I sure hope I'm able to carry this one off .....

There are choices in life, and there are CHOICES in life.

Choices can be selected using one's intellect, feelings, emotions, appetite, curiosity, hope, fears, hormones, advice from others ..... or a fortune cookie.

CHOICES.... is where the rubber meets the road. The Big Kahuna. The Mutha' of all choices. The core of middle earth. The big bang.

Do we make CHOICES using fear? Using feelings? When we are angry or hurt? When we are PMS-ing? ..... People do. Read these boards ..... with a watchful eye, see if you can tell when someone is making CHOICES with the wrong tools.

Reducing to the lowest common denominator .... we find ourselves faced with our integrity and our moral principles. These tools are to be used when facing CHOICES.

THIS is YOUR spiritual dilemma. Your feelings and fears are cyclic. Not to be trusted while making CHOICES. Your moral and spiritual foundation, your deeply held principles, your life compass is your guide.

CHOICES define who we are.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sure hope I'm able to carry this one off ..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You did! I get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Great thought provoking post.

I read this in O mag "Speaking--speaking well--is like a great dance...."

Pepper, you have a marvelous gift of being able to transmit your thoughts here on MB.

S.

I dance (communicate here) with two left feet.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I agree with you Pepper.

However, I do not believe making CHOICES based on feelings and fears makes one less moral, or even wrong.

It would be great if everyone could make their choices without emotions playing a part. However, at least in the beginning, it rarely will happen where infedility is concerned. Perhaps in the cases of type A personalities???

I know that for a full year and beyond my CHOICES were based on pure emotion(where my marriage is concerned). I could not turn those emotions off, and they were, at times, all consuming. Now as time goes by I might question why I made those decisions. But, those decisions I do not believe make up who I am.

Course if we made ALL CHOICES based on emotion we would be in for loads of problems in every part of our lives, rather that just marital <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

jd

JD .... so good to "see" you.

We watched as your CHOICE evolved. Emotional choices are part of the journey, and of course are not morally wrong. (Hence the rollercoaster analogy) The rubber meets the road when your defining moment becomes who YOU are, when you have worked through the emotions and fears, and all that other human dressing.

JD .... CHOICE isn't how serious the dilemma is .... it is from where you pull your answer.

Pepper,
I like your post. I think people who live by being "swept away" deny the fact they make choices.

Yes, but HOW do you know???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Choices can be selected using one's intellect, feelings, emotions, appetite, curiosity, hope, fears, hormones, advice from others ..... or a fortune cookie.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now I'm face a pretty DARN BIG ENORMOUS choice....or is it CHOICE?

What if your rubber is meeting the road and there is confusion and fear (along with other emotions) and you've used your moral compass and integrity and things have only gotten worse? Now, one can beg to argue that those particulars (moral compass and integrity) are in question (or aren't strong)....and I tell you that mine isn't and they ARE strong. What has happened is that mine have been undermined for years without me realizing it WHILE it was happening and the very essence of my moral compass and integrity is what has gotten me into this position. OR, should I say that my moral compass and integrity have been taken advantage of and my ignorace kept me from recognizing it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> This is NOT an attempt to blame-shift. Whatever the reason for why things have turned out this way, I say that I very strongly feel that it is because I brushed my feelings, appetite, hormones, emotions and fears aside, and relied solely on my moral compass and integrity.

Pepper, so much has gone on in my life since I last exchanged posts with you (even since Bad's board *poofed* out of existence). It would take me many long hours to respost everything going on with me and my family. Quick breadown here...I've realized that I've been verbally and emotionally abused (and even physically abused) the entireity of my marriage and it has only escalated since d-day (several years ago). In trying to *right* myself and build up integrity I've created a worse situation for myself.

My moral compass says *thou shalt not commit adultery* and I won't. My integrity says *thou shall uphold thou's end of the bargain* (my vows)....but using my integrity and moral compass to uphold my end of the bargain is slowly killing my spirit. I'm going through the age old conflict of right and wrong and trying to decide. The RIGHT thing to do would be to maintain my integrity and uphold my end of the bargain no matter what. But, that *what* is getting to be too much.

I feel like I'm in worse shape now than I EVER was before my affair(s). Now, I don't know if that is a bad thing or good thing. Maybe my authenitic self is starting to rear it's head. But, maybe, just maybe, I realize what an UTTER fool I've been for all of these years.

I do know that if I don't uphold my end of the marriage vows *til death do us part* then I've lost a bit of my integrity. If I DO uphold my end of the vows...my integrity is being battered, abused and taken advantage of....and that, in and of itself, is damaging my integrity, or maybe it's dignity I'm thinking of.

I guess if Mohommad won't come to the mountain then the mountain must come to Mohammad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Love ya, Pep,

selly

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Hehe well I've been keeping a low profile, sort of like those low profile rubber tires lol... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do agree with your post and think it was wonderfully written. Just wanted to make sure the newer kids on the block know that others have been where they are, ie; their decisions based on fears and feelings.

Thank you for writing this, and remembering my sometimes(most times) stupid choices... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My biggest problem was and perhaps still is setting boundries...oops <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sel .... it's not about being an utter fool in the past, recent or distant past. (Who wasn't an utter fool? Name ONE person!)

Keep talking.

I think the pain you feel is your integrity pushing to the foreground.

I can't do this for you sweetheart. You'll have lost yourself if anyone does it for you.

PS ..... SEL

There is NO end point to this. The CHOICE of integrity and character is never settled!

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Borrowed from Cerri's Dec. newsletter:

Professor Dumbledore says to Harry at the end of the movie, "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> THIS is YOUR spiritual dilemma. Your feelings and fears are cyclic. Not to be trusted while making CHOICES. Your moral and spiritual foundation, your deeply held principles, your life compass is your guide.

CHOICES define who we are.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I may be taking a different path here for a second...

But, all of a sudden, it hit me like a load of bricks..and I felt this overwhelming sadness... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It sudddenly hit me that the choice?/ choice I made to work on my marriage was based on fear. Fear of being alone, fear of loss of my husbands income, fear of being a failure because my marriage failed, fear of the future of the unknown.

I keep typing and trying to express this...(I keep erasing what I am trying to post)...but I don't know exactly where this feeling is coming from.

I am sad.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

Susan, I'm beginning to see "overwhelming sadness" as an invitation rather than a wall.

Yes, please elaborate...

Invitation to....

No, YOU elaborate! ..... imagine yourself without this sadness~~~~ what would THAT bring you?

Discomfort always precedes enlightenment .... so, go through the labor pains Suz ..... you're "expecting".

waaahhhh <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I can't...I don't know how, I don't know where to start...I don't know where it would bring me?

Acceptance maybe? Acceptance of the my CHOICES? I don't know.

And I don't always have this overwhelming sadness. It just hit me just now...

hummmm...am I PMS'ing???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so, go through the labor pains Suz ..... you're "expecting".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe this is why I only had one child. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> It's was hard. I had a bad time. For 6 months afterwards, I would call my husband and say "You have GOT to come take care of this baby. I am so sick. I can't do it.

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

WAT my friend ~~~~ You always manage to K.I.S.S.

What is Cerri's Dec newsletter? I am in the dark here.

ARGH, Pepper!

I've realized what it is about you and Jake that drives me so loopy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> !

You are both so.....so......SOOOO VAGUE.

What's more, I think it's INTENTIONAL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Methodical and calculated to say the least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Crap....okay, gonna think...THINK...about what you posted. I think that was yer point, huh?

selly

Yeah Sel .... it is intentional. You're a grown up girl. And, I have faith and trust in you!!!! SO THERE! Take that compliment and shove it! LOL!

Send Jake here. He needs a good perpperin'.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is Cerri's Dec newsletter </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cerri, HERE on MB. She's a coach. Has her own newsletter, like Harley has the Marriagebuilder newsletter.

Now, help me!!

I feel the need to call my therapist, except, now she is a friend, so I can't see her "professionally".

It is all up to you sister!