Space ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

She is NOT offering anything but smoke 'n mirrors at this point.

Be gentle and strong.

SC, Pepper:

I've been thinking about this a lot since Pepper's previous post to you.

My W is behaving somewhat similarly to yours (but then, what WS is really "unique"?), and we both have long-term or multiple As to deal with (somehow, my W feels that insisting that she had 2 As with RM, one 4 years long at the beginning, and the second one about 9 months long recently, is "better" than calling it a 12-yr A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). And we both have grown and growing kids and a lot of "stuff" to figure out what to do with.

I've thought a lot about the MB plan B, versus what you and I have been doing, and I come back to the same impression I vehemently stated a few months ago. I'm going to plan A for the rest of my life. If I can't "fix" my end of the M while living with my W, I'm going to DV. No plan B, because I learn the most while we're able to communicate. Now, it's entirely possible that I'm on the verge of beginning recovery, or "heaven on earth" as a friend of ours (who's GOTTEN there) once described it. I don't always know. We ARE talking a LOT more, with a LOT less arguing than ever before, so maybe that's a good sign. We still don't have a NC agreement, but at the same time she says she probably won't have even any professional contact with RM after the work's done this fall, and she said herself she doesn't believe she can be friends anymore. So, maybe it's just me that feels it's hopeless even now at times.

But we're COMMUNICATING. We're COMMUNICATING! WE'RE communicating! About US, about HIM, about our past, about the present, about the future... And though I don't feel we're making a whole lot of progress while in the thick of it at times, we're COMMUNICATING. What would we be doing if I were to invoke plan B to FORCE her to face and end this addiction by refusing to see or speak to her until she meets my requirement to "do whatever it takes?" We wouldn't be COMMUNICATING. Our imaginations would fester and come up with all KINDS of dire scenarios of what the other is thinking and doing behind our backs. We COMMUNICATED about this very fact. She does it just as much as I do. And now, with our COMMUNICATION becoming more frequent, the times that our festering thoughts have to fester are getting shorter, because the times when we COMMUNICATE are getting longer. Eventually, there simply won't be any TIME for thoughts of RM.

What do I "expect" to accomplish with this communication? It's not the end-all, be-all. I'll still need to decide whether we have a future together or not. But I can do that better by COMMUNICATING with my W, than by hiding out in a hotel room, away from my kids and my "toys", staring at that cheesy print over the cheesy particle board headboard and posting all day every day to forums like this one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I've learned a lot more about US in the past couple of weeks than in the previous year since D-day (and I won't even comment on my "knowledge" of "us" before D-day, it's so pitiful). I'm going to keep it up. Until I "drop", if necessary. Only by keeping the lines of COMMUNICATION open, do I expect to be able to determine whether I've done all I can to save this M.

I, Qfwfq, say so. Say so.
P.S. I hope I didn't understate the importance of COMMUNICATION. Gawd, I hope I didn't understate it.
♥

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

Today I took her to the airport, she's off to Madrid to meet up with her girlfriends for a week.

We spoke in the car as we went there, and I asked her if she had anything she wanted to tell me...like what she'd thought about my request to provide demonstration that she would, indeed, end contact with the OM if we separated, as she's requesting.

She said she didn't know how to do that, and asked how I thought she could do that. I said I have no idea, everything I've proposed in the past has seemed ridiculous to her, so this time she was going to have to come up with it herself.

Then I told her, very nicely, that I thought the best thing we could do would be to let the divorce go through, as planned. That if after 1.5 years since dday, if she could not make up her mind even to committ to trying to rebuild our marriage, I didn't think it was going to happen. And that unfortunately, since I am the imperfect being that I am, I cannot continue to live in the limbo we've been living any longer.

She held my hand, tight, and said nothing. I think she tried to say something a couple of times but did not...

We held each other, kissed several times, I let her know again that I would always love her, no matter what, that there would always be a bit of my heart that belongs to her, and that regardless of where she is, who she's with, or what she's doing, this would not change. That unfortunately, since the "real" SC cannot be the only one to show up all the time, that the hurt, scared SC still needed some attention and care, so that the best thing would be to divorce, and let each one find his/her happiness on our own.

She told me she loves me too, didn't say much more, and then she was gone...

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

speechless

And you have to wonder what happens to people that gets them to this sort of lifestyle. I mean, her M is about to end, her S is obviously making some effort to "find her" even now, and she's going to Madrid with her GFs for a week?

Who knows, though. Maybe one of them is a MC?... fat chance.

-Qfwfq

Uhhhh... "speechless" what in the world is she doing? or "speechless" what in the world is wrong with SC?

Speechless.... I want to whomp your wife on the head so hard her teeth rattle and her brains fall back into place. Her denseness is an afront to womenhood. Astonishing in her utter inability to see the HUGE F'ing pothole right there in front of her.

A CONVICT????? Marry a convict????? Disrupt her entire family over a G-D CONVICT????

I can see her at your children's weddings with a CONVICT on her arm!!!! She pisses me off and my red hair is now aflame!!!!!

Is she NUTS? Order an MRI ... she may have a brain tumor!

THERE .... that's an LB .... for those who were uncertain what an LB looks like.

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

see Spacecase .... this is how an Irish girl gets pissy...

"speechless" was polite.

Oh my SC. I'm almost speechless too. You've been the model of patience, perserverence and unconditional love.

She has the nerve to tell you she loves you? After you say the best thing is to let the Dv go ahead? And just before she gets out of the car to go on a trip for a week with her GFs??

Your instincts are right. She's seemingly in a permanent fog. She still seems to have a huge sense of entitlement to whatever makes her happy, with no concern for anyone but herself. I'd say let the Dv progress on schedule. Look after yourself now.

I'm so sorry that she still hasn't woken up.

Jen

And ... just in case you thought I was still speechless.....

If your W thinks YOU are "controlling" ..... she has no idea how controlling a CONVICT is .... they lie, manipulate and control for a living.

She is stepping off the ledge of normal marital controlling behavior and falling face first into the arms of a professional controller.

She has no idea what hell is about to befall her ........

there, I think I'm done.

Sorry SC .... Your W pisses me off because I cannot stand MASSIVE STUPIDITY in otherwise intelligent persons.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Speechless.... I want to whomp your wife on the head so hard her teeth rattle and her brains fall back into place. Her denseness is an afront to womenhood. Astonishing in her utter inability to see the HUGE F'ing pothole right there in front of her.

A CONVICT????? Marry a convict????? Disrupt her entire family over a G-D CONVICT????

I can see her at your children's weddings with a CONVICT on her arm!!!! She pisses me off and my red hair is now aflame!!!!!

Is she NUTS? Order an MRI ... she may have a brain tumor!

THERE .... that's an LB .... for those who were uncertain what an LB looks like.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YYYOOOWWW!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But I DO love redheads! And angry ones...even better!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> LOL!!!
The Irish part...hmmmm...dunno, no experience there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh dear, a sore point there...you have NO idea just HOW controlling he is...two examples for you:

He's pissed off at her because I CAME BACK HOME! He says to her "How would you feel if I were living with my wife while we have our relationship?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

He asks her to put on her shortest miniskirt and tightest low-cut blouse and go see some guy who's supposed to give him some money for an appeal..."show him your t..s if you have to, but we NEED this!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> triple <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But you know what? There's not a D...ned thing more I can do about that! It's HER choice, and she's made the same choice over and over again...

Space.... ((((((SPACE))))))-

So sorry it is still so hard. It will get better as you draw your boundaries and define what is acceptable and what is not.

You have plan a'd and that makes the boundary drawing easier, and more OK in my book.... you are doing boundaries with love, not anger and hate....well accept for the f...g comment.... but we all slip up. YOu are doing this with true love and kindness, and that is wonderful.

I do think as your wife loses what she has with you she will miss it more. Let her lose you.... hopefully the D will not happen, but let her see what a d really means as you are.

I have spent less and less time with my wh lately, guess what he misses me more and more... total change in attitude.

Have I ever mentioned, or have you ever heard of the rubber band principle? Where in a male/female realtionship there needs to be a certain amount of tension, and as one draws away the other draws nearer... I know you know this.. but i like how it is named.. the rubber band principle, it makes it easy for me to remember it.

It truly works, draw away.... she will draw nearer... F.e. She came up to you to reconcile that argument,... as you give up she cares. Sad that it has to get to this point.. but now she is starting to see what she will lose.... Don't be too mushy with your love for her right now, let her earn it from here on out..... Be willing if she is truly in the relationship, but if she is not really in for the commitment... give her that space her actions ask for... and see how she really likes that space.

I am tired and have to go.. but I do hope it gets better. STAY STRONG! Did I hear you say you have a new JOB! Congrats... funny how good things happen as we all get stronger.. my job is getting better too, as I feel more like me and less like ms. doormat.

Hugs SPACE, I hope we get together soon!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> HOney

Ok Cadet, that OM deserves a given name. Let's see PBR is already taken and he can't be a rabbit, ratmeat is already taken..... let's see howz about. zebrabut? PBN (psyco babble nut), userloser (UL for short), dumbhead, etc.... arrrgh... I am angry thinking of how this nut acts. He needs to be locked up permanently.

Is he suppose to get out soon? Is he married? I wouldn't wish this guy on PBR? Wait....maybe I would!?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

U want her address?

L.

My, my...I hadn't really thought of giving him a name...maybe I will. Suggestions anyone?
He has 2 failed marriages behind him, where neither ex wants to let him have contact with the children... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
He's in until 2010 unless, of course, he wins an appeal, or negotiates an early release in exchange for information, and any number of other "humane" prisoner rights things...
It's amazing to me; things they've done are punishable by 5 years in federal prison and/or $100,000 fines, and still, they are allowed to talk and mail each other...no visits for now...but undoubtedly that "sanction" will be lifted soon...in the interest of "preparing the inmate for re-insertion into society", you know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Space,

I've been gone and can see I have alot of reading to do to catch up!!

I am relieved for you that everything is out in the open. The secrecy is the hardest to bear in my opinion.

You have already recovered and moved on! What a difference I see from a year ago when I first came here.

Personal recovery is what it's all about. Now, back to reading and catching up!! Blessings, CSue

Orchid:

"Ok Cadet, that OM deserves a given name. Let's see PBR is already taken and he can't be a rabbit, ratmeat is already taken..... let's see howz about. zebrabut? PBN (psyco babble nut), userloser (UL for short), dumbhead, etc.... arrrgh... I am angry thinking of how this nut acts. He needs to be locked up permanently"

Might I suggest 'Australopithef**k'? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-Qfwfq

OK, Q; what is the farthest, dimmest, and least known about star, planet or galaxy that we can name this guy after?

I would suggest the name ButtBoy...ButtWipe...

or something using the word... "urANUS"..

He is in prison after all... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

committed

Stars, planets, and galaxies are beautiful things to behold...

...however, there is a class of objects between stars and planets that have a rather appropriate name for Mr. Con: Brown Dwarfs. How 'bout calling him Gliese 229B? Only it's more important than he is... ;o)

-Qfwfq

" Brown Dwarf Gliese 229B
Credit: R.H. Brown, D. Trilling (U. Arizona), C. Ftaclas (Michigan Tech), IRTF

Explanation: The spot near the bottom is an image of an unusual type of object: a brown dwarf. A brown dwarf is sometimes called a "failed star" because it does not have enough mass to shine by nuclear fusion. A brown dwarf is more massive than a planet, though, and thought to have formed through stellar-like nebular condensation. Brown dwarfs and planets are likely quite abundant, but usually difficult to see in the glare of brighter stars they orbit. New techniques, such as using coronagraphic masks to block the light of the bright star, are allowing the detection of these faint stellar companions. Above, much of the bright light of central Gliese 229A has been blocked and digitally subtracted, leaving the clearest image yet of Gliese 229B. Perfecting techniques like this increases ability to detect still dimmer Earth-type planets orbiting nearby stars."