anyone else, he will see your remorse, he will see your willingness to try to mend things between you.

As I once said to you, you of course have your children in common, and that is a big factor. H and I don't have that - we don't seem to have such strong ties. If he loved me as he said he did, he'd give it a try.....

Keep the good work up and wishing you well from very rainy London

Lisa

HI All,

Thanks to JL, KILY, Sharon, Litchfield, Rlyhurtin, and Lisa--for your posts. (I'm going off my memory so please forgive me if someone was skipped!)

I don't have time to address each of your ideas/suggestions at this moment, nor do I have privacy here to do so. Thanks though, they're very interesting. You are all a great support to me.

I will write more later--my job keeps getting busier and busier. I feel at times as if the 'Peter Principle" is starting to apply. (I think that is what it's called--you rise to your own level of incompetency?) Plus--sick again (I'm sure all this sickness is due to my hidden/suppressed sadness over the D) this week, but going to work.

I did though want to thank all of you for your good thoughts, etc.

Nothing new this week, except he did call to see if he could bring the support check by--or could he bring it the next day. This was nice, he didn't forget the date. I was lying down, sick with yet another cold--and I told him the next day would be fine. Perhaps a mistake== but I was sick, feverish, and I told him so. I asked him a few 'car' questions, and that was that. I was upbeat and sunny. Perhaps I'll be nominated for that Academy Award?

Thanks again, more later--

H_P

H_P,

Hope you are feeling better. Just giving you my support and prayers.

Sharon

HP -

Sorry to hear that you are sick again. I think you are right that it is related to your sitch. I'm a firm believer in attitude and health.

Sounds positive that he wants to drop in. Small steps.

Hope you feel better. I've been missing you.

Hi everyone,
I 'm having trouble copying and pasting, so I hope my reply makes sense in light of your postings to me.

Nothing new this week, saw exH yesterday at the door to say goodbye to the boys for exH's weekend. He was 'coldish', as he always is on the Friday 'pass off' . I was light and conversational, but only got one word answers. The 'exchange' took one minute. The boys always rush quickly out, as if trying to keep exH and I from talking. It is odd--protection for their dad, who knows?

JL-
Your ideas are interesting! I like your suggestion to tell him what I want, and that I know he doesn't trust me--and that any R is fine with him--not necessarily marriage.

As far as grabbing him and 'forcing' him to go out, it wouldn't work with him. He is so, so stubborn. He doesn't like being told what to do, ever. I 've never felt my exH was 'subject' to womanly wiles the way most men are. He used to tell me he felt threatened by the fact that I was more 5exually interested than him, overall. I feel a blatant seduction thing would bother him, although in a way deep down I think he would like it. It's like when you want something, but you don't want to admit you do.

I don't have the confidence I used to have, as my body isn't what it was. I used to be a real 'head turner', and now I'm a bit chunky--and oh do I feel middle aged! In my younger days, I even danced professionally--and I don't mean sleazy/strip dancing! It's hard for someone who danced and once focused so much on one's body to become chunky!! Dancers are perfectionists about bodies! Time, lack of exercise, and a metabolic disorder have taken their toll. (I know, lots of chunky folks say it's metabolism--but it truly is, for me!) ExH and I haven't been together that way in FOUR years. I don't know. Sex was always a bit of an issue with him--he was always a bit restrained about the whole thing. The main thing we ever fought about was sex. Not a good thing, I know. He told me I 'overwhelmed' him in that department. I'm not saying that to boast, but just to illustrate my 'free' self with his restrained self.

I learned during the whole A that sex wasn't as important as I thought it was. I also learned that a person's desire has nothing to do with their love for you, it's more just who they are, personality wise. I had more interest in it, quite frankly, when I didn't have a career that kept me so focused on work, work, work. OM was overly interested, and it wouldn't have mattered WHAT the woman looked like. He was just that type of person--overly interested, I see now. Never satisfied. That whole aspect was empty, in the end--of course.

Didn't mean to go off on that tangent, but felt it necessary to 'vent' here.

JL- Thanks again for your suggestions. Duly noted, and now being contemplated.

Kily,
Thanks for your response. Not sure on the whips, chains--in younger days exH liked the garter stuff. Now I'm simply too chunky to imagine such a get-up.

Rly,
Thanks for your response. Yes, I did say those things you mentioned--as far as biggest mistake of my life, etc. I will say them again, someday.

I admit I am tired of the rejection I get from him. It's like he can't see me at all , for who I am. I did make a HUGE mistake, but I'm a decent human being.

Thanks, Rly, so much for your kindness and your prediction of a reconciliation. I hope so, but I don't know.

Sharon,
Glad to hear from you. You're dating ? Are your children doing okay with that? Sorry to ask, just wondering how they like it. I'm glad you're doing well. You deserve it.

Litchfield,
Your name reminds me of that town, in the midwest--that bears your name. (duh--no wonder) I didn't realize you were divorced. Thanks for your support and kind words.

Lisa,
Thanks too for your reply. I appreciate it very much, and I have been following your thread. Please be patient, too!

My cold is getting better. Thanks for your help, all of you. I wish I could magically 'make' my exH forgive me. I know it has to be his choice.

Take care and have a good Saturday,
H_P

H_P,

I didn't mean to sexually go after him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I meant show up and drag him off to dinner, movie, something and then tell him exactly what is on your mind. And then demand that he repeat it so that you know he has actually heard what you say.

This ISN'T the feminine approach. It is definitely a male approach to things: frontal assualt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So while you are thinking, reread what I said with this in mind. Now I liked Kily's idea, and you know what you may feel you are to "chuncky" for this stuff, but us guys would probably have a differing opinion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> However, I believe you are right, sex is not the issue right now. No matter how much fun the images are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> What is important is that you two really talk.

I mean really air things out. It may mean that there is absolutely no way on God's Green Earth he is coming back, but at least you need to hear it. It may also be true that he really needs you to take the lead on this because for him to do so, would really make him look like a wimp (his thinking, not necessarily anyone elses).

My honest guess is that he reached the stage that MortarMan is going into and there is nothing left. But, even that doesn't mean that something cannot be built. Interesting isn't it? You may need to think in terms of building love instead of rekindling love. Your H may as well.

It seems to me this ended with a "wimper not a bang." And it needs to end with a bang. I apologize for misusing a very good line of poetry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do hope you get rid of that cold, or flu. That stuff went around here, and I was done with it most of Christmas. No fun at all.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Hi H_P,

I hope everything is good for you. I worry about you. You seem to be so focused on everyone and everything but YOU. I don't want to beat the drum for being selfish, but please take care of yourself. I know you feel awful about what has happened and the direction your life has taken but you need to realize we all make mistakes and that you are learning from them and that is all you can do. You sound like a wonderful, loving, person. Know that.

To answer your ? yes I am dating and my kids are fine with it. I am happy, but not just because of that. Hope you are well. Know that I care and think about you.

Love ya,

Sharon

H_P-

Sorry to see that you haven't been feeling well, just remember to get plenty of fluids and rest. I know that you've been feeling stuck as of late with regards to your XH but know that happiness is in your future. It's like the passage in the bible that talks about how pain leads to perserverance which develops character that fills us with hope. You're due for some good fortune so be expecting it!

Your XH seems to have this vast storage bin of hurt that he draws from each time you make some sort of advance. I remember you mentioned before that you think he'd be content to go on like this forever but I can't believe that's the case. I think it's more likely that he's validating his actions with the thought of a reconciliation at some point in the future. I'm sure you've mentioned this before but did you ever get to the point before your D where he accepted some responsiblity for the poor conditions of the M prior to the A? I know from personal experience as the BS that it can difficult to continue on that healing path after the D. I think there's a BIG temptation to shift most of the blame to the other side after the D. I'll be praying that your X is still growing and that he hasn't hardened his heart too much. Good luck and god bless.....

PS Litchfield happens to be a favorite beach of mine in the SE US!

Hello,
Thanks for your replies JL, Sharon, and Litchfield. I don't have time to properly comment on your words at this moment, but I'll try here quickly.

Time is scarce lately, especially free time away from work. I can't access this site from my work, either . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do appreciate your support and caring. Nothing new has developed, you'd be the first to know!

I dreamed of being with ExH again last night. This time we were at home here again, not on some sort of trip. It seems I am forever haunted by these dreams, about four times a week at least.

JL,
Thanks for the clarification. I guess in a way I knew you weren't referring to sex, and that was more of a fun theme --with Kily's interesting images.

I mentioned to my mother the idea of simply showing up and 'demanding' he join me for dinner, or something along those lines. She thought it would be disastrous, as he is such a STUBBORN man. He NEVER liked to take directions from anyone, and I am a rather directive person. (Why would you marry a kind of 'bossy' woman if you didn't like it, on some level...) I appreciate what you are suggesting, but I need to figure out how to go about it in a more subtle way.

A friend of mine always says, "People who don't like to assert authority seek out those who like to assert it." Perhaps once they find that person they grow to resent the 'authority'.

Also, I appreciate the reference to TS Eliot's poem. I always liked it. Yes, it has ended with a whimper, not a bang.

In a way, I simply want to say to exH, "Isn't it time we kiss and made up?" He and I never went to bed angry, ever. In the end of the marriage it was more of a state of indifference for both of us, and I was in the A full on.

So, JL, I will have to do something, this I know. I'm just a bit afraid, as I'm sure you can imagine.

Sharon,
Glad you're doing well. Thanks for the words on me taking care of myself. I have a job, too, where I'm constantly giving, giving. I do take care of myself though, and I truly feel okay waiting for my exH . If he doesn't change his mind in a few years, then I'll let go completely.
This sounds rather like an excuse, but my profession takes up so much of my time that I don't have down time where I can think much about what I need. This is a plain fact. I am gone from the house about 10 hours a day for my job, and I bring hours of work home. This is how it goes, and it will be this way for a long time. I do have a hobby I really enjoy, and I spend most of my time with my children away from work. (Hope that all made sense.)

LItchfield,
Thanks for clarifying your name! Just was curious about it. Your words were helpful to me, I will remember the scripture to which you referred. I will remember that perserverance builds hope...I hope that you're right and my exH is thinking about a reconciliation.

Time to go now. Take care everyone,
H_P

H_P,

What are you afraid of? Losing your exH? Him not talking to you anymore? Him talking to you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My father used to tell me: "Son, there are two great motivators, fear and greed." If you run into someone that seems to not have these traits watch out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When I was young I thought he meant greed for money and fear of getting beat up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> As I got older, I realized that was only a small part of what he was telling me.

In know the greed part: you want your exH back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But what is it you fear? Figure it out. They are great motivators H_P use them wisely.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL,
You're right. I guess I shouldn't have much to be afraid of. I've already lost him, we're divorced. I guess I'm afraid of him getting madder than ever. He told me in August that he wanted space. I'm respecting that as much as I can. I do think though, at times, what about me? What about what I want? Then I answer myself...thinking...Oh, you lost out at naming your needs when you cheated on this nice man.

Your dad was very wise, and I'll think more on that. Very interesting thing to think about.

I am frankly terrified of my exH telling me to get lost forever. I'm thinking that if I'm careful, and go slowly, in the end he may love me again. However, I'm terrified of losing the hope of a reconciliation, too. I know this doesn't make much sense, but this is how I see it.

The fear is truly that he'll tell me to get lost, forever, if I push too strong. Then I won't even have my hope left. Does that make any sense, at all?

Thanks for your input, JL. I appreciate it so much.

I so want to pick up the phone and call this man, this exH. He wanted 'space', he wanted 'no pressure'. I've respected that now, since he told me vehemently in August. Is five and a half months a long enough time to give him 'space'? The A lasted years, maybe he wants me to wait that long. He's never been one for timelines or remembering dates--but in this case I think he remembers dates quite well.

I'm still sick inside, when I take/allow myself the time to think about it, that I've lost such a good man--for nothing at all.

Just my thoughts at the end of an extremely long day.

TAke care,
H_P

Hi All,
Just had to post/vent here. Had a call with exH this evening. I called about a problem with DS, and then from there I switched phones and he and I talked about an hour.

We were discussing son when I just said, bluntly , 'When are you going to come home so we can be a family again?"

This led into a huge hour long discussion, and at this point I am too drained from emotion to remember fine details.

Basically, however..he reiterated his previous stuff of not wanting to try again. He's meant to be alone, and that being with me for all those years was nothing but nervousness, etc, for him. He says he hasn't been nervous or upset at all, since we've been apart. He also said the A was the final straw, but he wasn't happy before that, either. Is this BS 'fog'?

I said, "So then...the answer is 'never', you will never want me again." Something along these lines. He couldn't answer it, but he just said, "It looks doubtful, I dont want to give hope to you."

I asked him why he wasn't at least willing to give our R a shot again, to try. HE said, "I don't want to give false hope to everyone." I then said, "No one has to know.' He was referring to the kids, of course..he added.

In the end I told him bluntly I felt he was torn, that he did want to try, and I understood . HE said, "maybe", but he added that he no longer had feelings for me. He was not happy in my presence, he said.

In the end, dear MB friends, it looks like this guy has made up his mind to be alone. I asked for a shot with him at a new relationship, he said 'no'. I told him I didn't think it was good, that he was all alone there--with no confidants. I again asked him if he'd had a 'deep' conversation with anyone besides me, in years, and he said, "no". I told him this made me very sad, to think of him alone like that, but that is what he wants, he said.

He was angry, yes, when I brought up God. He said it was ridiculous in light of what I did.

I pressed him also and said , "Why do you think I keep trying with you, calling you, sending notes." He said, "because you love me." I said, "yes, and I miss you, and I want to be with you ."

I also said that I felt if we were plopped on some island somewhere that he would feel differently. He said he would be uncomfortable, but it was obvious I'd hit on something.

Oh, I told him...it looked to me like he had feelings, I could see it in his face. His response was, "That's how I look with everyone."

So--bottom line--we talked, but again it was mostly your dear HP bawling, crying in pain. This was interspersed with more in-control stuff, of course. I paused much and waited for him to talk, yes.

I don't know what to make of this. He did say that maybe he was being selfish, that for the 1st time in his life he was being selfish. (this was his response when I pointed out the kids' loss) He added that they were old, and it wasn't so bad. I told him he had to be kidding, that it was devastating to them. Then he started with the selfish thing. I said, "Well, maybe when you're done with this in your life you'll see things differently.'

His response was, "Maybe, but don't count on it."

Finally, I asked him if I should just give up completely, and not ask him ever again. He couldn't say yes to that. That was interesting. He avoided it. He said something to the effect of , "If you need to vent, you can call." have you ever? Talk about mixed messages. I said, "Well, it seems foolish to keep calling when you're telling me you want nothing to do with me."

Thanks for listening to my vent. I don't know what to think of it all. He is still so very, very angry. When I said this to him, he said, "YEs, I am."

I asked him directly, by the way, if he feels any sort of tug in his heart, to try again. Of course he denied it, but the pause was so long---I don't know.

OH, I told him I can't let go, he meant too much for me--for so long. His response was, "Well, maybe you should let go a little." What does that mean?

Funny too..he doesn't see the A as the end of it all, but stuff before that. What is that?

Off now--this is very jumbled. Thanks for the ear.
H_P

HP- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Gosh, I'm speechless.......when did you get ba!!$?

Girlfriend, this is just the beginning. You gave that man SO much to think about that he will not be sleeping for weeks.

Yes you have some answers, probabbly more questions than anything else, but - there is movement. You have demonstrated over a 5 month period that you have set your mind on something, and not waivered from that goal.....

Actions speak louder than words and he still is welcoming your calls and can't shut you out, regardless of how much he may want you to.

Don't give up. You've opened the door a crack.

Thanks, Kily. I appreciate it. I'm so sorry for your latest turn of events.

I don't know if I've opened the door. He says he doesn't mind if I call to 'vent', but he doesn't want small talk, everyday chit-chat.

He also said the A was the final straw, but even before that he had stomach aches and problems, for years due to being with me. Is this BS fog? I don't know anymore.

A dear friend of mine ( age 63) told me yesterday that this might not work out until he and I are in our sixties or seventies!!! That's twenty-thirty years away. I will wait for him for perhaps five years, but I certainly won't spend my whole life waiting for someone to decide to love me again. Her advice was also to quit bugging him, completely. She said, as the old seventies book said...

Don't push the river, let it flow.

Another fascinating thing said--she's been married 43 years, but she said many times she's wished she were alone. She said had she been in a younger generation, she probably would have divorced. Her personality is a lot like mine, and her husband is so much like my exH. It was surprising to hear this stance on divorce from such a religious woman.

Another gal who is in the same age bracket (60) mentioned to me that it has all been very recent, and exH needs time. These gals perhaps have the right idea.

Had another fantastic dream about being with exH last night. If dreams were only true!

Take care,
H_P

Hi H_P,

I'm a LONG time lurker, and this is only my second post (since '99!). I've read most of your "mega thread" and I really feel for you, IF you are sincere, and you certainly seem to be.
But, I just don't think you understand how us quiet, stoic guys think.....we love a lot...just have trouble verbalising it. When my XW found herself a better lover than me, well, I've never felt such pain...I really was doing the best I could, but it wasn't good enough. And, as with you, when things soured with her OM....I started looking better and better to her again. hooray. H_P, a guy just doesn't want to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life. I guarantee you your XH loves you, (I will ALWAYS love my XW)he just doesn't want to go through it again. I don't either. We know we weren't good enough for you, and that's unlikely to ever change. There's a lot of talk on MB about "forgiveness"....but, I think to forgive is not in the realm of us mortals...only the Almighty can do that. For the rest of us....it's what can we try to forget? My "epiphany" came on 9-11-01, when I was very nearly killed in the Pentagon attack. That changed my whole perspective on things. Life is just too damned short to spend it with someone
who will sell you out. Sorry for the harsh words.

Words can't describe how I miss "my" 3 kids (hers from a previous M)....I will still gladly pay for
their support and their college educations...but ONLY because I love them. I have been very lucky in life financially, and I COULD "outlawyer" her if I chose to. But, I might even be a harder case than your XH, because I haven't seen any of them since 9-11-01 (by my choice). Yes, I blame her for creating this situation, as I'm sure your X does. I SO wish she'd just told me she wasn't happy with me...BEFORE she found the other guy.
But I guess she might not have seen it coming, either. (ie. **** happens)

I'll NEVER turn my heart over to a woman again...
Nope, never. I do have a girlfriend now, who will help me crew my 48' ketch around the world (I hope! LOL) when I retire next year. I've already told her, tho...she is welcome to "jump ship" anytime she wishes, if she finds a better "deal"...just like I told my XW. "Fair winds and following seas to you always, my love".

So, I don't want to be the "skunk at the picnic",
or anything, H_P, but I think you should just give up. The time you are wasting waiting on your XH could be much better spent seeking your next relationship. The closer you get to age 50.....the fewer of those SN guys are you going to be able to attract. Don't waste time on a lost cause....9-11 taught me that.

Nonetheless, I admire your poise and intellect....and I hope things turn out well for you.....with or without XH.

Sincerest regards,
Bud

H_P,

Thanks for your reply to me. I think of you often too and always wish the best for you. I hope you are taking care of yourself. I know that work keeps you very busy, but stop and smell the roses once in awhile. I know that our troubles are polar opposites but I do feel a connection with you. I admire your ability to hang in there, when it would be so easy to give up. I don't feel that I gave up, just moved to a different place. I hope you reach a place where you are comfortable and happy. I also hope you have forgiven yourself. That is such a big step. I even feel I had to forgive myself for my part in the break-up of my M before I could go forward and let go. I am not saying you have to let go, but moving forward and letting go don't have to be the same thing. I was just ready to let go. I know it is the right thing to do. I never thought it would be but it came. Whatever your destiny I hope it is a happy one. I am sure it will be, you are a wonderful thoughtful person with so much to share and offer. I hope you realize that and believe it.

Your friend,

Sharon