Mimi,

Just a suggestion.... do a credit check on your H. I did on both WS and the OW.

Even if the OW were to read this now, it doesn't matter........ she wasn't as well off as she said anyway. LOL!!!

L.

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Mimi-

Don't get angry (or maybe I should say- get angry but hide it) and don't LB! You will throw him into her arms! I lost my temper after my H broke it off (all that anger bubbled out) and it led to continued contact (sporadic phone calls) for 6 weeks. They probably would have happened anyway- but my anger didn't help. OW was the only one he could talk about my anger with.

What I mean about enmeshed is he's more available to see her, fall into her world. He took a big, destructive step in leaving. Sometimes when they make the break they fall more deeply into the fog, get more tangled up in the web. Other times it terrifies them, they got what they wanted, but the grass isn't really greener. However it can take them some time to come to this realization.
Don't despair because your H can come out of it still. (The fact that OW isn't over there every night is a good sign, but don't rely on that). In the meantime, you have nothing to lose by protecting yourself financially. It may be an unpleasant consequence that will result in H deciding OW isn't worth it, or in the worst case scenario you will come out of a divorce financially stable.

Just stand up for yourself gracefully and respectfully. You can not control him but he does need to do what's right- sign a separation agreement to ease your mind during this separation that he needs to "think". If he doesn't want a separation he can move home and break it off with OW. That is his choice.

You know how when you are getting a 3 year old ready for school you offer them the choice of the green pants or the blue pants. You don't offer them 3 more choices. You don't let them say they will wear the orange shorts in the middle of winter. Or perhaps more apropos, the child gets a choice of doing his chores or going to his room. Again there are just two choices.

The alarm system is good, but it could just mean that he's feeling guilty for abandoning you and he will relieve that guilt by getting the alarm so he can say, it's ok that she doesn't have a man in the house- I got her an alarm- her and S are protected even if I'm not there.

I see it as a guilt reliever more than true concern. But play on that guilt- tell him you appreciate his concern for your safety, but that if you are laying awake in fear of being abandoned, without a separation agreement, you will be extremely anxious and unable to function. He needs to sign something. Reassure him that it doesn't mean your marriage is over, but if he's not willing to work on the marriage at this time, you need that document in place.

It's hard to distinguish between 1) he doesn't want to sign it because he sees it as a step towards ending the marriage and he wants to fence sit and keep his options open vs. 2) he is sneaky and wants to screw you by separating in July. You do have an ace in the hole in case 2 because it seems like he will lose his deposit if he doesn't have the sep agreement.

Again, get advice from Steve- the master- who has dealt with many of these cases over the years. I can not emphasize that enough- I and others on this board have opinions but we are not professionals.

Forget about OW Mimi. She is dirt under your heel. Focus on yourself, treat yourself like gold. Go on that hike- preferably with others!

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

If you're going to dangle a carrot, make it the separation agreement in return for the siging of the division of money, such as he gets 10% and you get the other 90%.
This is what you're worried about, and without the separation agreement, he loses deposit.
Doesn't matter what you get now, I have to tell you that once his income drops, he can have that changed by the courts.
He can always go back and have them renegotiate it.
But by putting it in a percentage amount, you should be ok.
And another ? I have. If he owns the business, why is it changing in July to cut income in half? Does he have a partner? Merging? Franchise?
What exactly is effecting the business in this negative manner?
Keep your Atty. It may cost money, but without legal counsel, you're up the creek without a paddle!
God bless Mimi, LouLou

LouLou .... You're crackin' me up ! 10% his 90% Mimi's ....

Hey .... this works for me LOL!

Just a thought.... if he is going to try and make a go with the OW..... then this is NOT the time to fight it. In fact IMHO, this is the time to smush their faces together.... I did that. Told Ws to let the OW meet all his needs...... the one she didn't want to meet was his financial need - LOL!!! I told him no problem. I took my name off his credit cards, closed them all and started to change the billing address to the OWs house.... LOL!! He came to his senses before the 1st statement came out and I didn't have to follow through.

Sometimes the best way is to throw them off balance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

L.

LOL!!

He may need me to sign in order to qualify to buy the condo. Remember, all the cars are in his name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Also, he's been having lots of credit inquiries done at mortgage companies! His credit score is GOOD. Mine is EXCELLENT.

I can't do the OW's credit report without her Social Security No.

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,

Here's the scary part. Sometimes doing a background search provides that info.

L.

mimi - let me be a voice of caution.

I detect your sense of growing anger and increased "fiestiness" and willingness to meddle in your H's plans.

Please be careful NOT to meddle with malice.

Yes, take steps to protect yourself and don't take steps that protect him - but don't take steps that hinder him, either. Let the cards fall where they may. He has to suffer the consequences of any decisions he makes. If he puts himself in a financial bind, oh well! But if you do things that make this worse that don't have to be done to protect you, it can only hurt you in the long run because he will find out and it'll be a HUGE LB.

He doesn't need your help whatsoever to screw up. Do not put yourself in a position of "causing" his screw ups.

Understand?

WAT

WAT:

Please tell me more specifically what you think I mignt be doing wrong. I meet with him around noon. I'm just going to encourage him to agree to a reasonable monthly payment that will ensure that I am able to pay my bills and take care of my home and my son.

A lot of what you hear me saying here lately is ranting. It feels better to be angry than as sad as I am getting. I am so very lonely at home. I have NEVER LIVED ALONE as an adult. I went straight from a college dorm to living with my husband. Its a big adjustmnent. Plus I live in a big house for which I have total responsibility for everything as well as full responsibility for getting my son to and from. These latter issues are contributing to the anger.

I am just going to work on protecting myself, though and trying to get stronger.

I met with my minister last night and that was healing. He reminded me of the folks in the church that love me and that they are all praying for me as I go through this difficult time. I grew up in the church and it is a big support system that I have not been using. I have stayed away out of embarassment because of what my WS has been doing and having to face going there as alone. A lot of our social activities were there with other married couples. Of course when WS began his A he wanted to stop these activities. I did not know why at the time. Now it is clear.

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>A lot of what you hear me saying here lately is ranting.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rant away - to us!!

OK, maybe I'm overly cautious. By all means, take whatever actions you deem necessary to protect yourself. I can't point to a specific thing you've said that I think you shouldn't do - I was reacting to your recent tone that sorta communicated "stick it to him." My point was, let him "stick it to himself." You don't need to do anything extra to help him.

Good luck. Use your brain. Assume he's not using his. (The fog can sometimes be beneficial to BSs!)

WAT

WAT:

Thanks for being there!

Steve Harley is on vacation all next week so I am going to try to play it cool as can be.

I have been having this fantasy of scheduling with my WS for SF. I know that this does not fit into a PLAN B and would allow him to cakewalk and would make me seem needy BUT just sharing this fantasy as I have been sleeping in that empty bed.

You are not really in Plan B yet.

On the other hand, having SF with him now that he's moved out could send the wrong message and encourage more fence sitting.

But definitely- look sexy as hell!

I had another 1.5 hr. meeting with my WS today. I will try to stick with the facts and not give my commentary. I really want to know what you guys think about this. Generally, he was close to tears throughout our meeting and was agreeable to almost anything I wanted. Absolutely no anger or hostility was expressed by him.

He agreed to signing the Separation Agreement, giving me more than enough really. He asked me to explain the amount. I simply said that's how much I need to pay the bills. Really he is covering all the bills and my salary would be extra. I figure that's only fair since he has no household or childrearing responsibilities. He said that he understands my need to do the agreement for my "protection". He also spontaneously added that if I need more money each month to let him know. I am to take his name off of the checking account, continue to write the bills and he will deposit the monthly amount at the end of the month per our agreement.

He says that he knows that I have reason to not believe him but that he is "working towards" coming home in mid March if I will take him back. He states that he has been keeping busy during the week working on developing the new business that he has been researching. (Remember the weekend trip? ) He has been successful with this. It seems like a new obsession/drug. My WS, as you mignt have noted, is an entrepreneur that knows how to succeed at business and does well. This was meant to convey that he has not been seeing her this week. He is probably telling the truth; remember, I've been checking and she's been at home each night this week.

About the condo? He explained that he could not see throwing away money in an apartment. He reported going to all the apts. in town and he did not feel that they are worth the money. I told him that with the separation agreement he can now buy the condo. He states that he does not want it, the carpet is cheap, you can hear through the walls, it is really like an apt. He asked did I mind loosing his $2000 deposit? I indicated that its pennies compared to destroying a marriage, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with buying a condo where his OW may have been and that I did not have the chance to see before purchasing, etc. I questioned as others have stated here whether it is such a good investment and reported on what someone said about being able to get the money back.

I stated that he is welcome to come back if I have indication that he will "never see or talk to the OW ever again in his life". I almost fell on the floor but he said that he knows that he would HAVE TO do that. He further stated that he has been sad since leaving because he knows that he does not have a "relationship with anyone that would be with him through thick and thin". I can't remember this other quote exactly but it was something regarding how "young people" think. I told you guys previously how he has been making negative comments about "young people". He stated that he knew that I would be there if he were on his deathbed and that stated that we have a "longterm" or "longlasting" (can't remember which one) relationship. He was talking about trips we can take in the future, like to "Thailand". He wants us to travel the world? I just sat back flabbergasted (inside).

However, I went on to say that I will have to proceed with the separation because I know that all this can change once he begins seeing her again this weekend. I even went on to talk about how she's like a "drug" that changes his thinking. Steve did say it's alright to say to him that he is dangerous to me because he is with her. I did say in Plan A that it was alright for him to keep his stuff there but that he cannot go and come as he pleases, that he will need to call beforehand. Anyways, the new alarm system will be put in and he won't know the codes.

So I don't get the impression that July is an issue as the lawyer indicated. He is confident that he will be making even more money by that time given this new business venture. He further indicated that he wants ME to share in the benefits of it with reference to the traveling, etc.

What do you think? He really seemed sincere more like his old self again. We really laughed and joked. Of course I gave him general admiration regarding his success with the new business. I said I love you and he said I LOVE YOU back.

Good job, mimi. Especially this part:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>He asked did I mind loosing his $2000 deposit? I indicated that its pennies compared to destroying a marriage...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're in control. Keep doing what you're doing.

The only part that worries me is what if this new business is the next Microsoft? Is he SO devious that he's setting you up with what looks like now to be WAY in your favor, but he prevents you from benefitting from something much bigger later? Maybe I'm just paranoid here.

Aside from that, everything looks and sounds good.

WAT

WAT:

He indicated a desire for me to participate in the business. He thinks he'll do better with "family stability". However, with him, there's always a need to be cautious.

What do you think is going on? Is there trouble in paradise?

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Could be trouble in paradise. Even if there isn't, he is feeling somthing.

You know by now to take the postive things he's saying with a grain of salt. But he IS saying positive things. Hope for the best, but expect less. As long as you see progress like this - even in the face of legal separation - Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. But do not deny him the "opportunity" to reap what he has sown.

WAT

The part I like best is his willingness to talk about the A, his willingness to accept some responsibility for our relationship problems and the absence of blaming at this time. I guess he doesn't have anything to be mad at me about so he has to take a look at himself.

Mimi,

It sounds like you are doing really good. I think the next step is to start doing things FOR YOU and to learn to stop being concerned about him. As long as you aren't lovebusting him, you give him alot of room to think about things. You can then get ready for Plan B down the road. I hope you were kidding about sleeping with him??

Why you guys don't think I should be encouraged about the meeting today? Mel you are saying Plan B and WAT you are paranoid. Is he cakewalking again? Do you think he's going to change back soon? In your history with these things, go ahead and tell me what you think? What is this stage? Do you think he was acting this way to feel better about himself?? I'm confused!!!

Don't worry. I'm going to continue working on myself. I'm happy about not worrying about whether he's coming home on the weekend. I'm changing to a feminine bedspread. I'm going to buy some new workout clothes.

Mel:
I do need SF. That's going to be a big problem for me. There was lots of sexual vibes in the room while we talked. Neither one of us of course acted on it.

mimi - I WAS encouraged for you after your post of the meeting. But I will not ever declare victory for you - I've read of too many waffle kings/queens here. Some of these posts have come from a poster named mimi. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It would not help you for me or anybody to give you false hope. I bet I speak for many other MBers saying we'd rather err on the side of caution. That's all.

You are doing everything you reasonably can right now.

WAT