Dear Deluded -

I've only got a couple of minutes while H is out of the house. I still say the signals your H is giving you indicate that he doesn't see this marriage as being over. Have you thought long and hard about what you are going to talk about tonight at dinner? Remember that you can't MAKE him come out of the fog. He has to come out himself. It's possible that he is already part way out of the fog, but is feeling hopeless himself about the marriage. So you have to try to give him some reason to hope that the marriage can work.

I have read some of the Mars/Venus books by John Gray and one thing stuck in my mind that I think is very relevant for us (my M). My H yelled at me once that I was the most miserable woman he had ever met - boy did that hurt! And I took it on board - yes, I WAS stressed out by being a SAHM, and by the problems I have always had with him (which still need looking at) - but the plain fact about men is, that I didn't understand, is that a man takes on board your unhappiness as HIS FAILURE. If he loves you, he wants to make you happy, and if he comes home every day and finds you stressed out by the kids and shouting, HE feels like a failure. I never realised this, and just felt angry at him when he let me down by not giving me the quality time I needed away from the kids in order to be happy and relaxed again.

After I read these books and I twigged at how much compliments and admiration meant to a man, I started looking for the good things in my H. This was the only way I was able to go on living with my H after I had asked him to leave and he had negotiated staying. I was furious with him and couldn't stand him. But I told myself I would look for one good thing in him that I actually liked and could admire every day, and I would SAY SO. I did this and this is what helped build a relationship back between us more than anything else. It not only helped him, but also me, because I could see there was still much to admire about this man who had let me down so bad. But it was a conscious decision of the WILL - I did it even though I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT.

I would suggest that in your dinner tonight, you try to honestly take responsibility once again (I know you have already said so, and written letters - so had I, but when they are in the fog, they don't hear you, so you have to keep saying it), and then tell him why you think your marriage can still work - what it is about him (specifically) that you have always admired and still love, and then say that you owe it to your kids not to separate without giving marriage counselling a chance. Do NOT mention the other woman and do not demand anything from him right now. Just stress the good things about your M - don't even say you want it back - just say that this has always been good about your M, and you know this is one of the bad times between married people but you are confident that you both can get through it if you persevere together.

I know you feel you have lost your faith, but I know that Christ is with you now, even though you don't feel like it. Bad things do happen to good people and no-one knows why, but it is you who is being tested right now by evil, not only your husband. You can't live your husband's life for him, but you CAN and should choose what kind of person you want to be.

Anger has been my worst sin (if you want to look at it that way) and its right up there with lust in the 7 Deadlys so I have taken the view that I am no better than my H - he succumbs to temptation, but the temptation to explode in anger is just as strong and just as destructive. Anger can be appropriate - look at Jesus in the Temple - but its how you express it that counts.

You sound better today. I hope this evening goes well. You can but try. Your H calling you and telling you what he had for lunch is a good sign - he is trying to keep contact with you. You said the little things don't matter any more, but they do, they do.

LIR

His anger is a direct result of the (self-inflicted) pressure he is under. He knows a binary decision awaits him down the road, and he is scared, he will feel sad one way or another, so why not vent some anger on you.
You say you are catholic, your husband too? Maybe some church related councelling might help. Another idea would be for you to go to an MC, dress it up as IC, and ask him to come along for a session to help *you*. Maybe under that guise he will come and slowly being drawn into.

Here's an update on my situation,looking fairly grim I am afraid.

H and I had a pleasant meal out on Wed last. I was careful to avoid all mention of the OW and had decided not to make it a R talk. However at one point H mentioned a meeting he goes to next month and I asked if OW would be there. He said NO, and then said-rather nervously actually-that he had had an email from her sometime that week and she had asked him his view of whether she should accept a new job working for a different company that would take her out of his sphere altogether. I asked him if he replied and he said he had done so , a short email along the lines of "do whatever you like". I reminded him that I had asked him-and he had agreed-to tell me if she contacted him and his answer was of course" I've just told you". Later though he said that she also had the option to buy out her former boyfriend's business.
The evening went amicably after that.

The next morning I drove to see a psychiatrist/psychotherapist for an assessment and he has now referred me to a psychotherapist closer to home. We start sessions next week. I found it draining but hopeful. I realised that now was a good time to start working on me, and address why I feel I am not happy, not fulfilled etc. After I spent a long time thinking and the thought that, my mother-bless her-was such a strong influence on me that I think she probably held me back, kept recurring. And I found myself wondering if H holds me back too, maybe, now Mum has died I can move forward but maybe I need to break free of H also? And can I do that in such a way as to move away from the negative influence but retain our equal relationship? When we met we were equals, professionally. I define myself by my work primarily,as does he-professional success is important to us both and he is achieving it, I feel I am not. Or is the answer in breaking away completely-that is, divorcing? So that our lives become separate identities, which touch only where the children are concerned?

Serious stuff this, and I am a little shocked that I am thinking this but quite excited too about the prospect of developing my understanding of myself and where it will lead me.

I then had my session with SH on Friday. He was very helpful in validating some of my thoughts but I can't say that I gleaned any new pearls of wisdom. Don't forget I have been reading about this for 9 months. I'm no expert but I am now informed.

Fridaynight we had a takeaway and we watched a video-H chose Lord of the Rings which he had seen but I haven't. I still haven't seen it as I slept through about half of it!

Saturday we had our usual round of driving children around and H spent 2 hours in the gym. I can't go then because the creche is closed.I decided to cook a nice meal for H-and I did-3 courses, a nice bottle of wine, did as much of the washing up as I could,served it at a reasonable time. We made love .

Then today,what hapened? All I know is we have fought all day and I can't speak to him without LBing. It started when I looked at a photograph in the newspaper of a model, rather a chunky one thought and said so. H responded that he thought she looked nice, that was how a woman should be(I am slim now though lost a stone -post baby weight that stuck-since D day 1). She had chunky thighs too and H said he thought they were just right! Well I chewed it over for a few minutes and finally it erupted....told him he said it to hurt me,to undermine my confidence, that he always does it , blah blah blah. And so it has been all day. I tried to talk calmly with him-he responds by rolling his eyes and watching the TV. So I walked away got dressed and came back down, and he accuses me of not talking to him-am I COMPLETELY STUPID?????? He accuses me of walking away, putting makeup on(is that a crime now?) and texting lots of people-I hadn't, only turned my phone on and received one.
And so it goes on. He accuses me of being aggressive and putting the "shutters down" after one " innocent comment" I try and tell him he doesn't listen to me, never says sorry, etc etcetc.

I drove to collect our daughter and arrived back home. H tries to distract me by telling me Australia beat England at cricket.Again. Then says is it ok if he goes to work to write his talk for a few hours. I'm afraid I am so angry I say he should do what he likes and to say hi to OW. He says he was not going to phone her unless I want him to? I say he never usually does what I want so why start now?

Earlier, before I drove to get our D, I told him we should talk separation. Then when I asked him later about it he said he had never considered what would happen if we divorced as he never thought I would reach that point! EXCUSE ME PLEASE!! you REALLY thought I would just keep on putting up with it????

He maintains he has not had any contact with OW since the last email but is vague about when it was-could be last week sometime. Could even have been in response to his NC email. That he allegedly sent.

I don't want him to leave as I know him and I believe he will not ever ask to come back,will lose me and our girls because of his own stupid pride. But today has been so bad-he seemed really bewildered after this am and said he'd been trying hard this week. Well if that's trying hard then forget it. Still refuses MC, or to read anything....

So if anyone can see a ray of light, let me know. I told him we should talk to our kids tonight,they should know what is going on before he leaves. He said we shouldn't tell them yet.

He said to me this morning" we are going no-where you and me". Does he really think one week of trying hard will do it?

I am angry today and he feels it. But I no longer feel that separation is something I could never do.I regret that it has come to this but he leaves me no option.
Yes I know I have LB'd myself into a frenzy today but I can see no way forward for us. We lurch from crisis to crisis.
The problem is, he lies such a lot about all this, my H, and I cannot trust him not to hurt me again.

This is a bit of a rant but as ever I appreciate anyone who reads and replies to my post.

Deluded

Hi Deluded,

I have quickly read most of your story, and I have to say: I do see some faint rays of light in your situation. In some ways, there are some similarities with mine.

Your H is still there, he does NOT want to tell the kids, and I bet is quite adamant about that...my H too, could not bear going that far..it's like it is all still a fantasy with no real consequences!

It sounds like you are having a tough time avoiding the LB's....can you do anything today, or soon to take care of yourself? see a friend, shop, get out without the kids??? do it! reach out for help, and try not to seek reassurance from the H....bcs he can't give it now!

I REALLY understand the desperate state you are in. You are feeling very very sad and angry and afraid, and you have small kids like me. It's really awful.

Try not to initiate any conversations about the OW. If he brings her up, look "understanding", even if you want to vomit (and don't say anything!)! Talk only about the life you WANT to have with your H, and think, every time you open your mouth: how will this improve things?

I personally think you have a lot of PLAN A left to do before moving on to B, but I do understand that your present state makes it hard to contemplate.

Is he seeing her now? What is the status of the NC deal with H?