|
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,194
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,194 |
This was interesting, so I thought I'd pass it along....
The Cheating Heart Tuesday, February 04, 2003 By Wendy McElroy
Adultery is in the news again due to the murder-by-Mercedes trial of Clara Harris, who allegedly ran over her adulterous husband three times after discovering him with another woman.
What is adultery? How many of us "cheat," why is it wrong, and what should be done about it?
These questions can be lost in the blaze of emotions surrounding discussion of adultery. Even staunch advocates of traditional values -- such as "Thou shalt not kill" -- seem to lose their compass. For example, WorldNetDaily's staunchly Christian Joseph Farah writes of Harris: "Free her and let her be an example to every cheating husband and wife in America. There is a price to pay. Sometimes it's the ultimate price."
For most people, the death penalty for adultery sounds too much like Arabic laws that call for stoning scarlet women.
If only because of its impact on families, the issue of adultery is too important to obscure with gut reactions.
What is adultery? Former President Bill Clinton didn't help the definition by convincing the gullible Monica Lewinsky that oral sex wasn't really adultery. Consider another definition. Adultery is consensual sex between a married person and partner other than his or her spouse. It carries an implication of dishonesty because, if the spouse knows, then the correct term to apply is probably "open marriage."
How prevalent is adultery? Who knows? Hard statistics on marriage and divorce are easy to come by because people have to file papers, but no one has to register an affair. Even scientifically conducted studies are speculative because they depend upon subjects being honest about incredibly personal and explosive areas of their lives.
Some reliable studies say that a minority of people "cheat." For example, the Janus Report on Sexual Behavior (1993) found that, "More than one-third of men and one-quarter of women admit having had at least one extramarital sexual experience."
In a sense, it doesn't matter if such estimates are accurate or wildly conservative. Most people have lied or stolen something in their lifetimes. That doesn't make deceit and theft laudable or their lifestyle. All it says is that human beings are fallible and likely to make a few bad mistakes.
Which leads to "What is wrong about adultery?" If everyone involved agrees, including spouses, then affairs may or may not violate morality, but there is no betrayal and, perhaps, no harm.
That scenario doesn't describe most affairs.
Typically, marriage is based on an explicit understanding of monogamy: This means that the deceived spouse is lied to and betrayed.
Such an affair is not merely immoral, it is an act of fraud and a breach of contract. The defrauded spouse acts in the belief that the marriage contract is being honored. He or she makes life-defining decisions and incurs obligations based on the contract: having children, buying a home, taking a particular job, sharing income, making mutual investments. The adulterous spouse reaps the benefits of the marriage contract while violating its terms.
What should be done about adultery?
Legally speaking, it should not merely be grounds for divorce, as it often is now, but also a determining factor in the divorce settlement. Anyone who breaches a contract should pay a penalty.
On a personal level ... don't do it.
If you do commit adultery, then have the courage to be honest about it. Take responsibility and don't hide behind excuses like "it just happened." Ending up naked in a motel room with someone isn't an act cloaked in mystery. Nor does lying about adultery "just happen." These are conscious choices that result from a string of other decisions leading up to the affair, such as flirting, exchanging phone calls and having clandestine meetings. If you don't want sex to "just happen," then don't lay the necessary groundwork.
If a friend is having an affair, try to reason him or her into either breaking it off or coming clean at home. At the very least, express disapproval.
If you find out that a friend of yours is the betrayed party, then tell him or her about the affair, but only after giving the cheating spouse a fair chance to do so first. Don't give your moral sanction and co-operation to an act of fraud by keeping quiet. You wouldn't silently watch as a friend stole money or was stolen from. Don't tolerate the equally vicious dishonesty of adultery.
One of the reasons our society winks at adultery is because we romanticize it as forbidden fruit. Novels such as The Bridges of Madison County throw an idealistic glow around infidelity. Fair-weather friends eagerly ask for "details." Magazines blame the betrayed spouse for not keeping the "spark" alive. But there is nothing romantic about lying, sneaking and betraying trust. There is nothing ideal about destroying families with children.
We should stop winking and look adultery straight in the eye. In doing so, it will be revealed as an ugly phenomenon that good marriages need not fear.
Marriages are not determined by statistics or the surveys found in women's glossy magazines, all of which seem to be entitled "How to Know If He's Wandering." Shut the magazine. You and your spouse are in control, not Cosmopolitan. You are the adults in the family ... the ones upon which your children depend.
Wendy McElroy is the editor of ifeminists.com and a research fellow for The Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, Liberty for Women: Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002). She lives with her husband in Canada.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
VERY GOOD
LurkingAbout .... this explains the situation ....
breach of contract~~~~~~ exactly!
It's not about "ownership" and enslavement, it's about honoring your word and keeping your promises.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504 |
I was listening to the christian program driving home this morning. They talked about homosexual and adultery. We have the big homosexual stand at the capital. There is the ? if this is okay with God or not. No one says for sure one way or the other. Therefore, it is not labeled as a sin as yet. It could be that the person was born that way, another statement that is being stated. So there are demonstrations, and talk shows, and controversy about the homosexual life. People comiong out in the public and admitting to this behavior problem, that they have.
What about betrayal? Keeping committment, keeping vows, keeping one spouse for life, keeping your judgement with your spouse. If this were NOT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> a sin, then should we get all the adulterers in a demonstration, and say it is okay? Just like homosexuals, stating they are born this way? Should we tell little 5 year old boys and girls, your daddy committed adultery, so you were born with adultery, therefore you chances of becoming an adulterous adult are greater because of your daddy. Should we get all the people who committed adultery, put T-shirts on them that states how many affairs they have? Should we if this is not a sin, say you can have 2 or 3 or 4 spouses if you want. One has to be a legal spouse, but the rest can be there for fun and lust.
Any 2 people who are naked in front of each other, in a descreet place, knowing that they are not with their spouse - are LUSTING for the other person. Therefore, we know, God knows that these people have sinned, and the betrayers know they have sinned. Therefore, there is no question to consider, and it has been made clear by the bible, that adultery is a sin, therefore there are no demonstrations, no questions. Like what Past <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> President Clinton, stating that he had inappropriate behavior with Monica - bull!!! We weren't born yesterday, and he was found guilty as labeled. And he has to carry this with him the rest of his deceitful years. I never liked this man. Even when there was tragedy in this nation, his voice didn't seem to show compassion. It was fake, and a bunch of lieing words, to satisfy the public.
Betrayal by the adulterous spouse is a sin and God sees and knows. Would be nice if these people were punished for the rest of their lives. And it may come to that. The laws will be changing shortly in the coming years to favor the betrayed spouse. There will be no demonstrations, they are sinners and have hurt their family, and extended families. The kids are hurting, and this is their fault, the the betrayed spouse. The betrayed spouse didn't go to a hotel with another person, that is not his/her spouse, and unclothe and become naked, and look at each others bodies, and genitals and sweat and kiss and all that stuff.
Inappropriate behavior, once again was stated as a copout. A copout because they are ashamed of stating yes that they had sex with another person.
More and more, we are finding more articles about adultery and the pain of the family and kids.
Just what I heard on the chrisitan program.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 296
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 296 |
I absolutely agree with the breach of contract component of affair behaviour. I also agree that it is not the affair per se (as she implied) but the decieit, dishonesty, etc. that accompany this behaviour which is what is damageing to all involved. I disagree about destroying children, children are screwed up in a myriad of ways, often in "intact" marriages. Children are screwed up by ineffective parenting, societal (the village thing) values, and surprisingly (more than 50% factor) their genes. So yeah, affairs stress this, but so do many other things, lets address them all, nothing special about affairs in that regard. In any event, the problem is not affairs, affairs are emergent behaviour of our species, and absolutely necessary (or they wouldn't happen). The real problem is the poor job we do in getting married in the first place, as well as having little or no training in how to evaluate and conduct such an intense intimate relationship. I suspect we could slash the divorce (and affair) rates subsatantially if we made getting married much much harder to do....not the least of which would be substantial waiting periods before granting a marriage license.
btw pepper, any contract can be abrogated, unpon payment of appropriate compensation. I agree that affairs should carry additional compensation whether the marriage dissolves or not, depending on the particulars. Keep in mind we also have laws agaist personal ownership contracts (indentured servitude), so marriage can never be a contract about owning someone forever. Which means it always remains a choice, everyday, and ends when one can no longer (radical honesty) say they want to remain in an intimate relationship with this person. Hurtful...yes, but such is the nature of human relationships, if radical honesty means anything at all. If emotions mean anything at all. If equally yoked means anything at all. However, affairs are not the best way to end a marriage, that is for certain. <small>[ February 04, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420 |
Question for all especially BSs...
If an affair is a breach of the marriage contract, which it is, how can we get our legislators to listen to this? How can we get our judicial system to treat adultery as such when it comes time for the settlement?
If you don't know my story, basically where I am is that my W filed for divorce and wants me to support her, wants our house, wants me to continue paying for the house, wants sole custody and control of our son and restraining orders against me for her and my son. The hearing is next week but I've been given this a lot of thought. I know the courts usually side with the women on these cases, but what rights does she have to the benefits of the marriage after doing everything she has done?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,454
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,454 |
Hate to be cyncial...
But look at the lives and actions of our legislators...
Why on earth would they do something silly to harm themselves by making adulterers legally accountable?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420 |
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BrambleRose: <strong>Hate to be cyncial...
But look at the lives and actions of our legislators...
Why on earth would they do something silly to harm themselves by making adulterers legally accountable?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely, utterly true! What was I thinking? How about reinstating the alienation of affection lawsuit against OP?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504 |
why would legislation do anything, when our President Clinton didn't think having an affair was having an affair? Look how he weasled himself out of saying he was having sex, but was having inappropriate behavior. My heart just crys when I hear this idiot of a president say these words of betrayal. This was a cop-out and like my husband, these words hurt.
I am hoping that one day we get a christian in the high ranks, and sees what is happening in our society. No vows, no morals, no committment, nothing. This is a sad world, and this is going to get worse until someone takes a hold of this society.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420 |
Faith, I agree with you, but what I am saying and proposing is that why can't we start taking hold of this society? We know the pain all too well, we know the utter damage to everyone around us. Can we do something about it? What can we do? Electing officials with high moral standards is one way for sure, but is there anything else can do through legislation?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504 |
As betrayed spouses, maybe there is something that can be done. What about petitioning to our governors first, on anyone who commits adultery is to pay the betrayed back with money, time going to counseling or something. I don't think clearly, and yes I am not going crazy.
How about starting a thread utterly confused on this. Maybe we have something here going, that can be of some good use to this rotten society we have. Maybe this could be something that is used in counseling. Maybe this could be something that is used in the jduges hands.
There has to be something that would be beneficial to help society recognize the overpower of adultery in this country. And to help those comtemplating adultery, to look at what they are doing to their family and friends.
Start a new thread, and maybe something can be done. I know of a lawyer on another thread. Maybe I could ask him, or if we get something to present, maybe I could ask him. I am encouraged to read that others feel the same way. I feel dumped, betrayed, and my hsuband is still uncaaring about me. Why do we feel this way, why don't we stand over their heads, and stomp on their head instead of what is happening.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 420 |
I will start a new thread, but I don't have much time tonight, I will do it tomorrow. It is an idea I've been mulling over for a few days.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,504 |
Good looking forward to the sight. Maybe we can get some ideas to hook these rotten wayward spouses. I am in a foul mood.! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 920
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 920 |
By LurkingAbout! (affairs are emergent behaviour of our species, and absolutely necessary (or they wouldn't happen). Absolutely necessary? I think not. I disagree with this totally. There is no temptation which God has not given you an escape route! And strength to overcome if one wants it. It's called will power and spiritual awareness. We all have murder in our hearts too. Every single sin is in a person. But do we all murder as a necessary behavior? NO. As for sin of adultery, you can't separate EA's and PA's either. If you think it in your heart, or lust in the heart,it's adultery. Either way! That is why one must keep their minds in control, and turn from the first sinful thought. Run more like it. We can control our minds with will power and moral values in tact. I remember John Gray saying when one starts to lust after another, or have feelings, they should replace that OP's image with the image of their S in mind. Keep turning those feelings to the S. and eventually it will start to work for you. IT takes a lot of practice and will power. And is a choice one can make. Faith4me, utterlyconfused, good idea. How about a petition and all sign to send to representatives, and make sure it goes not only to WA. but to our state representatives too. We need this to be state law as well as Fed. I'll sign! You have no idea what can be accomplished until you try. I am for trying to pass a law making adultery a crime and punishable by law. Count me in. LouLou
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 296
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 296 |
it is not a debate ladylou, just a fact, your argument is not with me, it is with the anthropologists, and psychologists who understand how our species functions. If we did not have affair behaviour we would not be human beings, and we would most likely be extinct. While we all (including me) like to pretend we can just arbitrarily "decide" how human beings should be, fact is, we have no such power. Affairs are fundamentally a reproductive strategy, ALL sexual strageties, in ALL the myriad of species on this planet are OPTIMIZED for species survival. Our species has affair behaviour because we are suppose to, we would not exist if we did not.
However, I am fully in agreement with the philosophy that in general, participating in an affair is not a good idea...but that is an entirely seperate issue. As human beings, we ALL are programmed for reproductive strategies that have no monogamous component. The only reason anyone does not have an affair, is because they "choose" not too, and that is because they have assessed what they gain would not be worth the cost, in other words a selfish decision (as are all relationship choices). Most times divorce is the path one should take if the marriage is not functional enough to preclude affair behaviour. But that takes training to understand, and usally it is life that provides the training, in the form of an ea, which often comes as a complete surprise to someone who was only hanging on to a marriage out of duty (or religious rationales).
btw, yes we are all capable of, and will murder, if circumstances warrant....it is called survival, anyone who does not have the genetic capacity to murder left the genepool eons ago. <small>[ February 05, 2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
crap crap crap
and more crap
stop this!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
Lurking !
I think you need to report my last post!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,421
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,421 |
Pepper:
Boy, your last post got my attention, and so I read what you are referring to.
I would LOVE to have MY post reported. Because I won't use the word 'crap', when bull$h!+ is so much more expressive!
My WW has a degree in anthropology. Their department must believe in this nonsense, because I know of at least 3 professors and 2 grad students (my W and RM) that were having As while my W was there. I've known these people for many years now. I would describe them, and particularly their BSs, as miserable people, for the most part. I've referred to it as "the Department of Adultery" more than once, and at least one of those times to my W. She actually told me of an employee of hers who chose NOT to have an A with a classmate that was "interested" in him, when he was only involved with a GF back home, not M'd. The classmate was devastated that he didn't want her. I would like to meet him and shake his hand.
This kind of thinking is dangerous to the species. It doesn't describe our "natural tendencies" at all. It provides cheaters with excuses to enable bad behavior.
Religious people are rightfully appalled by such so-called scientific conclusions, because religions teach us that we can be "better than the animals" because we have free will.
I'm an atheist, and a scientist. I'm appalled because this kind of conclusion is not scientific, it's a biased justification of the bad behavior those making those kinds of statements want to engage in. I believe we ARE animals. Humans are higher primates. But there's a big difference between humans and other animals. We, so far as we can tell, are the only species on this planet that have evolved our intelligence to the level we have, and that intelligence enables us to look upon our behavior in this life from many different perspectives. We're not just aware of our own mortality, we have the ability to empathize with our fellow humans. And with an ability like that, it's disgusting to think that someone would come out from an apparent position of authority and say something stupid like affairs are necessary, or natural.
Again, BULL$H!+ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> -Qfwfq
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
"apparent position of authority" .... non-existant for this particular individual .... no authentic authority
Q .... can you tall I'm PISSED? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140 |
Yes, LurkingAbout, it's true that all of us are hardwired with animal instincts. But we are not mere animals; unlike them, we are also human, and are expected to use human intelligence and human reasoning in dealing with our fellow humans -- especially those we claim to love.
Affairs happen when people choose to follow their animal instincts (go out and collect as many mates as possible!) instead of their human intelligence (build a unique emotional bond with just one person.)
You can let yourself behave like an animal in your personal relationships -- plenty of people do -- or you can choose to be human and create a bond with another human that no animal could ever dream of. It's your choice.
Psycho_B***h
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,421
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,421 |
Pepper:
I was being as polite as I could be with the "apparent position of authority" remark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Yes, I can tell your gain knob got irrevocably tweaked! So did mine!
Because I've heard MUCH of what LA/SNL posted from my W over the past year. She must have had to build this defense of her behavior from somewhere, and what better place than this source of "authority"?
There are times when I'm ashamed that "anthropology" is considered a science, when people studying human behaviors seem to dream up these things to justify their own inability to "evolve". (but I have great respect for anthropological sciences - don't get me wrong).
Because this is so close to home for me, having a WW that's still very confused after more than a year since D-day referring to this "scientific" nonsense which slows our progress, when she was, and can be such a wonderful, caring, loving, intelligent woman that's a delight to share my life with. I am extremely angry about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
-Qfwfq <small>[ February 05, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>
|
|
|
0 members (),
659
guests, and
104
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,524
Members72,035
|
Most Online6,102 Jul 3rd, 2025
|
|
|
|