Borrowing rev's term ... you wait until the cow come home to declare victory even then that is just the start of recovery. You are doing absoultely good ... SH would be proud of you. However you should start a bit elusive, for instance, you should let him know that the offer of coming home is not a blank check. It has expiration date ... you need to convery to him that the longer this dragged on ... you might loose your love for him. Kind of setting up for later when you need to give him plan B letter.

JMHO - rh -

Mimi .... start sending yourself flowers ...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>Why you guys don't think I should be encouraged about the meeting today? Mel you are saying Plan B and WAT you are paranoid. Is he cakewalking again? Do you think he's going to change back soon? In your history with these things, go ahead and tell me what you think? What is this stage? Do you think he was acting this way to feel better about himself?? I'm confused!!!

Don't worry. I'm going to continue working on myself. I'm happy about not worrying about whether he's coming home on the weekend. I'm changing to a feminine bedspread. I'm going to buy some new workout clothes.

Mel:
I do need SF. That's going to be a big problem for me. There was lots of sexual vibes in the room while we talked. Neither one of us of course acted on it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi,
I am neither encouraged or discouraged. This is just one step along the way. He could flip tomorrow because he is still in the throes of an addiction. Just look how many times he has flipped in the past. I just think this is all part of Plan A and he will waffle around for awhile until you eventually start Plan B and slam the lesson home.

I think one of the WORST things you can do is to have sex with him now. That will only encourage him to leave things the way they ARE and you don't want that. He won't miss what can easily have, nor will he have motivation to change the current situation.

I certainly do not feel that there has been a victory. I just think that this separation has made things better.

I just wanted to hear more positive comments from you guys. I don't know why. I needed that in order not to feel discouraged. To be honest, I now feel like maybe I was fooling myself. However, he seemed so sincere with me, more than he has been with me in months or even a year. I mean, he seemed to be sharing his feelings.

RED HAT:
I did tell him that the separation has caused me to feel less in love with him; I'm not sure of my exact words. In essence, I was letting him know that separation is NOT making my heart grow fonder. He did give me a date of mid-March; I'm not sure of the significance of that, probably when his free lease runs out.

I'm not feeling good about the idea of a PLAN B. I know you guys feel that it works. Bear with my fear about no contact. I just CRAVE seeing him and being with him so much especially now when he seems so much like himself. Remember how dependent I still am. You have to understand that I have been with him for 30 years. This is a major adjustment for me. I'm proud of how well I'm doing so far actually. Steve has never mentioned a need for PLAN B. When I ask him about it, he does not discuss it with me. I think Steve does not want me to get hopeless and give up; he actually told me that. I feel like I will if I don't find something positive in my interactions with my WS.

Mel:
I'm not planning to have sex with him again. I'm planning on waiting until he has NC with OW. Now, I can't absolutely promise!!! I am still very much a woman with needs. Plus, I have this fantasy of him being overcome by my presence; it used to be that way and it is a pleasant memory.

Believe me, though, I know he can switch on me. I'm just playing this psychological game with myself to keep me motivated.

In essence, am I not in a "kind of Plan B" since my WS has imposed NC with me. I don't plan to contact again until I have the separation agreement drawn up for him to sign. The only difference is that I have not written the letter and asked for NC myself, right??

Mimi, I feel good vibes about your meeting with H. March certainly isn't too far away either. So hang on. You are doing a great job and I want you to pat yourself on the back.
You can surely, after all this time, make the right moves until March and see if H is sincere this time.
Perhaps his fog has lifted a bit and he's finally seeing what a dumb thing he's been doing.
I hope his new business goes well and you two travel the world together. Happy and secure again.
Think Positive! what have you got to lose now that you've got the protection going with the agreement.
And I don't think you can take his name off the bank Acct. I think you have to open new one with only you on it.
But you might put him as a "in trust for" just in case of anything happening. That way funds are protected and safe for son should you get ill or anything?
You still have full control and he can't touch the acct unless he takes in a death certificate. Sorry, but I think ahead too.
Been through all this banking business myself. LOL With arguments and changing back accts. etc. in past. And having to set them up with our kids on Trust for the events possible.
Enjoy yourself now.
God bless, LouLou

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>In essence, am I not in a "kind of Plan B" since my WS has imposed NC with me. I don't plan to contact again until I have the separation agreement drawn up for him to sign. The only difference is that I have not written the letter and asked for NC myself, right??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually I am not hinting you about plan B but when WS doesn't turn around the first time more than often you have to to plan B unless OW LB'ed big time. I am more afraid to you to give him a blank check. You did a good job.

Listen, plan A you butt off. How ? ... be a Venusian Lady. You know; when my first date leave something (keys or purse) behind that make me call her the next day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . That kind of thing to make H to break his NC. Don't argue with him about NC but make him break it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Either you are in plan A or in plan B there is no in between. Remember you always could ask him to help around the house .. even to fix the front porch light !. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-rh-

It sounds to me like the meeting went very well. Of course, he needs to actually SIGN the paper to back up those promises. Try to get those papers ready as soon as possible.

He can quickly go back into the fog as soon as he sees OW. You know how quickly his attitude can change. At this point, he has a vested interest in keeping you "hooked" so he has the option to move back in with you again.

Reality is hitting though- he's noticing that a condo is not as comfy as a house. It feels alien. He is also probably realizing deep down that OW may not stick by him for the long term. GOOD. Hell, what kind of a woman is this- doesn't even have custody of her own child. Doesn't say much for her ability to make commitments to important people. Why doesn't she have custody of her own child?

But there is a long road to follow yet. Your WH is still on the fence. He could move home right now and cut this thing off- but he chooses not to. Still it's best for you to do as you have been doing- don't push him, let him miss you, let the A burn out. YOu want him to come back 100%.

Mimi, right now is time to work on the dependant you. This is important since not one of us can predict the future. Any of us could lose our spouse at any time due to accidents or illness. And we would have to stand on our own two feet. This is a good time to explore yourself, to expand yourself. Meet some new people, make some new friends- get involved in some community projects. Also, I advise you right now to make some plans for Valentine's Day- with family or a girlfriend if possible so you will not be sitting home alone wishing WS would call.

Don't have sex with him, he doesn't deserve it. IMHO, he shouldn't get that until he has moved back into the family home.

Espoir and others:

What do you make of this?

WS wanted to talk to me again today. He said I want you to know that "I am coming back home if you will let me". He continues to look depressed, tearful. However, I am positive that the OW stayed at the condo and probably still is there.

I said, having read Espoir's post earlier, "You can come back now if you want to and save the cost of the separation agreement,etc." He said "I want to come back on my own terms" and "I feel like since I have gone ahead and done this I need to play it out". It was something to this effect. He seemed to be saying I want to go ahead and have my freedom and fun for awhile, like a vacation. He further said " I want to come back when I feel like I want to be with you". He was referring back to my comment, and he said he was, stating that I only wanted him if he really wanted me.

He wanted to make the point to me that he is going to a motivational workshop at our coliseum from 7 to 11PM tonight, trying to indicate that he will not be with her.

Is he wanting to put the thrill back into his A by having to sneak around to see her? It does seem like some of the thrill of the A is gone.

At least I feel that I have gained some respect from him. However, I don't understand where he is coming from. It's like he wants to continue the cakewalk. You guys are right. I might need to do a Plan B. He is starting to piss me off. I continued in the PLAN A and did not LB. He wants to arrange putting in the alarm system. I was going to do it myself but he seems to want to feel needed and wanted by me so I put in those ADMIRATION love units.

What do you guys think??

<strong>"I am coming back home if you will let me".</strong> Good response to him Mimi- actions speak louder than words. And he is not delivering the actions. You called him on it.

<strong>"I want to come back on my own terms" </strong>
I don't want to have to "pay" for what I've done- go through counseling etc. or analyze myself and think about my deeds.

<strong> "I feel like since I have gone ahead and done this I need to play it out". </strong>

Typical fog thinking. So selfish. The lack of concern for others- not only you who certainly doesn't deserve this but, dare I say it, even OW (please don't shoot me) whose hopes he's encouraging. If he thinks he's coming back, why use this girl for temporary gratification. What he's doing is extremely destructive- continuing just compounds the damage.

But now Mimi, you have to work on that independant you. WH will not be motivated to change his ways as long as he figures you are home knitting. I do think that the end of March will force a decision. Keep moving on the sep. agreement, and you should probably set up some visitation for son as well. (Not with you present and not at your house.)

Plan A when you see him. I do think you might give him an affair book- I suggested this to Jack55 as well. After the Affair by Janis Abrams Springs might be a good one. I WOULDN'T give him Surviving An Affair. I think Plan A and B can sound manipulative- don't let him into that. Torn Asunder might be good. Just tell him that it's a book that has helped you understand the dynamics of affairs, what happens and how marriages can heal. Hand it to him and then don't bring it up again unless he mentions it.

And now put WH aside. Have a few days apart from him. You don't really need to see him again until sep. agreement is ready. Don't contact him.

Tell us what plans you are going to make for Valentine's Day so you are not sitting home alone feeling sad.

FOGHORN!!! He is talking smack. If he comes back now, you are right, he will just be reaping the benefits of having 2 women meeting his needs. He is starting to miss you but is in no way ready to give up anything. I sure wouldn't let him come back as long as he is still seeing the OW and acting in destructive manners. As HArley states, that is one of the WORST things you can do, ie: let them come back too soon.

You are doing good and he is starting to wake up. BUT, it is just that, a start.

Mimi ...

try not to read too much into his actions. WS is not that smart when they are taken. (borrowing WAT's term). For sure he start to reap what he sow ... and like old saying ... be carefull what you wish for you might get it and you might not like it after all. So keep your plan A and start getting busy with new activities to get your mind out of this. I know it is hard but this is the only way you could outlast the A.

-rh-

I told him he can't come back without a NC letter. He might not believe me.

Why is he now so willing to talk about the A whereas when he was at home he did not want to talk about it? Does he now want to cakewalk while he's in his condo?

Why doesn't he leave me alone and just stay involved in his life with her? Trying to make sure I don't start a life of my own???? Why is he doing this if he thinks he wants to be with her? Why is he looking so depressed and weepy if she is able to cure his depression?

<small>[ February 08, 2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I've been reading your suggestions about going ahead with my life and being independent. I just want to let you guys know how hard it is. My WS is probably going through this too. He just left for good on Monday. It's a huge adjustment to not be with somebody you've been with for so long. It's a grieving process. It's like he's dead. It's just like you don't tell a widow just go on with your life after her H has been dead a few days. I know my H isn't dead and I can see him but the feeling at home is the same. I go and smell his clothes. My bed seems so huge. One side of a two person set-up in our bathroom is empty. There are certain groceries I don't need to buy! The list goes on. I will adjust but it is so early yet. Like I said before I CRAVE HIM!! although he keeps treating me so badly. I guess he was like a mood enhancer for me.

I feel good about focusing on doing some decorating around the house. I went out and bought a new comforter set and I'm thinking about setting up a craft room. I just don't feel like talking to my friends right now. They are all so angry at my WS and want to start talking about divorce and don't want to see my part in creating the climate for the A.

I appreciate having you guys to share this experience with. Thanks.

Hey Mimi,

We all know its not easy to just "go on" with your life. Really. My DH of 20 years left me too and has never come back. I am here to tell you it was just as painful as when my 18 year son was killed 6 months later. I had never been alone in my life. I had never suffered such emotional pain in my life. But what I had to do was to start focusing on myself and getting used to being alone. The alternative is to just lay down and die with a big hole in you. You have to work on filling the hole.

Granted, I filled the hole the WRONG way. I started dating immediately and married him as soon as my divorce was final. The thing that helped me cope with the loss of my H and son the most, besides the distraction of a new boyfriend, was exercise. Exercise was the only time I could really lose myself and not think about my pain. It was sooo soothing to work out in my living room every night.

Mel:

I haven't found the key yet. I can't figure out what's going to distract my mind. I can't bear the thought of thinking that he's not coming back. He's giving me the strong impression that he is. Why is he doing that to me? I would rather for him to stop bothering me. I can't stop checking her house. She's not with him tonight for some reason.

I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your son. My loss could never compare to that.

You know what? I am really at risk for doing like you did and dating again. I've been trying to hold myself back from calling a friend of my husband's whom I have found to be comforting. His wife died about a year ago and we have a lot in common. I'm feeling a strong need for male companionship. Don't worry, I'm not going to call him! He's also been telling me that I have to take care of myself. I can't figure out how to do it if my WS keeps jumping in and out of my life.

Do you have any answers to those questions that I asked in my 5:05 PM post? Those are haunting me.

Thanks for being there.

<small>[ February 08, 2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>

Why doesn't he leave me alone and just stay involved in his life with her? Trying to make sure I don't start a life of my own???? Why is he doing this if he thinks he wants to be with her? Why is he looking so depressed and weepy if she is able to cure his depression?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think reality is starting to set in and he is getting freaked. He knows she can't meet all of his needs and needs you to meet others. Often, this is when the WS does try to have their cake and eat it too. But, it is impossible to know what is going through their minds because they change with the wind.

But listen, your loss DOES COMPARE to mine. That was my point, Mimi. The departure of my H was as painful, if not more, as the death of my son. I only said that because I wanted to convey to you that the loss of a spouse is just as devastating as the death of a child and you are supposed to be devastated right now. I wasn't trying to minimize your pain, but validate it.

Mel:

I think I'm falling in love with you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you so much for being there. You seem to really understand.

Melodylane, please accept my condolences on your loss of son. I didn't know, and though it may have been some time ago, you'll always carry that pain. I can't even imagine losing one of my children.
And yes, I hurt badly over FWH, but anyone can have him over one of my children!
You most definitely are a very strong lady. I admire your strength in being able to find a way to go on and put some of the pain behind you.
Mimi, I think you're doing great. As for that friend of yours, why not date? Or at least have a night out occasionally with a friend for talking and just finding a little outlet for the burdens.
If your WH is still going through with this Condo, I'm wondering if he's actually buying it for OW!
He, at this time, has made it clear he doesn't want to be home now, and coming home under his terms? What are those terms? Maybe they are that he can have both women? NOT and stay around me he wouldn't.
As far as I can see, he has broken his marriage, and is not willing at this time to do NC with OW.
I'd consider myself free to date and start a life without him. Let him chew on that one awhile. And I'd be very open about it too. Telling him since he's not there, and doesn't want to be obviously,that I'm entitled to a life and realize I may have to start over again without him.
This does not mean you have to enter into an A! You might wind up in an EA one. But at this juncture? I think it is good to let them know we're not sitting on the fence waiting while they make up their mind. There is more in life and someone for everyone out there.
I did this with my H first A. And he put the brakes on immediately. He was on his way to see her where she worked, and stopped my car, saw me dressed for date and begged me to come home with him. I did, and he quit his visits to her workplace. The PA was over for them, but still and EA I think.
When he found out I was not going to wait for him, he did a 180.
I think your H is taking you for granted because you are waiting on him.
Sometimes the wake up comes when they see they may lose the wife.
The risk is there and he knows it if you find someone also.
Seems the WS have their friends of opposite sex, so why not?
I know some will say this is bad advice. But It sure ended my H's A. And the one he had 23 yrs later ended as soon as he knew I knew. Because he knows I will not wait for him.
He was so scared he wouldn't even talk to me when I found them, He ran and hid having her lie for him.
And yes, I also did a few nights away with him wondering what or who I was seeing.
Actually, I had gone to a casino and stayed the night.LOL Having a ball.
All by myself!
Keep it up Mimi, and keep him on your terms because he should be through calling the shots if he's willing to save his marriage.
He has no rights to call the terms now!
LouLou

LadyLou,

I know that dating seems like a good idea at first glance, but there are HUGE PROBLEMS with it. First off, she is still married so there is the moral problem. Secondly, it pretty much destroys any chance of a reconciliation.

Thirdly, she is SO EMOTIONALLY vulnerable right now that she is a walking time bomb. She would be at the complete mercy of anyone who came along and showed her the least amount of attention. She is not a whole person, but a devastated person who is traumatized.

When I started dating my current DH only 3 weeks after my H left, I fell head over heels in love inside of a month. I was so needy that I would have fallen in love with ANYONE if he had given me the slightest amount of attention. My new relationship all but ensured that my H would not come back.

P.S. thanks so much for the condolences. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 08, 2003, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>