Hi H_P

I don't know if I can give you much advice, but I wanted to let you know that I was thinking of you.

I think it is hard in our situation - we want to read something into every last little thing, when sometimes there is nothing there and we just have to take things at face value. Your H agreed to help you with your taxes - this is good, no more no less, but does it "mean" anything? I really don't know, but I do so understand how you would like it to "mean" something.

You are doing well, you are learning about you and I hope your H sees the positive changes that you have made, your sincerity to try and make things work again.

Wishing you well from London.

Lisa

Lisa,
You're right. It probably didn't mean much at all. It only means he's a nice person, and helpful--in the end.

I'm having a dreadful time lately. I truly thought my exH would love me again , maybe by this pont he would have. I never thought my life would be this way.

I should perhaps just let go completely, but I can't seem to stop the feelings of love I have for the man. Does anyone have any ideas?

Sorry this sounds jarbled. I am simply so, so tired of feeling so bad about this. I feel no one around me understands the depth of my inner pain, except my exH (and he 's in maybe more pain) --and he doesn't want to talk to me, it seems.

Thanks for listening,
HP

H_P,

I am so sorry you are in this state. I suspect your exH has moved on to another state, but I am sure he passed through here.

I know I am a broken record, and I realize this isn't feasible, but I keep thinking you need to call him and go see him and tell him to sit down and finally take charge of this.

It may make him feel vindicated that you feel as you do. It may make him realize you really do need him. It may begin the process of him healing. It may mean that when you are done telling how you feel and what you think, that you will be able to move on. But, just maybe there will be some movement.

He has said you could vent, I think you need to call him and tell him you really really need him to listen to you while you do vent. You will be more than happy to reciprocate and let him vent, but would he listen to you?

H_P, you need to take charge of things abit. I am talking from touching him, to talking to him, to speaking you mind. You need to do this for you and for him. I don't what you have actually said to him since the divorce or even when he left although you were way in the fog then, but it needs to be said now.

Have you ever thought of calling the Harley's and seeing what they have to say? It may be money well spent.

I just wish there was something I could offer that would make you feel better.

God Bless,

JL

hp-

I am really concerned about you.

After much contemplation, I figured that I would ask you a question that might be intrusive. I'm wondering whether or not you are using your job as a way of escaping your situation. I'm worried that you are wrapping your esteem so deeply in recovering what you lost that you are loosing something more important- yourself....

One thing I've definately taken from this whole nightmare is that I am me. If my X can't forgive, or even open his eyes to who I've evolved into, it really is a great loss. One that I can't change. Just as he couldn't change the path that I chose when I self destructed.

HP- YOU need to work on forgiving yourself. This needs to happen regardless of H's feelings. It hurts so bad to know that life has happened, and you are somewhere different than where you thought you'd be. I think that you are so BUSY running from things, and punishing yourself, that you aren't seeing where you are now.

Are you okay? How is your health these days? What have you done for YOU lately?

I love you and I hate to read your pain. I wish I could just hug you and let you cry on my shoulder until you can't cry anymore. HP- YOU ARE SO WORTHY OF HAVING SOMEONE LOVE YOU! You made some choices that HURT a lot of people. That doesn't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life punishing yourself...

Please, take time for yourswelf and listen to what your heart and mind are telling you. Step back from you job and figure out why you need to distract yourself so much. What is it that you are trying to prove to yourself? What demon are you wrestling with....

I hope I didn't overstep my friendship with you. I believe sometomes that tough love is the best love....

I care and want to see you fly....not flounder with broken wings.

Is it possible that at this point in time, you are hiding behind this desire to recover because you are terrified that no one will love you again?

"HP- YOU need to work on forgiving yourself. This needs to happen regardless of H's feelings. "

"HP- YOU ARE SO WORTHY OF HAVING SOMEONE LOVE YOU! You made some choices that HURT a lot of people. That doesn't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life punishing yourself..."

HP- Kily made some excellent points and I too worry about how you've been doing. Do you have any trusted friends that might be able to provide some insight on the ability to move on from past mistakes? IMO, forgiving yourself in no way means condoning the action but rather accepting that you're human....You really can't heal from all of this without taking that step. Good luck and god bless!

H-P hi,

Sorry you feel so bad. I said earlier I felt he needed to see you crash and burn. Could you be near that point where you could just let your guard down in front of your kids and cry? It's been a long time for him without you.

Sorry to press this but I posted the following on your other thread but you didn't reply. If you don't want to fine, if you would I'd appreciate it.

H-P hi,

I don't really understand the timing here.

Look at these phases.

1)You started chatting to a friend and discussed it with H.
2)It became an EA.
3)It went PA.
4)Separated from H. H moved out.
5)H discovered A
6)H filed for divorce.

Are these the phases and is the sequence right?

Who initiated the separation ?

At what point did you start lying about the extent of the contact with your friend ?

At what point in this mess do you wish he had fought for you?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I told him he didn't have to be jealous as the OM couldnt hold a candle to him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

H-P, That is one hell of a selfish thing to have said

... wishing you all the best. Take care of yourself.

~God Bless~

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your replies. Perhaps I'm wishy washy, but just reading your responses did make me feel better, and gave me more to think about.

I'm also very grateful today as several people were let go from the place where I work this week. (lay off) Thus far I'm not one of them. That has me very upset and nervous, of course.

I feel like I'm following God's plan by continuing my efforts in reuniting with my exhusband. I feel that it's the right thing to do, for now.

I do need to perhaps be more aggressive about it. I just feel I walk a fine line between assertiveness and being overbearing. I truly don't want to push the man, as it has to come from his heart. If it doesn't, in time, so be it.

J.L.

THANKS so much for responding. I'd wondered where you'd gone! I am in a down state, but right now I'm feeling better than yesterday. I feel grateful for the ideas I've received here.

Yes, my exH perhaps passed through this state. I wish he'd have called me and told me. He never told me a thing about how he felt about OM, not in words. He finally filed, but he never expressed loss to me.

I do need to talk to him, again, I suppose. I haven't sat with him face to face and talked about it since September. HE and I have talked on the phone many times about it, but not in person. I've only been to his place one time in the years he's been gone, as far as sitting down goes. That was in September.

Part of what he says he doesn't like about me is that I always had to 'take charge'. So you see where I'm at. On the one hand, I'm sure he likes it. On the other, his male ego tells him he shouldn't like it. That's why I have to make it seem like it's his idea, per your previous idea.

I truly hope he does realize I need him. I need him very badly. I told him so, a year ago--but it's never been well received.

I feel I have told him how I think and feel, again and again. Another time would be good. I've not spoken with OM in a very long time, since I ended it in mid July. HE called me once in early August, and I hung up the phone on him. Do I bring this up at all? It doesn't seem I should, but yet I want him to again know that I only want HIM.

You're right, JL--as you reminded me </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He has said you could vent, I think you need to call him and tell him you really really need him to listen to you while you do vent. You will be more than happy to reciprocate and let him vent, but would he listen to you?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I need to do this, but I will have to do it later on in the week. These sessions are draining for me, and I can't bear the thought of working too many days after such a talk.

I've thought of calling the Harley's in passing, but I have thought even more of getting my own counseling. I do like the idea that the Harley's help people after infidelity . The fear is that exH will be very angry to know that I am AGAIN trusting anything to do with the internet, and phone counseling would sound nuts to him. Just my thought since I've known him his whole life.

The money is an issue, too. As I mentioned earlier, many layoffs where I work. I'm a bit scared. I will think on it some more, however.

Can they be called one time only? That's the question.

KILY
Don't worry about being intrusive! I'd never look upon you as that way.

No, my job isn't a way of escaping my situation. It is the type of job that one could spend many, many hours on ---at home---all the time. I also have an extra assignment at my job, and that helps me pay bills. I truly value my anonymity here, so I don't want to say what I do. But let's just say that the more time I spend on my job, (research, paperwork, planning) the better I am at it.

I appreciate your concern. I haven't lost myself. I've always been a bit of a hard worker. When I was an at-home mom, my house was spotless--I was an award winning volunteer at the school--(don't laugh) , and my family was my true center of the universe. My children still are, but my job simply requires much extra work. IT is rewarding, both financially and intrinsically.

You're right, when you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One thing I've definately taken from this whole nightmare is that I am me. If my X can't forgive, or even open his eyes to who I've evolved into, it really is a great loss. One that I can't change.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my exH's case, he used to say I intimidated him some due to my personality and education. Now he probably just even feels more so that way, I don't know. He doesn't seem to appreciate the strides I've made in my field, in this short time.

YOU"RE so RIGHT, KILY! I do need to work on forgiving myself. I have, it's just the sense of LOSS is so, so huge. My exH was my best friend for years and years. We are both basically introverts, so it was exH and I--and our three children. We had our friends, family--but he and the children were all I needed. My entanglement with exH was truly a flukish nightmare for me.

I don't feel I run from things. I often times sit, and think of where I am at. I have a lovely artistic hobby that I spend time on about 15 hours a week. My health is great, just had a check up.(cholesterol is down, too) Thanks for asking! What have I done for me? Well, I recently bought a really pretty new nail polish, clothes, that sort of thing. I've never been the type to center too much on 'me'. I have thought of buying myself a beautiful piece of jewelry, but I can't bring myself to do it when I have furniture needs here. Thanks though, for asking how I'm doing!

Honestly, I know I'm worthy of love and if exH never loves me I would find someone else, or vice versa. That isn't my fear at all.

I'm referring to this: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it possible that at this point in time, you are hiding behind this desire to recover because you are terrified that no one will love you again?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't feel that way at all. I am a positive person, and I know this wouldn't happen . The truth is I LOVE MY ExHUSBAND, and OUR children, and I feel a reconciliation is in everyone's best interests. ExH and I were best friends for years, and he is the man I need. I truly don't worry about not attracting another man, that has never been an 'issue'. The thing is, exH is the one I LOVE.

For me, to give up and settle for someone else would be like 'water for chocolate'.

Thanks, Kily, for your love and concern. YOu never could overstep anything, and you say it all so kindly.

Litchfield
You're kind to respond, too. Yes, Kily made so many excellent points. I do have a few trusted friends who are very supportive with great insight into this. One of them said maybe exH and I couldn't fix this until we were in our sixties. Well, I certainly don't picture myself waiting around 20 years! Another friend just tells me to wait, and that maybe in time I'll see that he isn't right for me, anyway. I don't buy that one , at all. He was 'right', for years and years, before I lost it.

I do accept I'm human. What's harder to accept is that my exH is so unwilling to see that in me. I NEVER thought he'd be this way , ever in my life.

When I started having the A, I gave him many hints that I was involved, and messed up. I said to him, "I'm afraid you'll hate me." He said, "I could NEVER hate you. I'll always love you." I took that too literally.

Hi OLDER

Gosh, I appreciate the crash and burn remark. My kids have seen me cry many, many times. I'm sure at least once a week.

You're right, I 'm sorry I didn't reply on the other long thread. Your questions were good, forgive me for not answering them.

Your timeline is correct. Let me add a few details, okay?

1)You started chatting to a friend and discussed it with H.
Husband knew I talked with him, didn't mind. Said to me once, "You can't do anything through a computer."
2)It became an EA.
I told H the day after OM and I started to talk too personally. ExH said, "Be careful". He then kind of laughed.

After a few months of EA, I told exH I was curious to meet my internet 'friend', after all--he'd given me career advice, etc. He said, "I don't like it at all! If you meet him, I don't want to know about it!"

Another thing my exH told me, when he and I were discussing infidelity/divorce--- "I'd rather have you cheat on me than divorce."
3)It went PA.

4)Separated from H. H moved out.

This was a mutual decision. I was sick of lying, so I asked him if he could move out. He agreed. ExH and I weren't intimate EVER after I started PA with OM. ExH accepted this lack of S in marriage.
5)H discovered A

4 months after separation he asked me. I didn't deny it.
6)H filed for divorce.
husband filed 5 months after D-Day. TWO months after D-Day I asked husband to try marriage, again, he said NO NO>

Are these the phases and is the sequence right?
Yes, They are.

At what point did you start lying about the extent of the contact with your friend ?
I told exH I was tempted to meet him. He said, "If you ever do, don't tell me." I never told him I'd met him.

At what point in this mess do you wish he had fought for you?

I thought he KNEW the A was going on. I was going out more, away from the home--I thought he knew, and didn't care. He never asked me about behavior changes, etc. I thought he'd 'fight' for our relationship, and he didn't.

When I told ExH that OM couldn't hold a candle to ExH, I meant it as exH is such a better person, husband, and man. I simply screwed up, Older. It is hard to reason about the irrational. It WAS selfish, the most selfish thing in my life--the A.

Thanks again for caring, and responding here.

I hope that you all know how much I appreciate it.

Take care
H_P

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

H-P hi,

Thanks for answering that. It might be interesting to know what other guys think.

For my part, I couldn't show love to anyone so completely as your husband showed love to you. I am not that selfless.

You do come over as very controlling.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
This was a mutual decision. I was sick of lying, so I asked him if he could move out. He agreed. ExH and I weren't intimate EVER after I started PA with OM. ExH accepted this lack of S in marriage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did he show his acceptance of a sexless marriage? Did he not try to initiate? He was ignorant of A at this time.

Hang on a minute what did you say?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I told exH he couldn't hold a candle to the OM, I meant it as exH is such a better person, husband, and man </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you got this [censored] about face. I've just looked up this half baked expression and found the following </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Candle," meaning a source of light fashioned from wax or animal fat, first appeared in English quite long ago, around the year 700. Candles remained the primary source of artificial light for the next 1000 years or so, and if one were doing delicate work after dark, it was best to have an assistant to hold the candle to maximize the usable light. "To hold a candle to," a phrase which first appeared around 1550, meant "to assist in a subordinate position," and if you were "not able to hold a candle to," it meant you were too incompetent to be trusted with even a simple task. Eventually, "can't hold a candle to" became a generalized way to say that something is so inferior that it cannot be fairly compared to its betters.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Either way it is close to verbal abuse isn't it?

Do you think an IC could help with that?

Sorry I can't think of anything good to say.

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: olderandwiser ]</small>

Older,

I told exH ...."OM can't hold a candle to you."

I certainly understand the idiom, and I said it to my exH to reflect that ExH was in the 'superior' position. I see NOW, thanks to your helpfulness, that earlier this evening I typed it wrong here. Next time I better proofread long posts far more carefully.

It's a good thing there's an editing feature.

By the way, Older- if you look further above where you originally put in that quote, you'll be happy to see I got it 'right' the original time I said it here. Phew!

God bless you,
H_P

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

I think the idea of a letter might be a good one, do talk with a counselor wether you do so now or not... if you can please try the Harley's/ and or read their books or divorcebusters.

You can save your marriage... restore it...

Keep working on you. It is difficult and a long road, so you must be patient and kind.

Let him know you are willing to PROVE yourself to him. Tell him you will do whatever it takes, if you truly will.

I suggest you two start with some individual counseling, that may help a lot.... to just talk through the issues. See if he is willing... tell him it is really affecting you and you just want to see if there is any way with help that you two can do this.... you might be much more successful with third party help. I know he may not be wiling, but keep proving to him how far you will go...

Hugs, Honey

Hi H_P

Just a quick note. I am sorry that you were having such a bad day. Again, sometimes you just have to accept that you will have bad days, but I do believe that they become fewer and far between.

I understand completely how helpless you must sometimes feel. It is difficult to strike the right balance with your X-H between not being too pushy (as he sees it), but trying to show him how serious you are in your desire to reconcile. With time it will become right for you to work out whether and when you need to sit down and talk to him.

Huum, I like your analogy - water vs. chocolate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well, if you want your chocolate, stick with it!!

Thinking of you and wishing you well from London.
Lisa

"The fear is that exH will be very angry to know that I am AGAIN trusting anything to do with the internet"

H_P- Maybe this has been discussed before but I was just wondering what you think your XH's reaction would be to you particpating in this forum? Would he be upset about the details? Understanding? Just curious and by the way, you sound much better!