JohnnyB:

Be careful!!! Don't let this negativity overwhelm you. It CAN. All too easily, I would add.

Don't forget the success of the convo the other night. Focus on that and keep moving forward here.

-Qfwfq

Thanks Qfwfq.

I try to hold on to the hope. I really do. I want this to work. Her responses (or complete lack thereof) just really get me down.

*$(*& Fog... It needs to die

I still have the good memories of our times together, and hold dearly to them when I feel the most down. Old photo albums help too. Remembering helps. Thats why I made sure to bring up the 'good ole days' during our talk and keep it in focus.

I'm to the point where I've put the relationship in God's hands. There's nothing more I can really do at this point. Only God and his movements on my WW's heart will bring us any closer.

JohnnyB,

I didn't mean to scold you for being too mushy...I also feel like a hopeless romantic...only I don't show it, I interalize it. That's why my W was unhappy, but I digress.

What I am trying to say is that you may want to consider plan B. You have laid your feelings out on the table. She knows you love her, I don't know how wouldn't get that idea from your conversation with her. The conversation was a GOOD thing. You showed her you loved her.

The problem is, if you over-pursue, (and only you can know what that point is), she will realize that no matter what she does, you will think the same towards her, and she will continue to do what she wants.

I'm a bit biased on this, so take my words with a grain of salt. My W's affair started sometime a little over a year ago, and I found proof in August. I tried plan A as best I can the whole time, and she still moved out on Sunday. I feel much stronger, but I wish I would have stood up for myself much earlier.

Time will tell, but I'm just offering a word of caution about too much pursuit of her...

JohnnyB:

I think hoping4best's advice is worth considering, but all too many people misapply plan A/plan B.

h4b: I don't know your situation, but do you have kids? It sounds like you had a much better opportunity to do a plan A for the past several months before she left, so you're in a better position than JohnnyB is right now to begin plan B.

JohnnyB's sitch is one of those, like Alostsoul's, where they don't have kids. In these cases it's riskier to plan B the WS, especiallly when they just move out and THEN the BS finds out about the A. It's also not been very long since she moved out. I think JohnnyB should keep working on his "remote" plan A for some months more. And, with any luck, this last convo with his W is a sign of more to come. More chances for him to show her his love for her.

All my best,
-Qfwfq

Thanks Qfwfq and hoping4best.

Being as the last time I talked to WW, she began discussing divorce, I really fear going to plan B now would be a HUGE mistake. It's been a lil bit over a month since she moved out, and I've plan A'd the best I can during that time. I will keep with the plan A, keep with my gym schedule, keep going to church, keep praying, and keep reading/studying.

With no kids and her asking for divorce, Plan B would be giving her exactly what she wants. I have to outlast OM. Be here when things start to turn bad for them. And in the meantime, do whatever I can to remind her of what we had together. I'm hoping she'll open communications with her parents again and try to be semi-civil with them. They reallly want to see her and me back together, so I think getting their relationship repaired would be a very good thing for our marriage.

I'm afraid of the kind of timelines I hear everyone else talking about. I've been through about a month of this, another 5 or so seems almost impossible to bear. I'm determined to try my best, I just don't know how far that will take me.

Still havn't heard from WW.. When I closed her car door as she was leaving, she said she "I'll call you later"... so I'm definatly going to hold out for her to make the next phone call. I just figured I would have got it by now.

I know she's going to regret this.. Maybe not this week.. maybe not this month.. or this year... But she IS going to regret this. When the fog clears and she can see what she's done, she's going to hate herself. I just have to keep up the strength and faith until that happens. Which means I plan on dumping my emotions out here on MB. It's one of the best tools for keeping my sanity, so far that I've found.

And hearing your responses to my rantings and ravings is all that more calming.

hoping4best: I didn't take your comment as 'scolding'. I was just letting you know my deepest nature is of a romantic. How else could I win my wife over the first day we met by a kiss on the hand?

Qfwfq: No, we have no children, although I want them deeply. Every time I'm out and see a baby it makes me teary eyed.. All of this started the day I told my WW I was ready to make a baby with her. I may not have my WW any more, but I still want a baby.

Q,

I have no kids, I'm 23 and so is W. Plan A obviously came without success. I really liked the post in Luki's thread (by Mortarman???) that talked of the dance of infidelity. It was posted in it's own thread. Every BS should read it.

You may be right, it may be too early for plan B, in the sense of a total cutting of contact. I guess showing her the plan A is probably best, but not over-pursuit to the point where the appearance of desparation is given (does that make sense?).

h4b:

Absolutely!

JohnnyB:

I admire your attitude! Your W is going to thank you someday!

-Qfwfq

Sitting here in my office, browsing through MB and just got a phone call from MIL.

She's got the day off work and called my WW to ask if she wanted to meet for lunch. WW already has lunch plans with one of her aunts. But, they're going to have dinner together this evening. MIL is hoping that the 2 of them will finally have a heart-2-heart talk about their relationship, since it seems to have split the same time our marriage split.

I really hope the 2 of them can work things out. I think my MIL getting close to my WW again would realllly help me out.

MIL said she would call me tonite and let me know how the dinner goes.

Let us know how the dinner turned out.

Hopefully, your MIL will not give the WW the impression that everyone is against her. Your W is probably very lonely and doesn't need everyone against her against the OM. That could play right into his hands.

Stay strong, you seem to be holding up well.

Dinner Results? Not that hot..

Just more of my WW's classic "Chit Chat"..

They talked about work.. people from her home town that got married, people we went to school with, etc. etc..

MIL asked what she should do with her life.. Said that she felt like her life was completly different now. Everytime she went shopping before, she would look for nick-nacks or something for us and our home, or clothes my WW would like.. Now, she doesnt want to do that, because she doesnt want to buy ANYTHING that will go to OM's house.

She also talked about seeing a couple today of a younger girl and older man, and commented about how 'wrong' it looked (WW = 24, OM = 38).

She then talked about how she wishes she would have had kids when she was younger, and how difficult it is to be an older parent (trying to point out OM isn't daddy-material) and then asked WW if she was still planning to have kids.. WW said "Yes, someday.." (Again, the whole base argument 6 months ago that leads to this point BEGAN with a fight over when to have children, her wanting them NOW, me wanting to wait).....

MIL told WW "I Miss You"...
WW replied "I Miss You Too"...

Then WW told MIL about her weekend plans.. Going to Bristol on sunday w/ OM for the Races.. Aparantly OM is into Nascar...

I don't know why, but the thoughts of them doing things together, ANY THINGS, tear me up.. The more they do, the less special it makes our past seem.. Like they take a trip, so it makes our trips seem not-so-special..

MIL wants to open communications with WW, but not very gently.. She basically wants to "Shake her and make her open her eyes".. said she plans to take off another day next week and go to lunch, and not give the opportunity for chit-chat, hitting her directly with the questions she has. MIL is loosing patience with WW, and my suggestions to try and not push don't seem to get through.

Now, I sit here with a large bowl of Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Ice Cream, trying to lift my spirits. I know I have to give all my problems over to God and let him take care of them, ESPECIALLY since they are all problems I can do nothing about.

(*$^%&^ Fog.. I hate it..
I will literally dance and sing with joy the day WW realizes OM is a old, fat good-for-nothing pig just using her.

Put down the ice cream!!! I would hope you already have since it was 9 last night when you posted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Can I offer a word of advice? Try to get out and do something on these weekend evenings. I did much the same thing for a few months (sitting around and eating and browsing the boards), and I would get more depressed browsing the boards when I felt like I should have been out having fun with my W. You don't have to go out and party...I know that's probalby the last thing you want to do right now...just go to the gym or try to meet some friends. Anything to keep your mind off of her. Last night, I went to a local ice rink and practiced skating and played some pick-up hockey. It helped because I made it through the evening without hardly thinking of her. At the same time, I wasn't out doing things that could cause future problems in the event that she comes home.

Your MIL seems like she may be pressuring your W. I know she is only trying to help, but she may cause some problems.

Keep your spirits up. I know that it hurts to know your W is out with someone else. You made a lifetime committment to her, and you are probably wondering if she meant the same. I don't have any magic words, but my heart goes out to you. This is the toughest time during all of this because you feel powerless. Stay strong, you'll get through this.

I agree with you that your MIL pushing can cause problems. Nobody likes to be told what to do by their Mom.

On the other hand, I think it is helpful for her to realized that she will lose closeness with her family - that there is a cost if she follows this path.

Playing the age issue may not be very helpful.

Age isn't the real issue and trying to use it will just push your W to prove that it is not important. I don't think age makes a man "not daddy material" - and I don't think you are going to persuade your W of that either - especially since you say you don't want kids now. Most women at some time find that they very intently want to become a mother. Some don't, of course. Most find it to be an incredibly difficult and exhausting role - but they still want it. If your W has that intense desire and you are blocking her from being a Mom, that certainly would be a major source of unhappiness. If OM says that he wants kids and that is important to your W, that could be a deciding factor.

The real issue for you is being (or becoming) the man she wants to spend her life with. Since you married so young, you have spent a significant percentage of your lives together. You did a great job a few days ago reminding her of the good times. Keep up the good work. You are strong. You can do it.

But, if being a Mom is a very high priority for her, and you are reluctant to be a Dad, that could be a show-stopper for you. You need at least to be open - to listen to her. If you really just want to wait, then you can show her that you are serious by reading parenting books - preparing yourself for the role of father - so that she can see that it is not "no", but just "not yet".

I'm sure things will come up that she will not like about OM. She's going to have to find them on her own. She trusts you. Maybe she thinks that OM is trustworthy too just because you have been. When she starts to find out things about him that surprise her, she will start to think.

Meanwhile, you need to just keep on being your best.

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AD:
<strong>
I'm older than your W's OM and we have a 2-year-old and probably will have more. I don't think age makes a man "not daddy material" - and I don't think you are going to persuade your W of that either - especially since you say you don't want kids now. Most women at some time find that they very intently want to become a mother. Some don't, of course. Most find it to be an incredibly difficult and exhausting role - but they still want it. If your W has that intense desire and you are blocking her from being a Mom, that certainly would be a major source of unhappiness. If OM says that he wants kids and that is important to your W, that could be a deciding factor.

-AD</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do want to be a daddy. That's how this all started. She wanted it, and I said I wasn't ready.. But within a few weeks, I had a change of heart and felt ready! It was too soon, and she said my sudden change of heart was a *Slap in the Face*.

She's wanted children since we were first married. I kept trying to convince her we needed to get out of college and get stable income/insurance/home first. We got that, and I still didn't feel quite ready.. We fought... She gave up and said we'd wait... a few weeks later, I was ready and told her... I changed gears too fast for her, and hurt her emotions in the process.. That led to the 5 month long cold war fight that ended with her in the arms of another man.

I am fully prepared to be a father. I would love to have a child already. Once I told her that, I've been getting more and more anxious about it. So no, the issue isn't that OM is more willing. I'm the one who bought her a pregnancy book on our 4 year wedding anniversary and told her I am ready. (Although, it's important to say that the day I told her I am ready was the last day we made love)

As far as the age issue, MIL was the one pushing it, not I. I agree that MIL is pressuring, and I'm trying to talk her out of it.. But she's growing frustrated with my WW and pretty much wants to knock some sense into her.

Getting out? I've never been busier! Gym 5-6x a week. Church Wednesdays and Sundays (performance w/ choir tonite). Church Choir.. Church Drama/Mime Troupe.. Walks to the park.. Got a few friends about 300 miles away asking me to come spend a weekend sometime to walk on the beach and get away for a day or 2.. I do my best at staying busy. Last night after my ice cream, one of my college buddies came over and spent the night. We stayed up till 3 a.m. watching movies and 'chewing the fat'.

I'm a survivor. It's hard, and it hurts beyond belief, but I'm making it. My next big life step? Buying a old used motorcycle and learning what it feels like to rush down the highway, wind in my face. Something I always wanted to do. And since I currently have NO long-term plans set, may as well jump on it, no?

Time now to run. Tanning apointment in 15 mins, then got to be at the church within another hour.

Your coments are, as always, appreciated. Thanks to all who have posted your thoughts and ideas, and PLEASE keep them coming. Hearing your words helps me through each day.

May god form our hearts,
Transform our minds,
Conform our will to his.

Sounds good that you are staying busy!!! That was the impression I got from your earlier posts. Don't know why, but I got a bad impression from your post that you were just sitting around and eating...

Sounds like you are doing good. Keep on moving, and you'll get through this...

MIL called today.. WW was over visiting them last night after work.

There were only a few comments made relationship wise.. MIL told WW that people had been asking about us, and MIL didn't know what to tell them. WW told her "Just tell them we're not together now". MIL asked WW if there was any chance of us getting back together. WW was slient for a minute or so... then said "No, I don't think there is."

A little later, MIL told WW that talking to me monday really helped me, and told her that she thinks I've changed a lot. WW agreed that I've changed. MIL then told my WW that she's afraid WW is throwing all her dreams of a close family and children away. WW then said that OM wants children too. MIL expressed concerns that OM isn't really well suited to be a father..

FIL then walked in, and they don't talk around FIL, so that's where it ended. WW went home last night, and today is supposed to be at the races with OM in Bristol.

Now, I'm questioning if there is any hope left.. They're already talking about having children <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> They just met the verrry first time 6 months ago... According to her, the A has only been going on 1½ months, and they're talking kids already!!! The Dr. took WW off of birth control pills in December (they were causing migranes) so it reallllly wouldn't take much for her to get pregnant.

This whole mess started over and argument between us about when to have childern. I am ready to be a dad now (if the marriage is fixed).. Have been for a while now. But part of what's attracting her to OM is that he's wanting to be a dad too. I'm starting to wonder if I wouldn't be better to just walk away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JohnnyB:
<strong>I'm starting to wonder if I wouldn't be better to just walk away.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you walk now, you won't be able to forgive yourself. It is hurtfull to hear what WW says and actually it might be even usefull not to know about MIL/FIL and WW conversation. I implement NC with my Ex, what some people refer it as plan C. Not for her to get back or to punish her but to minimize my hurt. Ex still my source of pain and what cames out from her mouth is still hurt ... I don't even want to be the same room ... not for her but for me.

-rh-

You are too soon to just walk away. I don't understand your W's actions, I don't understand my W's actions either.

Scary that she would already be discussing kids with someone she met 6 months ago. Nothing is logical at this point.

Keep busy, and take your mind off of everything. Show your W that you have changed...

A little of my story, my W sent letters to her parents about the whole affair, etc. Her dad and step-mom were accepting of her and will support her. Her mom, however, must have given her a very rough time, too. W remarked, "that's what I get for telling the truth". Bottom line, mom is too critical of actions to receive truth from her kids. Her mom went a year without speaking to an aunt because she disapproved of aunt's pregnancy (she's in 30s and married). I tried not to take any sides in this whole thing.

I now have the task of letting my parents know what is going on...I am dreading this. No one in my family, with the exception of a cousin of mine, has been divorced, so I'm heading into fairly uncharted waters. Probably going to do this over email...don't want to get drawn into long conversations at this time...I've lived this thing for the last year, and I am sick of the whole situation.

Today feels a little better. In all honesty, last night I thought I had hit rock bottom.. no hope left.

Today? Well, there's a lil hope there, but not much. She's living with him, talking divorce, they're talking kids.. She's already said the only reason she's waiting and not pushing the divorce is because she hopes the time will give me a chance to accept it and agree with her.

I'm starting to feel a certain amount of healing.. I see that I can live without her.

Do I want to? No.. I still want her to come home.
Do I think she's going to? Not really.. Chances seem soo slim that she'll come around, I feel like it's pretty hopeless.

This is the balancing act I've been on the past few days.. From hopeless to just a lil hope.. Right along the edge.. I keep praying, and know I've got lots and lots of people praying for me. But it seems things are still just going down and down hill.

Stuff like this makes me angry...Why can't your wife treat you like an adult and just file if that's what she wants? If she really wants a divorce, she should just do it and stop the games.

Hang in there...I know, it is a rough time. You WILL make it through this. It sounds like you have a good support group around you that are helping you.

I hope things improve in your situation...

Sitting here at work, WW finally called like she said she would. Just plesant chit-chat.. About work, family, friends, 'What's Been Up' stuff.

Aparantly her trip to the races was fun for her. She says she's hooked now. Yipee. Another bond for her and OM.

Asked how my parents were doing.. my family.. cousin in the Navy.. How my church choir performance went last weekend.. Said that some paperwork for a car my parents recently purchased went by her desk (the bought it from a dealer within the chain) and she saw some incorrect info on the papers that she fixed. When she saw it, she told one of the other people in accounting "That's my in-laws! This isn't their address.. it's missing a 3". So at least she's still publicly claiming to her workmates that she is married.

Didn't really volunteer any real info other than she's really tired, finally got some relief at work and 'It's all starting to catch up to me'. Said she talked to her mom for on the phone for about an hour last night, and is planning to go down there for dinner this evening.

I'm glad to see the two of them talking again. I hold very little hope now that she's going to give our relationship another chance, so I'm glad to at least see them getting close again. Figure I'll call MIL to check up with her.. Havn't hear from her since Monday.

Step. Breath. Step. Step. Breath.
Keep Moving. Keep Living.