UC-It is starting to get a little to similar for us.

The papers did not list an amount of alimony. It only said "temporary and permanent spousal maintenence." I also forgot that I am being asked to pay for her attorneys fees!

****VENT*****

I don't understand how it is that she starts sleeping with another man 1 month after we get married and now I am supposed to pay HER alimony and pay for HER attorny fees!!!!

OK the venting is over!

I guess I don't need to worry about a legal separation anymore.

STSI

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying To Save It:
<strong>Well it happened! I got the Dv papers today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

She wants the following:
Uncontested divorce
permanent spousal maintence
pay her debts
pay her to move to a new residence and furnish it

I can't believe what she is asking for! I always knew this day would come, but that does not make it any easier.

So much pain right now
STTSI</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHAT? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

She wants the following:
Uncontested divorce - OK, GET IT FROM THE OM
(NOTE: OW ACCUSED WS OF COMMITTING EMOTIONAL
ADULTERY ON HER WHEN HE CAME HOME).
permanent spousal maintence - OK, GET IT FROM THE
OM. OH YEA AND BY THE WAY, LET THE OM GIVE
YOU SOME MONETARY SUPPORT. LEAST HE CAN DO.

pay her debts - SURE RIGHT AFTER SHE DOES.
pay her to move to a new residence and furnish it - GREAT, LET THE OM PAY FOR IT. IN FACT, LET THE OM MEET ALL HER NEEDS!

YIKES! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Talk about having your cake and eating it to? Now a real crazy question.....what are the dumb chances that she will get any of this?

I am sooo sorry to hear these outlandish horribly selfish demands...... makes me want to puke.

I am embarressed for all womankind.

Please protect yourself and your assets.

take care,
L.

Orchid- Thanks for your response!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orchid:

YIKES! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Talk about having your cake and eating it to? Now a real crazy question.....what are the dumb chances that she will get any of this?
-------------------------------

The chances are slim, but unfortunately it is the cost and the pain of fighting for it that I didn't want and now have. Ughh, this is so frustrating and so upsetting.

It is good to know that I have the support of everyone here.
STTSI

<small>[ January 30, 2003, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: Still Trying To Save It ]</small>

STTSI,

I'm am sorry to hear this. These are ridiculous demands. What world is she in??!! Does she really expect you to roll over? Good grief. I'm am PO'd too if that helps.

From what I understand anything you earned prior to marriage is not marital property. The same goes for debts too. There is no conversion whereas, "poof", your stuff suddenly becomes marital property. This request is laughable.

Were these papers of the do it yourself kind or were they from an attorney?

How long do you have to respond?

Where do you want to go? Delay? Proceed?

I feel for you. If you want, I can post a link to all the legal mumbo jumbo I have read. Unfortunately it sounds like you are going to have to retain an attorney(ugh!!). When/if you respond I would come back that she gets nothing, due to the length of the marriage. There is no harm in starting low, and I mean low(zero).

Again, I am sorry to here this. Keep strong. You have people pulling for you.

Luki- Her Mom is on marriage #3 so she has lots of practice at this and I feel is running the show!

Luki Quote
"Were these papers of the do it yourself kind or were they from an attorney?"

They were from a firm so she is serious about this crap!

Luki Quote
"How long do you have to respond?"

The usual 30 days. I was planning on stalling as long as possible, but after seeing her demands I don't want the M anymore. I just want out as quick as possible. I will NOT roll over for her! I will give her what is hers and what is fair but that is it! My love for her is gone, if I see her again in my life it will be too soon. I know I am emotional right now and I may feel different later but right now I hate her. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Luki Quote
"When/if you respond I would come back that she gets nothing, due to the length of the marriage. There is no harm in starting low, and I mean low(zero)."

I will respond to her and I will fight for what is right. I am not out to screw her but I don't want to be screwed either. My lawyer agrees with me that she gets nothing, in fact if all goes well she should owe ME money! Ha, that would be great! I paid many, many thousands of dollars of pre-marital debt for her, she says I don't get that back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thanks for your response Luki, it is always good to hear from you.

I really appreciate the support from al of you!
STTSI

permanent spousal support .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> WTF? This "woman" is 25 years old !!!! She can't support herself?

This is crazy .... NUTZ .... a crock of cow manure

Laughable if it were not so sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>permanent spousal support .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> WTF? This "woman" is 25 years old !!!! She can't support herself?

This is crazy .... NUTZ .... a crock of cow manure

Laughable if it were not so sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah Pepper, you know what makes it even worse? She has degrees in two different fields! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Me I have a high school education, thats it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Luki- I would love any links you could provide for me. I think I am going to need all the help I can get with this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Eek! Double post, sorry.

<small>[ January 31, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Still Trying To Save It ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying To Save It:
<strong> right now I hate her. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Utterly sad, isn't it? I am not at a point of hating my W but right now I could care less what happens to her. One of my W's purposes was to get me out of her way, to get me to stop fighting for the M. "What would it take for you to see there is no more M?" she would say to me. Well, she seems to have succeeded, the way I feel right now I don't want her back. You probably feel the same way.

Stay strong and be well.

STTSI:

"Yeah Pepper, you know what makes it even worse? She has degrees in two different fields! Me I have a high school education, thats it!"

Some of the brightest minds don't have advanced degrees. Isaac Asimov once said "I have a PhD, which stands for "phoney Dr."

I have a PhD, too, and it did little good preventing the mess I got myself into.

I think what you are doing is a better measure of the kind of man you are than her "two degrees" is of her integrity. You've got a lot to be proud of.
-Qfwfq

So now I have a question about forgiveness. How do you know when you have forgiven someone? I would like to send her a letter and tell her that I am trying to forgive her and become a better man from this situation. But I don't honestly know if I have forgiven her!

Do you ever forgive this? How do you know you have? I think it feels easier for me since I have NC with her so the A is not in my face anymore. The message at church today was about forgiveness and how we need to forgive others of their sins. I would love to forgive her but I don't know if I can with the A still going on.

BTW, I am back to wanting my M again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Everyday I have different feelings about my M and my WW.
STTSI

Here are some links that will help you to know where you stand.
http://www.custodyattorney.com/ericcnelson/property.htm

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/517.html

I see no harm in sending a letter telling her that you still want to work on your M, as long as you feel that way. This will leave the door cracked for her should she come to her senses. At least you will have done all that you can. Hang in there.

Luki- Thanks for the links! I have been looking at the state one and have found lots of info.

So I have finally decided that I am done with my M. Even though my WW filed I held out hope that she might come out of the fog and want me back, no more. Fog or not, I need to move on and want the Dv done as quick as possible. I don't know what changed but I have made up my mind.

My WW's step-sister spoke to my WW's step-father the other day about their support of the A. First he tried saying that he didn't know how far it had gone, then he asked "what do you consider an affair?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Can you believe that? A grown adult has to ask his kids that question! The step-sister said that she though it was pure BS that my WW is asking for the things that she is. She said all it will do is drag out legal fees that neither of us can afford. She told him that she will help ME pay for MY legal fees in order to make sure that I don't get screwed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Ha! That makes me feel good!

She said that she wants nothing to do with WW (her step-sister) and will continue a friendship with me. I have always liked step-sister and husband and I am glad to hear her say that!

Anyway, sad news about the M <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , but sweet justice with the step-sister! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

STTSI

Hi Still ~

I'm late in responding, but I want you to realize that what your wife is asking for is more than likely what her attorney told her to ask for as a start point for negotiation.

My attorney (when I was divorcing my husband) wrote up my divorce papers exactly the same way. And he told me, from the beginning, that I wouldn't get all of that, it was simply that what you don't ask for, you can't receive. For example, with permanent alimony (which I am sure no judge would grant to a 25 year old woman with 2 degrees), I was told that in the state of NJ, permanent alimony was only granted in the case of long term marriages (10 years or more) where one spouse has given up a career to support the other spouse's career (ie a stay at home mom). Even though I fit that description, I was told, I was only 32...the best I could expect was 5 years of "rehabilitative" alimony so that I could go to school and get back on my feet, but after that I'd be expected to take care of myself. But my attorney said, look, this is reality, but, you never know. We'll ask for everything and see what happens.

Heck, I didn't even know that asking for legal fees was part of the standard operating procedure. I was in quite a bit of shock when I saw the papers. My attorney asked for full, sole legal custody of the kids, permanent alimony, all legal fees, and to top it all off, a restraining order to keep my husband away from me (again, standard operating procedure when papers are delivered).

Her attorney is simply doing his/her job. Your wife is of course, fully responsible for asking for a divorce, BUT, I think its better to assume that she's following the advice of an attorney, not necessarily believing that she deserves or will get all of that.

If you get yourself a competent attorney, you'll find out that its not nearly as bad as it sounds. Especially since she's 25, I highly doubt you'll be asked to pay permanent alimony.

BrambleRose-Thanks for your response. I understand that she is asking for far more than she ever expects to get from me. But it upsets me because I have suggested that we use a mediator to settle this and her response is that she only wants our lawyers to talk.

There is no reason it should be this complicated. As for the fact that it is her lawyer talking, you are probably correct. But, she is the one that has to agree to the papers and that makes it her decision. She knows I will not roll over and play dead, she knows I will fight for what is right. All she is doing is racking up legal fees neither of us can afford!

I told her in the beginning that I am not out to screw her but that I don't want to get screwed either.

If only she could get her head out of her butt and see how much pain she is causing!

Another day in the life of a BS!
STTSI

Hey STTSI,

Glad to hear that some of the ILs are in this world. Makes you feel a little more sane, doesn't it.

-Luki

So this is where I get a better picture of your situation. Thanks for letting me know. All the while I thought you only post at the poetry section. I can see why you feel this way about divorce now. It's so permanent, sometimes we feel we haven't given it enough chance to work it out and we're not ready for closure just as yet. Totally acceptable if you were to ask me. I got a piece of advice from my older sister. She too urged me not to jump into divorce but get a separation with hopes that my H will come around.It's so hard to decide because we fear the outcome of it. Would we be wasting our time and draging the pain longer only to find out it is never meant to be that way? Or would we be rewarded with a happy ending thus making our sacrifices all worthwhile? I sure as heck don't know the answers ST. Sorry.How could I offer advice when I myself am going through something that I can't find the sound answer to..yet. Keep checking on the poetry section. The more intense my feelings are, the more they flow. I don't see anything wrong about you showing her your poems as long as your main purpose is to alleviate your feelings and not to get some positive feedback from her. If it's the latter, you might be setting yourself up for more disappointments. Do I sound pessimistic? I hope not. I learned in life that the more you expect, the more you set yourself up for disappointments so, I try to limit my expectations to as reasonable as possible. Keep me posted!
SS

Luki- Yeah it is nice to have someone from her family on my side! I just wish it could have been my WW!

SS- Thanks for joing me here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That was my hope in doing the separation was to give her more time to come back to me if she wanted to. At this point I don't care what happens. She started the divorce and she can have one.

I will write more later!
STTSI

Met with my divorce lawyer today! My lawyer knows her lawyer so they talked and surprise, surprise my WW never told her lawyer that SHE moved out on her own and SHE has a boyfriend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She also never mention all the debt that I paid off.

So we'll see what type of reaction my response gets.

Keeping my fingers crossed for an easy divorce so I can move on with my life.
STTSI

So it has bee 3 weeks since I responded to her Dv papers. Nothing, nada, zip. No response from her.

Then today I noticed her number on the caller ID. No message though.

I had my heart set on an easy divorce. No I don't know what is going on.

Aggh! Just venting.

STTSI