Love Must Be Tough: by James Dobson

I thought this chapter was particularly relevant to many here @ MB currently. Here is some of that chapter.

The problem has it's origins in childhood, long before a young man and woman stand at the alter to say, "I do." For her part, the girl is taught subtly by her culture that marriage is a lifelong romantic experience; that loving husbands are entirely responsible for the happiness of their wives; that a good relationship between a man and a woman should be sufficient to meet all needs and desires; that any sadness or depression that a woman might encounter is her husband's fault. At least, he has the power to eradicate it if he cares enough. In other words, many American women come into marriage with unrealistically romantic expectations which are certain to be dashed. Not only does this orientation set up a bride for disappointment and agitation in the future, it also places an enormous pressure on her husband to deliver the impossible."

Yes, our culture is still today that a woman relies on her husband for her happiness and failure. We talked about this in the group session that I am attending. Happiness has been taught in girls, at a very young age, that the man will set the happiness in oneselve.

I saw my father being happiest at getting things done. My mother and father loved each other very much. I found this out in my later years. Also, my mother went through a terrible menopause stage. To this day, she doesn't admit it, but I know. And I am going through a tough menopause stage too.

My father, didn't like being criticized. My mother did criticize him, for many things that he did not do. But he was a hard worker, and my father was a good HONEST man. You could trust my father for his word, his committment, his vows, his exact word, no delaying, nothing. Except if he were severly ill. Then he would tell the person as soon as he was well he would get it done. That is one thing that I learned about a husband, was what he stated was the truth. The honest truth. And when he made a committment to gt something done, it would be done.

A woman according to the rules, was the recessive partner in a marriage. I was a recessive partner, but I was not treated equally. That was as much my fault as my husbands fault. I should of devised a plan to set the boundaries, on making the adjustments in married life a 50/50 plan. Instead, I was allowing my husband to take more and more control of our lives. I see, where we both made great mistakes in our marriage. A woman doesn't know, or was taught to express her disappointment in marriage. A woman uses anger, cause she is like a tiger in a cage, she has to let the anger come out, or she is going to explode.

How many women, you yourself included, see this pattern. Like when giving birth to your babies. You loved this man, but during this time, of PAIN after PAIN, and the stress on your body, plus the hormonal changes that are going on every minute, the let down of milk that causes extreme pressure, and then the swoosh of amnionic fluid as the babies protective fluid releases your body, all these changes, and you want to express to your husband all the changes that you feel inside of your body. But the pain takes over, and it is one extreme adjustment, after another. The anger comes out, and you could just scream at your husband. The man feels hurt, that his wife doesn't love him anymore. Well, let the man go through the 9 months of adjustment, soreness of the breasts, the letdown of the milk, the breast feeding where your nipples start to bleed cause the baby is sucking on tissue that was not used to this pressure.

Going through childbearing classes, don't really prepare you for the labor, and delivery, 100%. There are so many things that you experience and are unaware of.

Marriage is the same. The husband expects you to be at his beck and call for sex. He expects a well nourishing meal on the table. The hsuband expects the financial status to be done. You realize you have many jobs to do, and not enough time. The husband is of the gender, that he can only focus on one thing at a time. A woman, cooks, answer the phone, reads the recipe book, writes messages, watches the kids. I would like to see a father take over all of this, while the woman goes through hormone changes monthly, taking care of vomiting, dirty diapers, laundry, cooking, bills, finances, etc.

The only ones that seem to get along fine are the ones who can have a housekeeper, a nanny, and etc.

I am not complaining, but it is true that todays modern woman has it worse than before. We are taught to look nice, be nice, greet the husband when he comes home, be available for his sexual desires, be there for the kids, and it just goes on and on. Could you imagine what a classroom would be of teaching all this to the 16 and up kids. Where would you start? What would you start with? And to say, after a whole semester of this, that there is so much more that needs to be addressed, but only life experiences can cover them all.

Yes, there is reason for many women to be angry. Not saying it is okay. But there is a lot of pressure on us to perform. And we are not to make mistakes, cause as you can see, when taking your car into a service department, you are taken. Which they have shown on TV, a woman. We can say the vehicle needs this or that. They don't know anything about this vehicle. Sure, we get taken for granted, and it is hard having to deal with this on a daily scheudle. Those who work, know that their income is not the same as a man, if the two were to have a totally equal job. A man gets a bigger income than a woman.

Just my opinion, from reading, watching TV, and the effects of today society.

Still quoting Dobson:

"Let me make this clear that I am not condemning this woman out of hand. She has a good case against her husband. He doesn't meet her needs properly and he's an inveterate workaholic. To that extent, the man is guilty as charged. I attempted to express this feminine perspective in my book WHAT WIVES WISH THEIR HUSBANDS KNEW ABOUT WOMEN, because I believe it is valid.

But, every story has two sides, and John's version should also be told. His wife is wrong to believe that her contentment is exclusively his burden. No one person should be expected to carry another person emotionally. Only Diane can make herself happy! She has no right to lay that total load on John. A good marriage is one in which the dominant needs are met within the relationship, but where each spouse develops individual identity, interests, and friendships. This may be the most delicate tightrope act in marriage. Extreme independence is as destructive to a relationship as total dependence."

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

and <poof> d-day occurred. The anger was punched out of me in one fell swoop. I was left a pool of mush... low-functioning... world-on-tilt...

When I read this... and "Mastery of Love," which says much the same thing... it was like reading the story of my life. Also reading LoveBusters helped me identify exactly WHAT I was doing and the effect my anger was having on my H.

"The Passionate Marriage" helped me see that I couldn't drive his bus... I had to let my H be who he was... and do things in his own time...

Good stuff, Pepper!

Cali

Still quoting Dobson:

"To summarize my concern, American women tend to be more unrealistic about marriage than their sisters around the world. Movies and television have made them feel that romantic excitement is not only a birthright, but the most important aspect of marriage. When this 'feeling' component of the relationship is missing, the family is doomed. It'll just have to be scrapped. Not even the welfare of the children is important enough to preserve the marriage, and that is tragic.

Let me speak directly and boldly to the women who have seen themselves in this chapter. With all due respect, my most difficult task may be to help you recognize yourselves as part of the problem. The angry women I've counseled in the past have been so consumed by their husband's disrespect and failures that they couldn't acknowledge their role in his inability to respond. But, certainly, they had helped to make him what he was.

Look at it this way. Verbal bludgeoning never made anyone more loving or sensitive. You simply can't tear a guy to pieces and then expect him to meet your emotional needs. He's not made that way. Rather than attacking an unresponsive man and driving him away, there is a method of drawing him in your direction. It is accomplished by taking the pressure off him -- by pulling backward a bit -- by avoiding the worn-out accusations and complaints -- by appearing to need him less -- by showing appreciation for what he does right and for being fun to be with. Happiness is a marvelous magnet to the human personality."

This is the last bit. Still quoting Dobson:

"Sometimes it is necessary to interject a challenge into the relationship in order to motivate a disengaged spouse. According to the love must be tough philosophy, a demeanor of self-confidence, mysterious quietness, and independence is far more effective in getting attention than a frontal assault."

~~~~~~

Thanks for reading! Tell me what you think?

I see mine and my WH's marriage in your post, but only for the first 7 years of our 25-yr M. Also, I can honestly say that I didn't enter M with overly romantic expectations, and I'd already begun to realize that I was responsible for my own behavior and happiness. After 7 years and 2 kids, I finished school and got a job, became more independent. That's when H had his first A (PA), maybe he felt I ignored him. Two years later I got a better job, and H had another A (EA). Fast-forward to present, I went back to school part-time, thinking of a side career in landscape design, H starts his current A (soul-mate A). Maybe I shouldn't ever improve myself, it's too dangerous to my M!

I've noticed that many of the gender descriptions in books like Love Must Be Tough and SAA are reversed for me and my H. HE is the one who says emotional connections btwn us are missing, I am the logical one who gets things done. I make more money than he does, I have more self-control, and I have learned that my happiness is NOT dependent on H or the M, and that's the way it should be. I believe H, on the other hand, is looking for someone to make him happy (OW), magically overnight. He doesn't want to take responsibility for his personal problems, such as childhood sexual abuse, his father cheating on his mother for 20 years until she Dv'd him, and lack of attention from his father. He has also suffered from depression throughout his life but hasn't been on anti-D until recently. He was/is a negative and difficult person to live with.

The part about angry wives hurting their H's with non-support of their job, shutting down sexually and underming H's relationship to his children made me wince. Guilty as charged. As H withdrew, letting us know he was unhappy, I took on more of the family responsibilities. I did things with a smile on my face instead of H's scowl, so our kids got a positive perspective from me to balance H's negativity. Below the surface I was angry at H, though, b/c to me the life we were living had so many good things about it, and he was so unhappy. I took it personally, no matter what I did he wasn't happy. AND he wouldn't take responsibilty for his OWN happiness, he just got more depressed.

Right now H is living w OW, been there for all of 2003 so far. I'm wondering if he will see that even OW can't make him happy, that he still has his old problems, that it's up to HIM to do something about it.

Thanks for the thought-provoking read, Pepper!

Lablady

Lablady ~~~ everyone enters marriage carrying baggage ! It's monogramed with our initials. We can only fix our personal baggage .... you and the rest of MBer's are here to do just that! FIX OURSELVES.

..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (most of the time, anyway .... it's so darned tempting to fix our spouses .... cuz we know everything! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pepper- Believe me, I'm trying to fix myself! If not for the M I have now, then at least for my kids, any future R I might have, and for ME! You're right about baggage and marriage, my parents were the perfect mom/dad couple, but mom died and I got a new picture to look at. My early expectations were not gonna happen, so I had to adjust. Maybe I picked a man to replace mom, very emotional, but I got more than I bargained for. I'm gonna learn all I can about this stuff.

Thanks for the bait you threw, it tasted great! Now about that hook..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lablady

I know the next book I'm going to read! My WW has been totally dependent on me to make her happy over these years and we have had many discussions about how I can be basically happy when she is not. I've told her hundreds of times that she's ultimately the only one that can do that for herself but that I'm here to help her in any way I can. Thanks Pepper!

In some ways this pretty much describes what happened in our marriage to a "T".

I don't know what expectations I had when I entered into the marriage. I was only 20 (he was 29) and actually the first year was bliss.

Our second year, my husband went back to school to further his education and his climb of the corporate ladder. He has been with the same agency for 36 years, starting at the bottom and working his way to the top.

It seemed like every year he was applying for another job, a promotion. He would get it and off we would go, we would move again. I learned to adjust and make new friends wherever we were. There was one point in time that we had moved 7 times in 11 years.

5 years into the marriage our son was born. I was busy being a mother while he was busy bringing home the paycheck.

I don't think either of us realized the changes that were occurring. We never expressed anger or got into the verbal brawl however. Both of us have more gentle personalities. Maybe it would have been better if we had argued.

Instead we both withdrew to our separate lives. I had been his biggest cheerleader, but the resentment had built in me over the years, and I just didn't say anything at all. Sure occasionally there were a few jabs, always in a joking manner.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Young John is out there competing like crazy in the marketplace, thinking his successes are automatically appreciated by the lady at home. To his shock, she not only fails to notice, but even seems to resent the work that takes him from her </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I failed to notice, there were plenty of women in the workplace that were praising him. He was their new supervisor and they were eager to please.

Reverting back to the pride issue, this is where I failed. I never suspected that my H. would have an affair. I never considered him really physically attractive...just average. I even had a close friend to tell me later "I would have NEVER dreamed. Not him. I would have thought you because you are young and pretty"...PRIDE!

That is how his affair occurred, but instead of dealing with our core issues, we swept them under the rug and the distance grew wider.

It took me making the mistake of doing the same thing back (revenge affair? who knows <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) for us to finally realize that something had to change.

We took the bull by the horns, did the hard work in therapy. I basically said to him in therapy "if it happens again buddy, we are through....no discussion...period".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">According to the love must be tough philosophy, a demeanor of self-confidence, mysterious quietness, and independence is far more effective in getting attention than a frontal assault." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe this is true! I am a really open, transparent person. Maybe I need to develop a more "mysteriousness" about me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lablady:
<strong>I see mine and my WH's marriage in your post... Also, I can honestly say that I didn't enter M with overly romantic expectations...I've noticed that many of the gender descriptions in books like Love Must Be Tough and SAA are reversed for me and my H. HE is the one who says emotional connections btwn us are missing, I am the logical one who gets things done. I make more money than he does, I have more self-control, and I have learned that my happiness is NOT dependent on H or the M, and that's the way it should be. I believe H, on the other hand, is looking for someone to make him happy
magically overnight. He doesn't want to take responsibility for his personal problems...his father cheating on his mother for 20 years (till she passed away(italics belong to LupoLady)...and lack of attention from his father. He has also suffered from depression throughout his life but hasn't been on anti-D until recently. He was/is a negative and difficult person to live with.

The part about angry wives hurting their H's with non-support of their job, shutting down sexually...made me wince. Guilty as charged.

Below the surface I was angry at H, though, b/c to me the life we were living had so many good things about it, and he was so unhappy. I took it personally, no matter what I did he wasn't happy. AND he wouldn't take responsibilty for his OWN happiness, he just got more depressed.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LabLady,
This is MY story, too! Amazing, how similar....

There's just a few differences:

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now H is living w OW, been there for all of 2003 so far. I'm wondering if he will see that even OW can't make him happy, that he still has his old problems, that it's up to HIM to do something about it.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, my WH left to go live w/ow. At least at the time I thought she was an "OW", now I'm not so sure. I think it was just a "place to go" while he went forward with the Div. Once it was finalized (I'm talking the same week!) he was G-O-N-E. Left her place and moved 2400 miles away to be w/dad. Not exactly sure if it was never about HER, or that the "happiness" had worn off already, so he's "on the move" again.

It's too bad. I don't know how long it will take him to realize that true happiness only occurs within. I wonder how many more "relationships" he will enter into (for the short-term, less than 1-2 years) and then leave those, too? At his age, maybe he never will figure it out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Interesting thread, Pepper, thanks for writing all this. There sure are only a few "common" paths we humans follow, aren't there?

God Bless all.

Where are all these men who supposedly are dedicated to providing financially for their family to the exclusion of everything else? That hasn't been my experience - a lot of men leave their families specifically because they don't feel like supporting their kids anymore, and there are plenty of available women out there who can buy themselves a husband.

Nellie .... would you pray for me right now? Thanks.