I had my session with Steve Harley. He recommended talking to my WS about coming up with a PLAN together on how we will deal with the OW. Since my WS was still at home and had not mentioned separation again I thought my Plan A was working. Well, as luck would have it, the power company called our answering service asking does my WS want to go ahead with turning the power on at such and such address. I had not had time to talk to him about the Harley session before receiving this information.

I was devastated-even went by to look at the place since they gave the address. My WS insists that he has not made a final decision to leave and is not going to get the power turned on. However, I don't think I can believe him. Harley thinks that he still wants his cake and eat it too. Thus, not discussing the A with me and what he wants to do about the OW.

In my discussion with him last evening, he again absolutely refused to work on a PLAN about her. He was willing to LISTEN(?) to my feelings about why the A has devastated me and also seems reluctant to hurt me by leaving. He also is reluctant to leave because I am not saying that I will be sitting around waiting for him to come back home. I do feel a need to try to go on with my life and learn to live without him since I have really been dependent on him for 30 years for my emotional support. I believe he wants to go out and play and know that I will be waiting in the wings.

We made plans to go to a social event together tonignt at 7 PM which means that he is not leaving today. Also, he agreed to talk to a MC and possibly schedule an appt with the MC for Monday but that's a long ways a way and the pain over him trying to sneak out is almost excruciating. That betrayal is just as bad for me as D-Day.

I asked him Why would he want to leave that way? He really could have been straight with me and told me his plans so that we could work out a plan.

Any thoughts or words or comfort? I do need help to make it through this day.

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Keep up with plan A. I know it is a struggle but having done the cake eating thing I sort of know what you are going through.
Be strong, be confident and if you can find it here read someone's 180 degree solution. It is a link posted on someones thread. It helped me survive plan A. Now that I am in plan B I have realized WH needs to figure things out on his own.
Don't give up, show him what a positive, beautiful strong woman he married.
Fog sucks.
Good luck and keep posting,
Hugs,
Layli

Thanks, Layli. Will keep you posted.

Harley thinks that I will have to do Plan B. That's discouraging, too, given their belief in Plan A.

This reminds me so much of my H's actions. He actually promised me that he would not leave without telling me in advance. The very next day he called from work as I was cooking dinner ready to tell me that he wasn't coming home. He insisted to our counselor that that was equivalent to telling me in advance - she didn't buy it, and he finally said that maybe he was just a jerk - a statement that was hard to argue with.

Please do whatever you can to protect yourself financially.

Financially I'm OK. Why doesn't he go ahead and leave? Does he want me to let him go agreeably so that he won't feel like a jerk? Should I say its OK for him to leave rather than going through this fear of the unknown?

I'll offer an answer to your last question first -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I say its OK for him to leave rather than going through this fear of the unknown? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, sorta.

IMHO, you have to relinquish all control over him. It's clear to me that he feels like he's been too controlled for a long time - whether this is justified or not. Don't kick him out the door, but I suggest you make it clear that leaving is his prerogative. Don't state or imply that his leaving defines your end - make no threats and imply no consequences. By doing this you're exerting more control over him. Communicate that you don't particularly want him to leave, but if he feels this is needed to resolve his issues, he's free to do so - and you WILL help him and wait to see what happens. No, you won't wait forever, but you're willing to do ANYTHING to bebuild a terrific marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>Harley thinks that I will have to do Plan B. That's discouraging, too, given their belief in Plan A.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you misunderstand Plan A/B. The belief is in Plan A AND Plan B. It just so happens that frequently Plan B isn't needed. I agree with Steve that in your case, it seems like it MAY be needed. The reason for this is the whole "control" thing. I believe your H needs to be empowered to make a decision to leave and, if he does, he needs to see it through.

Just my humble opinion. I encourage you to discuss this with Steve.

WAT

WAT:

What makes the CONTROL ISSUE seem so clear to you? Please explain more what you mean by he needs to be EMPOWERED to leave. Does that mean that he needs to hear its OK for him to leave? Doesn't that mean he's wanting me to exert control? Otherwise, why doesn't he just leave on his own? Maybe he didn't want me to find out and just wanted to leave. Right?

Why do you think he's going on and on about how angry he is about the past and won't talk to me about the A? When I mention the A, it really pisses him off like that's a taboo subject. I think he is hating my discoveries of his secrets.

Do you think he's very much in love with her and doesn't love me and this is a hopeless case?

I just want your opinion. I am feeling devastated like my whole previous life was a lie and useless. I thought my marriage was EVERYTHING. I am really kicking myself for not attending to it. I can't understand why I was so neglectful. I see it clearly now but it seems too late.

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

mimi - first, I may be totally wrong.

My suggestions about the control issue are based on your descriptions of his feelings of disrespect from you and the children. I'll go back and read your earlier posts to see if I can pinpoint something specific, but it's just the overall big picture impression I've formed in following your story.

Perhaps others can chime in here and either tell me I've got it wrong or provide their perspective. Please do nothing on my advice alone!!!! After all, I'm divorced.

As far as his leaving is concerned, it seems you've made it clear that he CAN'T leave. You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He also is reluctant to leave because I am not saying that I will be sitting around waiting for him to come back home. I do feel a need to try to go on with my life and learn to live without him since I have really been dependent on him for 30 years for my emotional support. I believe he wants to go out and play and know that I will be waiting in the wings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think he wants you to exert control. He's obviously taken SOME control in that he decided to have an affair. He simply could be just like so many other WSs who cannot seem to make up their minds and genuinely don't know what they want.

His anger at discussing the A and the past is very typical. When this happens, drop the subject, or better yet, don't go there at all. Don't tell him of all your discoveries. Don't put pressure on him whatsoever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think he's very much in love with her and doesn't love me and this is a hopeless case? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely NOT! IMHO, he's using sweet young thing as an outlet. Something he can control - here's the control thingy again. She's gonna end up getting hurt BIG TIME!! But, this does not necessarily mean he'll come crawling back when the novelty of her wears off. This is why Plan A is so vital - you have to remedy the poor marital contributions you own in the meantime and demonstrate the improvements so he'll have less excuse to find another toy. I think you're well on your way doing this.

That said, former WSs here will tell you that their feelings of "love" - whether it was really love or not - were overwhelming. But based on your descriptions, he doesn't sound like he's in a deep EA. JMHO.

Please, please, please listen to other opinions.

WAT

Mimi, My H. left last June. I did not want him to and he pretty much made up his mind after I forced him to end it with OW1. He didn't end it of course and he was upset because I was trying to control everything. That is a big issue also in our relationship. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you or will never come back. My H. is finally seeing the light, it has been slow and torturous and I have done many things wrong, but I know deep down he doesn't really want to end it all. He has not spoken of divorce, I'm the one that has brought it up before. You can't control anything he does, which is a hard and long lesson I have had to learn. He is starting to post here-I think it is on the second page now-which is good but even tho we want things to happen quickly it does take time. WAT is right-the OW will get hurt. Try to plan A. sometimes it is easier when they are gone and everything isn't right in your face. In my case I am just burned out from the length of everything and don't feel I have much left to give. My love bank is at 0 right now. Try not to obsess too much, that's another thing I did and it really doesn't help, it made things much worse for me and my H. DBD

I just found out that he did get the power turned on at his apartment although he insisted to me that he was not going to do it. What is that all about?

I am hurting so much today that I just can't stand it. I would never believed in a million years that this would have have happened to us. I guess that's the problem.

He keeps asking me WHY I did this and WHY I didn't do that. I don't know WHY. I can't give him an answer. I keep saying I want to work on the future but he is not giving me a chance.

He does call the OW a "Diversion"

Can anyone help me understand his method of moving out?

Should I help him?

I don't know if I can stand to see his brand new apartment while he leaves me in our 13 year old house that needs lots of repairs with no man around to do them.

Thanks for all your support today.

Why am I feeling like the past 25 years was a sham if it ended like this? I always thought I would live out a Cinderella story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>He does call the OW a "Diversion"

Why am I feeling like the past 25 years was a sham if it ended like this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that OW is a diversion. An outlet. Could be the only honest thing he's said.

mimi- even IF he follows thru and moves out, this is NO WHERE close to the end.

Try to keep control of your emotions and let him go. Attempts to stop him will only make matters worse. You cannot stop him.

Everything else is right out of the WS script.

Have you looked in to anti-depressants? I suggest you do, it's a sign of strength, not weakness.

WAT

Why is important for him not to see me emotional?
Just wondered...

Day by Day:

In what kind of ways did you obsess and how did you stop it?

Are you saying that he feels I'm trying to control him by asking him to stop the A? Isn't that just the right thing for him to do if he wants to be married?

I'm thinking my WS would have loved it if had not gotten caught and was able to keep the both of us.

I'm going to try to work on letting him go but its so very hard after being with someone for so long. But I have to admit that I have only had him in body but not soul for a long time.

Another question: Why is more angry NOW since D-Day than before? He wants to rant and rave at me. Its that in order to get me to cry? or for me to ask him to leave?

Still struggling.....

WAT,
I am on antidepressants. They have helped get through the day at work, I think. I can at least eat now.

The biggest thing you have to remember is when the wayward spouse is in the fog you have to treat them like they have been abducted by aliens. They are not themselves and nothing they say is going to make any sense.
You have to be strong and focused on yourself.
My physician and Steve Harley told me to show him what he would be missing. I did, he still left but now I feel he is having regrets. I am not in the picture so he can't blame everything on me.
If he is going to go, let him go and read books and research the sight and figure out what you can do to better yourself.
It's like being on a rollercoaster, you are at the top of a hill and screaming for it to stop. It isn't so you might as well buckle down and ride it out.
Get surviving the affair and be really careful about ultimatums and using the word never.
Be as prepared as you can be for when he comes out of the fog.
Good luck,
Hugs,
Layli

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>Why is important for him not to see me emotional?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could be because this makes him feel guilty or because he feels this is your devious way of controlling him or he just doesn't like to be around emotional people or who knows? I don't like to be emotionally implicated by somebody in my life - makes me feel uncomfortable. You, too, I bet.

mimi - We know it's hard to cope. I believe it would help you tremendously if you not try to figure him out. Remember, you're rational and he's not. Ever try to argue with a drunk? Same thing. You can't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Are you saying that he feels I'm trying to control him by asking him to stop the A?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure what DBD meant, but I think this is correct. Please stop trying to end the A. You can't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Isn't that just the right thing for him to do if he wants to be married?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course it is!!! But do you think he understands this? Re-read rule #1. You are not dealing with a rational person.

mimi: We can't fix our marriage as long as you continue the affair.

(what he hears): You MUST end the affair RIGHT NOW or else you HAVE to spend time with sonebody who doesn't nag you and pester you nor tries to tell you what's good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it? mimi, you're gonna be OK. This thing ain't gonna last. No way. Plan on what you're gonna do when it's over: be the best mimi you can be. Eliminate your faults - we all had them. Steve will help you.

WAT

Mimi,

I know this is hell right now, but just know that you are not alone. The fact is that there is almost nothing you can do right now to make it better but there is a WHOLE LOT you can do to make it worse. The key right now will be to control your emotions and don't love bust him. That will only embolden him and give him justification to continue the affair.

What plan of action did Steve Harley give you? Did he tell you to go to Plan b now or to continue in Plan A for awhile?

Why did your H give the power company his HOME #? Could he have done that without realizing they would call his home maybe?

I am so sorry this is happening to you.

Mimi, did he admit he rented the place? How long is the contract? What were his plans?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>The fact is that there is almost nothing you can do right now to make it better but there is a WHOLE LOT you can do to make it worse.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, these are VERY wise words. Wish I'd written them.

This illustrates an earlier point I tried to make with you: time is on your side.

mimi, please recall one of the premises of Plan A/B - there is nothing you can do to end the affair. To hasten it's end, do not interfere with it. This is what Mel is saying.

Leave him and the affair alone. We know it's hard to do. We know you hurt. We hurt with you. Stay with us, OK?

WAT

Hi Mimi,

You have gotten good advice and direction, I hope it gives you hope.

I wish I had some words that would help you through this awful time. I went through what you are going through over two years ago--and it was so awful that I still have a hard time reading posts where people are experiencing it now. I'm telling you this for two reasons--1) it really IS as bad as it feels and 2) you really can and will get through it, and it won't be like this forever. That's why it is so important that you take care of yourself now, because that's HOW you will get through this.

Incidentally, WAT's links in his sig line was like someone tossing me a life preserver, especially when I was in so much pain and turmoil that I couldn't reach out to people yet and just lurked on these boards.

Take care Mimi--it really does get better because WE get better.

Well, I'm totally confused. My WS came home exactly at 7 on the dot to go with me to a funeral home viewing of an 18 year old whose father was our son's soccer coach about 6 years ago. My WS was more teary than the grieving father as he hugged the family members. He seemed touched by seeing the soccer families after such a long time. We traveled together with these folks for years. It must have been so clear to him that WE HAVE A HISTORY and all of these other husbands and wives are together. Of course, you can never be sure what WS's are thinking. Also, all of this can change by tomorrow. I'm learning.

I thought some more about my talk with Steve Harley. I think he saw my WS as one who would have tried to "have cake and eat it too" as long as possible if he had not been caught. I think he sees by WS as unable to make a decision. Therefore, he was encouraging me to try to begin a conversation with my WS about developing a plan as a TEAM to deal with the OW. As you all know, this did not work out.

Well, he is home tonight and very quiet. Is this the quiet before the storm. I've just been joking with him about stuff on TV and he couldn't help but laugh with me. Overall, its been a good evening. He's asleep now.

I'm concerned about that CONDO though. I asked he if knew the lights had been turned on and he said NO. He was supposed to have called them today to have them turned off. If he has signed the lease, why is he here? Was he planning on using it as a love nest as opposed to the motel and is bothered that he got caught again and I know exactly where it is ? Also, I'm a little concerned that he actually purchased it in some way, hopefully not in her name. I went to the Register of Deeds and found out it was not purchased in his name. I didn't think to ask about hers. Unfortunately, he is no longer a man who can be trusted. I will need to ask him directly about it tomorrow I guess.

Who knows tomorrow maybe moving day. Yes, I've decided to let him go he if wants to. I felt good tonignt with the other families. I knew that this was where we needed to be and that his choice to be with the OW at this time is craziness or irrationality. He certainly could not have comfortably brought her to the funeral home. I can hold my head proud among our acquaintances and friends.

This position is certainly less depressing and anxiety-provoking. I know it will not last but I'm enjoying it right this minute.

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP! I will be continuing to depend on you guys.