3,

Man I just got home and am feeling bad because i was not there for you today.

Get your HARD HAT ON.

I don't see how you can not love bust.
Will you just [censored] or get off the pot.

Open marriage? Don't fool yourself. This is what is going on right now. Where is WS. I thought only Wed and Fri, which is bad enough.

June? Come on 3. She wants your kids and your life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Don't EVEN go there. Maybe I need to calm down.
You know, God made me pray for my enemies, ie: ow. Maybe you need to start praying for a new man to come into her life.

Good, your WS hates the word, 'choices'. GOOD. I know you are in NY, and there is a 3 hour difference in out times. I live in Seattle, WA.

Blow it out of the water 3, what have you got to lose? A lot of heartache? So?????

Sorry, I guess I am venting, but this just makes me so mad!!!!

Sorry 2wice, I don't mean to 2x4, but 3. Come on!

Proud of you for standing up for your kids. No contact for kids with ow. You, and THEY have enough on their plates.

You deserve better, you made it before, and you don't need this drama. And yes, your WS is getting off on all the drama, no ifs ands or buts.

Can we say AAAAAARRRRRGGGG!!!!!

I know, I say calm, calm, calm. And look at me. Girl, I am hurtin' for you.

I mean, do you like being abused? Cause that is what it is. Where is your self-esteem? Your kids are going thru this too.

No more lies. It is time for someone to tell the truth. The ow is NOT going to go away on her own. And she is not a nice person. Your WS is selfish and in the fog.

I know, you said no 2x4, but I am slammin' you anyway.

So tell me the fallout from this weekend. I guess I'm not praying hard enough. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

3,

PS. He doesn't HAVE to go. Either you are first or you are not.

If it was me, it would be plan B. How much will you take. Is it worth the destruction of 3? I hope he reads this. I hope he sees that he is destroying his family, and the person that he made a vow to.

Does ow care about you or your feelings? Does WS with what he is doing.

Sorry, I need to step back from this for a moment, hope everything goes okay.

Stand up for those kids, don't give in to ow seeing them even for a moment, until it is over.

Geez, 3, when will you decide enough is enough?

Sorry I am not supportive as I should be, but, is there anyone else out there that can comment on this craziness? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Love and prayers,
Miss M

WELL I wad deciding if I should post , respond , I mean I do have an update but not shore I should post it .

I guess what I am trying to say is thats kind of why I said, the other day its hard to post the good , cause I feel judged as if people see the good as a "CONJOB" .

When I read here when a WS acts "GOOD" , people say take the baby steps and go with it .

YES I here, Yes I see what your saying , Yes I understand the anger, Yes this is discoraging .

SOME posts to me and says yur not PLAN A , someone posts and says all you 2 are doing is LB ,

STCK TO A PLAN , well now I try and feel like people are still saying enough is enough.

I thought as of this MONTH after hereing from you and even ORCHID that, that is what I was doing starting from scratch , FINNALLY starting A PLAN AND setting a dead line .

LUVBIRD was saying it all along , I thought there would be set backs , I thought that I was going to have to be strong enough to handle them .I thought I was .

This B!TCH has always wanted my life not new to me , always wanted my family .

SHE has not gotten her way yet . WHEN WILL she , well when HE leaves . After that you can't stop someone from moving on and kids to be apart of it .

ANY WAY I am going to post this and maybe I should just read around here and not post .

He came home at 4:30 am , I was expecting an over nighter so that was ok .

HE woke me up , I was really sleeping and did not even here him come in , LOSTS of hugs and well feeling alot of disappointment from him .

THEN I see the man I know , the fun guy , He says lets go downstairs and make EGGS and toast and coffee , pull out the couch bed and watch some rented movies and stay upn the rest of morning .

We joked around for awhile and talked about it for awhile then well we headed down .

I set bed up and he cooked , I started to help and well we had a great time . WE haven't sleeped on a pull out since my son was born . And we haven't watched the sun come up together for I don't know how long .

NO R talk, no OW talk, just nice .

READING HIM I know I got to him the loose of this is hittting some where in there , ok I know he still went but I know now that PLAN A will get him to think more .

I read a post last night in JFO " H can't stop seeing other women "

Well I read the reponse there and none where what i recieve or what I have recieved . HOPE !!!!!

EXCEPT from MISS M and LUVBIRD , thats ok every one has a different take .

I posted to that person cause I feel for her situation I did not tell her go on forever like that and did express the damage it does .

I already may the mistake of not going by PLAN and now well I felt It was time for that so I can go on knowing I did everything .

I hope work was not to tiring and hope tips where worth the pain you must be in .

ALL in ALL thanks , 2yrs back or so when I was hunting him down trying to firure it all out friends knew and they were there for me but after awhile they just said, why ? give it up? stop this what about you ? kick him to the curb?

I was determined them to get what i wanted , him to admit this A , to have to say it to me .

It happened and took alot out of me , did I feel it was worth it YES .

HE had to face himself .

NOW this had happened , I first 5 months good , but again false recovery I guess yes , he went back into FOG . MY fault yes because then I had more control and allowed bounderies to be broken I LB and sent him write back into her arms .

I had regrets and did not let go cause I feel in my gut I did not do all I could do .

SO now I will feel no REGRETS when this is all said, and done .

SEE you guys around , BE WELL , HEALTH AND HAPPINESS . PRAYERS for you ALL MAY LIFE BE SWEET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,,,3

3,

Hello. Posted last night when I was VERY tired, and issues of my own. Slept in way late as my H is out of town overnite on a gig. Feeling better now, Sorry, please forgive me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

You are doing what you need to do, and you did great when WS came home late, at least he came home and you plan A'd like you said you would.

You are doing what you said you would, and sticking to your plan even tho it is probably pretty hard. Good for you.

And June is only about 6 weeks away, so you plan A your butt off and keep doing what you are doing.

Sorry I vented and was so negative last night, I just really feel for you. I feel your pain.

I am not you. You know your H best and what he needs more than anyone else and you are doing much much better than even 2 weeks ago.

I'm glad everything is calm and good at your house right now, and that is because of you 3, no LB's. You are making good choices that are working for you now.

Keep it up, you are the best. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Praying for you and your family.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Well you had a busy weekend! Sorry I wasn't around--went out of town and met my BIL (H's brother) Saturday and visited friends and saw my sis & BIL yesterday.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He came in crying about his back still , he hurt it 2 weeks ago playing football .(poor baby ) well thats what he did for about 30 min cry about back , so yes alittle sarcasim was nesscery .
I asked him if it hurt while doing gymnastics with his brooklyn trap .
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't feel bad, being the smart@$$ that I am I would have given a similar response. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> want my kids around another women then get a DIVORCE and be gone . I will LB till there is nothing left standing .I am going to explode if he calls and starts about kids. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I completely agree.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well then i started to get kids pj's on and snacks to sit down and watch a movie we got boot leg " CODY BANKS" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SHHHHHHH! Don't tell everybody it's a BOOTLEG! LOL!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is PLAN A now that I am finally getting started easier for the week cause I don't care either way any more .? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wagering a guess on this one--I don't think it's because you don't care (obviously you DO), I think that you've just changed the way you react to it. It doesn't mean you think it's any less wrong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WELL I was deciding if I should post , respond , I mean I do have an update but not shore I should post it .
I guess what I am trying to say is thats kind of why I said, the other day its hard to post the good , cause I feel judged as if people see the good as a "CONJOB" . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't hesitate to post good stuff! Everybody that's been there knows that there can be good days too, it's not all bad all the time. I think anybody that's read your posts knows that you're not naive or blind to the bad stuff. When you have good times, just enjoy them--and like I said, don't hesitate to tell us good stuff too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> HE woke me up , I was really sleeping and did not even here him come in , LOSTS of hugs and well feeling alot of disappointment from him .
THEN I see the man I know , the fun guy , He says lets go downstairs and make EGGS and toast and coffee , pull out the couch bed and watch some rented movies and stay upn the rest of morning .
We joked around for awhile and talked about it for awhile then well we headed down .
I set bed up and he cooked , I started to help and well we had a great time . WE haven't sleeped on a pull out since my son was born . And we haven't watched the sun come up together for I don't know how long .

R talk, no OW talk, just nice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alright! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Times like that make going through this mess worthwhile.

3,

Ignorantly changes my acct hours on line and am looking at a $110.00 bill.

Will try to upgrade on my dinosaur and get some free hours. Will come on to check your posts only. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Hope your are doing well. Even if I won't access much will sure be praying for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Keep me and luvbird updated.

Love you and yours.
Love in Christ,
Miss M

Time to get over myself , I was very hyrt the other day and the 2x4 gave me way to many bumps on my head and I was ashamed of myself and was angry ,was not going to post ,..............BUT I know this is upsetting to others thinging OH MY GOD this women "LOVES ABUSE" NO I really don't I look at it as if I have a strong WILL .

I am DETERMINED , I WANT the trueth out of this man !!!!!!!!!!!! AND I will get it at any cost , Even the destruction of MYSELF . I can heal and fix later if thats the case .

LIKE LOTTO I am in it to win it!!!!!!, I will win back the man I MArried or I will TAKE back MY LIFE for ME . I will either be happy in LOVE with HIM or HAPPY In LIFE alone . One or the other but I will come out of this AOK. WHY? HOW?

Cause I am doing all that it takes to satisfy ME!

With that said, except my apoligies for taking your 2x4 as an attact, I am sensitive some times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But I do want HONEST OPOINS and I do not want anyone to stop posting cause they can't be bruttaly honest ..

SUN. was fine OW called , and thats it we just did what ever and hung out with kids , played watched tvand ect.

MON> starts fine then I was taken off gaurd , USEUALLY I can expect or predict some thing that is going to happen , I knew she would call , but was HIT with well a 2x4 .

She called and he called me right away , she had to go to COURT TUES> and her ride got cancelled at last min . ( not thinking this to be true at all ) They were just in court on tues. last week , I think she would know if she had to go back in a week . Supposedly she was served on fri. and did not mention it to him cause she had worked a ride out and was not going to tell him on fri. night when she saw him cause she did not need him for ride .

Spoke to someone in different court system and they said, it is possiable . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Any who she called and asked him for ride for today !!!!!!!!!! He said , well you know YES , she told him that was it she will never ask again she realizes he just took off tues . a week ago and that she was sorry but in a bind and would NEVER ASK AGAIN !!! (BULLLLLLLL$HHHHHHHHHHHIT)

Well I reacted for a moment then hung up . Let the rest of day flow , he came home she called and was nasty , told him this time be on time tomorrow .( I have been making him late <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Well last night di dnot start off well , cause I had quit attitude and he didn't like it . I also got nasty saying why don't you just leave and give me some piece , H said, thats not what you want and you know it your angry and I understand that ,,,, but when are you going to see you have nothing to worry about , I made my "choice and it is YOU and our M (WAHT????) I am living a lie with all I am telling her and I am NOT doing anything PHISYCAL with her AT ALL I am just making her go away with as little of damage as I possiable can .

She will go away , and we will be fine cause we are meant to be together , PLEASE do not give up on us and just stick this out with me , YOU will see we will be happy and I am truely sorry and I do see it hurting you and know I am causing it and I will and am here for you . TRUST ME !!!

WOW, I was almost on the floor crying with that speech , I do mean "LAUGHING"

TRUST, are THERE FOR ME, WILL MAKE THIS UP TO ME , WILL BE HAPPY .......

Yes , your right I can clearly see you made a CHOICE , to destroy what is left of us, Yes , you did make a CHOICE to hurt me TO save her pain .
YES , you choose to lie , to her to get out of this not having to confront what you choose to do .
AND YES how can I not see your choice to be with her tomorrow , for the sack of our M . You are a model citezen , how noble of you to choose to hurt me so she can be with you for the day , THANK YOU so much for sacrifcing your self for my benifit .

HE SAID, " ARE YOU BEING SARCASTIC" ( who ever calls my H stupid I will 2x4 you myself LOL)

After things calmed down a bit (not really yelling but nasty ))

HE really looked right at me and said, (GET READY FOR THIS ONE SIT DOWN).......... "GOD WILL KNOW TAHT I DID THIS TO TRY AND MAKE UP FOR THE WRONG I DID. I AM HELPING SOMEONE WHO IS REALLY DOWN AND OUT AND HAS NO HELP ." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I FEEL RESPONSIABLE FOR ABANDONING HER !! (WHAT ??????) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> :

GOD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , well I said, Oh please stop there , the ship just landed they want you back on ORK !!

I walked away awhile and said, your cloths will be ready to go tomorrow . HE fell asleep and I packed and put them in garge for morning so when he would get his car he would be on his way .

HE came up to bed , holding me all night saying I love you and will never let you go . ( ok right )
NOT knowing his cloths were there .

THIS morning that SOB came in the house with everything and put it inside and screamed at me and said, DON'T you get it I LOVE YOU and will not leave we will be together and she will GO away now give me a kiss good bye I love you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
NEEDLESS to say HE WAS LATE , from unpacking and said, I don't care but you are going to stand by me cause I love you and I am NOT lying to you I tell you everythig no matter how sick, stupid , or anything it sounds like cause that is what is going on all of it . I am honest and have been since the day I came home , YOU asked for HONEST YOU GOT IT and you know we can make it . You know we got what it takes and we always have gone through everything and did it TOGETHER !!!

He came to kiss me and i just pushed him out the door and said, BUT REMBER WHERE YOUR GOING < WHO YOUR WITH AND WHO MADE THE CHOICE TO BE THERE , Then ask me later if your actions just fit your words .

COMMENTS ?/???????? FFFFFFFFFFOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGG

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3,

Well, as you know my account is screwed up and i haven't been on the internet. Will be charged a lot till May 5, but had to check on you.

I repeat, PLEASE forgive the 2x4. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I was reacting and not helping. It was a reaction vent. I vented against WS. And I know exactly how you feel, except my FWS wasn't as up front as your WS. Hopefully he will be a FWS soon. Different circumstances, but massive information that is hard to process, let alone with your spouse there. Mine was not, so freaking out wasn't always witnessed by H. Sorry if I offended you.

You need to do what is best for you.

Recovery is hard when there is still contact with OW, regardless of what kind of contact it is.

You have your plan A going on now. You are really doing great considering the circumstances.

Be your sweet self 3, and do what is right for you and the children. Protect them, and I know you are. You are a good mom, and a great person, worthy of the best. I pray that it will happen for you, and that you will have the love of your life.

I know its really rough when there is contact with ow. Been there. You are really doing better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just keep it up. Stick with your plan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Praying for you,
Love in Christ,
Martha

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

HEY , MISS M , don't waste your money to check in here , this is one MB lost cause . I know it and well I know those who read know it .

This wiil just takes its corse , I don't think I got it in me time to through in the TOWEL .

I didn't work hard enough at this , not the way i should have from the beging , now theres really nothing left to work at .

He can see her , and live at home until well when ever it is he desides to leave what ever is best for him .

He came in at 11;30pm last night , swares in court allthe time and then at her house for an hour or so .

LB and cryed alot not worth it . I was going to start one more post to WS's but I think all I was looking for was hope .

HE said, he hurts for what he did , to me , to her and to himself .
Says i don't understand the pain he goes through , he did the most terriable thing to a person lied , and gave false hope to yes OW!!!!

be right back 5 min. sorry

MY questioning is this .

FOG? does ws useually feel guilt first for OP ?
IS ws comeing out of fog when they start to feel guilt , remorse for OP? (does that count)

Is it coming out when they are in pain ?
Is it coming out when they are hurting and trying to tell someone about it . ?

I don't know .

All I know are the things he says are pain ful .
He said, why can't you be the best friend I need ?

Why can't you understand all the pain I caused this person ?

I lied to her for over 7mons,built up her confidence , she thought that her crap life had hope now that I was in it , I did that to someone then I left them and they never new the ral me I made everything up I told her I would be there and new I wouldn't . I did a terriable thing and just don't want to cause OW any more pain .

And while I am doing that I am causeing you more pain . I needed to have you understand me .

The only remorse I see is for OW not for me .
H says no , I am remorseful and am guilty for what I did and what I am doing now to you and our family and you have stood by me but you are abusive in the things you say to me accusing me of not being honest and ALL I am trying to do is be honest with you and that hurts you to , so I get frustrated and I want to stay away from you , but I know I am not leaving cause I will fix this .

All i am doing is going in circles , he will not hurt her or sacrifise her pain for mine .

I honestly don't know what to do except let him move on while living here and just be a friend and throw out the love I have for him so I can see him as a persom who is in pain for another women .

The vows and commitment I valued so much don't exsist , maybe they never did .

Maybe he is right , maybe I am missing it .

Maybe in order for him to heel himself he needs to help her achieve happiness .
What ever this is it is clear that unless she is happy he does not feel he deserves to be happy .

This is not about me , I know that is how he feels this is about unresolved issues with him and OW . Until he can put to rest what he has done to her he won't be any use to anyone else .

And no matter what I know he won't put this to rest with her with the TRUETH . HE really feels the only way for himself to feel better is that she makes the decision to move on from him , so he doesn't feel guilty .

I told him I just wish he would have stayed away until he did that . HE admits to being selfish and said, straight out I could not I was loosing you and was going to loose my mind if that happened . So instead I thought it was at a point where it wouldn't take OW that long to move on so I thouhgt we could do it together I needed your support and needed to be with you .

I couldn't stay away any longer .
H said, this sounds so bad you don't understand me at all and I thought you did . I needed some one and never trusted anyone in my personal life except you , so your the one I turned to .

I blew this big time I basicly set myself up for this not being there for him in the manner I should have from beging . I can't find it in me to make any descsion that fits the feeling s in my heart . I don't want D , I want to be here for him in every way he does need someone , but I am selfish and don't know if I can turn this over to faith .

ALL I EVER WANTED WAS HOESTIY what happens now if I got what I wished for and now I was put to the test and now I screwed it all up .?

PLEAE PLEASE PLEASE I would like alot of input .

3,

Can't stay on too long, but wanted to let you know I read your post.

What a mess.

Quit blaming yourself for everything. Your WS made his own choices to lie to ow, etc.

You said you would hang in there till June. I believe you are doing your best, considering the circumstances, which, I have to say, must be really hard.

It will all come out eventually. And what he is doing is not about you. Can't say I agree with your WS choices right now, I can see it is really hurting you.

Plan A, and be the best friend. He has only been home for 2 months, and I think ow will figure it all out sometime. What he does is not about you.

Remember that 3. Just take care of you and the kids the best you can. You are a great person. You have really been going thru it and I feel your pain.

Hope things get a little better, it's all got to come to a head sometime.

Sure WS feels bad, but he has to deal with what he has done, and right now is hurting all of you.

Try to step back and observe, figure out the healthiest way for you, marriage, family to get out of this in one piece, and I mean you in one piece.

You are not responsible for anyone's choices but your own. I know you are doing your best.

Also, remember ow knew WS was married, made her choice. Don't feel bad for her.

Just take care of 3. Am supporting you and praying for you. Yes, I think WS is still in a fog.

Hang in there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

ps. Have to work, will probably check in after 8pm pacific time.

3 - I did not have a chance to go through all the pages in this thread, so I apologize if I plow old ground.

I only have a few minutes.

What does OW know about your H's family? Are you still honoring his threat NOT to tell her anything or he'll divorce you?

It seems you're fixated on trying to figure him out and trying to get the truth out of him. This is futile as long as OW is in the picture. I think you need to get on a calm Plan A and stay there. If he is still holding his threat over you if you contact her, I say call his bluff. This depends on what she already knows.

Does his immediate family know what's going on now? I see in your sig line that you exposed it all before. This is what likely brought him home. If you're helping him to keep his secret, you're helping the affair.

Don't for a minute believe that crap about not wanting to hurt OW. Foglatin.

And don't focus on whether he's foggy, fence sitting, or whatever. Just think of it as an addiction. He's drunk. He's not rational. Ever try arguing with a drunk? Same thing.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...this is one MB lost cause . I know it and well I know those who read know it . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is NOT a lost cause. There are certain good aspects to your situation amidst all the bad--he is still with YOU (that's a BIG one), he says that he wants to work things out. IMO the biggest problem is him not going about ending it with OW and just sitting waiting for it to happen without making the decision to do something about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I didn't work hard enough at this , not the way i should have from the beging , now theres really nothing left to work at . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just because you haven't done a perfect plan A, or feel that doing things differently in the beginning would have been a better option, does not mean you have to give up now. You can recommit to doing the best plan A you can, or whatever plan you think would be best. Just because you may not have done your best then should not mean that you shouldn't start doing your best now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> HE said, he hurts for what he did , to me , to her and to himself .
Says i don't understand the pain he goes through , he did the most terriable thing to a person lied , and gave false hope to yes OW!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is feeling guilt, but not as much for what he did to you as what he did to OW. I think he is under the impression that once things are done with the OW, then that's the end of dealing with her, permanently (which may or may not be the case), but he thinks he has all the time in the world to start fixing things with you, because you will still be there for him. Now, I'm definitely NOT saying this is right, it's just what I think he's thinking. (and I just broke one of the cardinal rules of dealing with the fog--don't ever even try to guess at what's going thru the mind of the WS--lol)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MY questioning is this .
FOG? does ws useually feel guilt first for OP ?
IS ws comeing out of fog when they start to feel guilt , remorse for OP? (does that count)
Is it coming out when they are in pain?
Is it coming out when they are hurting and trying to tell someone about it?
I don't know . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think your guess is as good as mine. I don't think you ever really know that they're coming out of fog until they're actually out of it, because they can show signs of coming out of it and then fall right back in.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> All I know are the things he says are pain ful .
He said, why can't you be the best friend I need ?
Why can't you understand all the pain I caused this person ?
I lied to her for over 7mons,built up her confidence , she thought that her crap life had hope now that I was in it , I did that to someone then I left them and they never new the ral me I made everything up I told her I would be there and new I wouldn't . I did a terriable thing and just don't want to cause OW any more pain .
And while I am doing that I am causeing you more pain . I needed to have you understand me .
The only remorse I see is for OW not for me .
H says no , I am remorseful and am guilty for what I did and what I am doing now to you and our family and you have stood by me but you are abusive in the things you say to me accusing me of not being honest and ALL I am trying to do is be honest with you and that hurts you to , so I get frustrated and I want to stay away from you , but I know I am not leaving cause I will fix this . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is reaching out--he seems to really be in pain. It's hard to help the person that has caused you so much pain, I know. What I tried to do was temporarily put my pain aside and discuss just his side of the situation with him. It wasn't easy, but I think it was a big help to him, and I really think it impressed him that while I was so hurt, I could still be there for him without lashing out, or minimizing his pain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I honestly don't know what to do except let him move on while living here and just be a friend and throw out the love I have for him so I can see him as a persom who is in pain for another women . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is not moving on. He has stayed at the same point he is now for quite a while. But, you can still try to be his friend and confidant. When he wants to talk, just listen and don't LB or try to change the conversation to be about you (I know it's hard). Respond to him logically (but don't expect him to always see things logically).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe in order for him to heel himself he needs to help her achieve happiness. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that he probably does feel that way. Problem is, as long as he strings her along, she does not have the opportunity to seek happiness. Not to mention that in trying to appease her, he is immensely hurting you, and apparently himself in the process.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What ever this is it is clear that unless she is happy he does not feel he deserves to be happy . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He feels responsible for her happiness. And he feels guilt for her pain, because he feels he is the one solely responsible for it. What he doesn't realize is that she holds more responsiblity for her happiness and pain than he does. She knew he was married--I doubt she was truly naive enough to think that he would just up and leave you and they would live happily ever after. And another thing he's not realizing is that by prolonging the whole situation, he is also prolonging her pain. So basicall, in trying to avoiding causing her more pain, he is actually doing just that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I blew this big time I basicly set myself up for this not being there for him in the manner I should have from beging . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And if your H had had enough self-control to keep it zipped you wouldn't be in this situation either. You didn't think whatever problems you had before would lead to this, and probably didn't know the best ways to fix them. Don't beat yourself up over "what-if"s, and don't feel guilty for his mistakes. Above all, DO NOT take responsibility for the A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can't find it in me to make any descsion that fits the feeling s in my heart . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Naturally. What you really want is based on the actions of you AND H, and you have no control over what he does, just how you react to it. For things to go as you want, H has to decide to work on things as well.

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: luvbird ]</small>

Hi , all thank you WAT , I really apprechate you dropping by this way , just wanted to pick your brain a bit . Have a great trip!!!

Luvbird , as always you give me calm rational hope , I really see things the way you said, in most respects. I don't blame myself for his A . (never did) I just blame myself for not living up to what I did promise him . That is what made sense last night in the process of everything .

I throw up in his face the promises he made to me in coming home , but the things I said, he was right . I did say I wanted HONESTY and he told me all along I was not going to understand it . I did say I would be there for him (best friend ) , for I know him better then anyone because he never let anyone in like me .

You know what there is a holiday and I knew it was going to be hard ,it always is . Thats when she really attacts and he goes nuts becomes a real basket case .

This is the part of him well that flips me out .

He shut emotion down better the anyone I know .

Well this hole A has ripped in to him like only very few things I have seen . When he can't consintrate I know he is really bothered .

AND HOLIDAYS runs high ,,this week and it is going to he!! already ..

HE saw her yesterday (court and after) , He is seeing her tonight (wend) , He will see her fri. and I can for see SAT> night will be the BIG one .

He probbly will do the OVER NIGHT thing ..

OK MISS M calm down women don't fall off the seat LOL .

I worry about you stressing over this to much when you read LOL . I can't be feeling guilty thinking about you wanting to 2x4 me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There goes that humor again , Hey LUVBIRD , one day we need to disect my post and do a sarcastic comment post on every thing WS said, I mean I could lb and be so sarcastic it is so hard to hold back .

Well so I made wend . night my offecial McDONALD night with my kids , I mean we been doing it long enough.LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Then we picnic the food in the living room , watch diney channel . Showers , play cards and watch TV again .

Tonight they want to pull out the bed and sleep down stairs sounds like a plan no SCHOOL tomorrow so we sleep late <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WELL , this is always long , but no LB today at all even when he talked about her and seeing her tonight . He made a comment that she will be gone after EASTER , I didn't relly bight in on that except to say I think your not thinking clearly and as a freind I think you need to seriously reconcider what ? where? and who ? you want to be with . I love you , and TRY not to get to stressed out tonight . H said, I lOVE YOU , this week will be from hell and I know you will be in alot of pain because of what I am doing and I am sorry . (what ever)

got to go guys , I'LL BE BACK LOL

3,

Please listen to WAT comments. Certainly seems to be able to communicate better than I.

Me? Just trying to be there for you. Don't always have answers.

ANSWER WAT ? about ow and what she knows about your situation, etc.

It's going to be a rough week. Listen to everyone else, read and read again.

I agree with WAT. Call that bluff. Have been trying to tell you that for awhile now. Not the best communicator, I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just want you to know I pray for you. There IS a God, and He does answer prayers. Please understand that. Sorry if I stress. Sometimes it is too close to what I went thru.

But... I do have a sucessful recovery!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Love and prayers, will check in tomorrow before I go to work. Work double shifts Wed thru Sat.

Hang in there!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

ps. Prayer works. Trust in God. Ask Him what to do, and then read that Bible. I know you are Catholic, but NIV version is extremely comprehensible, in modern language.

YOU are great MISS M , You and others have told me about contacting OP , from what I rember very few said, not to contact OP.

Ok , I am sorry , I am not ready for that one yet.

NOt in fear of D , NOt in fear of him fINALLY LEAVING , Not in fear of him hating me .....

I can not confront till THIS M is over FOR ME .

DO you get it , I don't know if I am explaining it right . I think me and LUVBIRD talked along time ago about this .

I need to be at peace with that one , my husband has a BAD temper and I don't fear it but I would have to be ready for it .

He will cut his noise to spight his face .

This is the type of person he is , and also I know HE is not bluffing , once I exposed A the first time he was so ashamed and embaressed.

He almost could not look family and freinds in there face , I was one of the hardest parts of coming home .
He always says to this day that he holds that very much against me that I told EVERYONE (even mail man LOL )

He always said, from day he walked back in that it was always a probblem in M I would talk about our life with the world and he always hated it (HE did that was true)
SO one of the things was our life stays private , our personal life and we lean only on one another .

I will blow A out when I know I am ready to take it all on .

so sorry if anyone is offended and feel that if I don't then this will never end , well thanks for the advice and I agree but I am not just ready yet .

I am ok , and sometimes I crack up, and sometimes are still the worst nights of my life , but theres a reason for it all . I don't know yet , and may never know what it was ... but I am sure however I end up thats the way it was meant to be . As long as I am true to me , and don't do anything until I am ready to . Till I feel sure ,

3,

I understand what your stated on your post. I Really understand.

A big deal for them. (WS) My inlaws don't know and don't know that they ever will. It just might be too much for FWS.

Really wierd, but the truth.

Prayers, PRAYERS.

And you still haven't answered Worth A Try's questions. Would like to see that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Martha

I need to post tonight MISS M , Luvbird any others I am loosing it and need support to move on .

Ok , this week is he!!, FIRST WAS NOT ABLE TO POST CAUSE KEYBOARD BROKE and H has been out with OW so much that he did not check problem .

The nuts on him not knoing how bad I need MB .lol

Ok so why am I going crazy I posted earlyer in week that I knew how the week would be NUTS with this "SITUATION " as my H would prase it .

As I predicted TUES.OW till 12am, WEND. OW 1am, FRT.OW 7am , now I am home and yes SAT......., don't know but can't say it will be good .

H tells me this is coming to a close and I wish I could belive his lies but can't bring myself to by into him .

That could be a problem if there is any trueth to this $hit .

Made many mistakes , I definately think I should have saw a DOC. by now for meds.

I did not PLAN A at all and totally to much ow talk , I was absorbed , consumed, absested, everythig you name it I screwed it up .

This was not a good week to fall off the wagon sort a speaking .

Ow was LB'ing and driving H crazy , this is when I needed to make the imprestion and failed .

I am going through this for so long and want to kick myself in the A$$ cause I can't get to this PLAN A or anything right and have caused this to take much longer then neccesary .

My constant anger for this OW is always in my way , not letting him own his own A and always being a part of it is terriable .
I am to involved with them , the detailes and whats worse is I know the details are probbly BUll$hit .
I did not and have not lrft him with any good impretion of me or us , before he saw her at all .

I went from half baked to stick a fork in me I am done crazy over the top .

I never beg its not my problem , but I am whinning then screamming then crying for answers .
I am arguing with logic that I know is wrong cause he is not logical .

I am competing and comparing myself to OW , and worse then that I am making DAMNADS .
I SAT THERE TODAY and insisted he feel my pain , see my hurt , make it go away .

WHAT was I thinking ? I know everything I was doing was so backwards . Can't argue with a drunk,(thats what WAT said ) Well I found myself doing it and expecting to come out with a gold metal or something .

He sat with me to talk , he wanted to here it all and was giving answers I did not want to here those I wanted my answers I wanted him to say what I was thinking and every time he opened his mouth I shot him down .

He was telling me he really felt OW had enough and was on the edge with this holiday she was demanding every thing from him she wanted my kids to come for easter (WACKO)

He told her HE!! NO I am not even your boyfreind why should I subject my kids to you . ?

She was answering with well You are not aloud to bring your kids around a friend and you have no where to take them so here is as good a place as any . AND then I will belive you have nothing to hide from me .

He was fighting her tooth and nail all week (he knows that won't happen & said he never intended it to ) but this is what she is goin on about .

He kept telling me this is working hang in there she says I am a piece if crap and does not want to be bothered even wasting her energy on me cause torturing me now is even getting on her nerves .

I am so ashamed of him not telling her the trueth . I have very little respect for him for handling this like this .

For more then just OW , FAMILY , AND most of all how can someone want to protect themselves from looking like scum so much that they sacrifies there spouses feeling so much .

The sickness is in me , I care that I see this man hurting & care about that .
I feel his pain ,& care about it .
I want him happy & want to help him .
I am disapointed that I am part of the pain .
I am upset that I feel I am being selfish not to stop wanting my pain saw long enough to help him .

With all this SOB has done to me I don't think I am doing enough to help nhim . And I am angree at myself for that .

OH man I really have lost it , I could just kick myself in my A$$ that she right now can be consoling him or having a rational talk with him and all he got from me was screaming .

why does this have to be so F'in hard . ?

OK I am venting , pitying myself , anyone carew to ofer anything . PLAESE I got to get through this night .

COMMENTS PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MISS M where are you , LUVBIRD who told U 2 to have a life ??? LOL