Yep,

sorryyy bout the keyboard skillsss got a few digits m,issing

Digger

MG you are getting great adivce!

What the OM is giving you is very intoxicating. I know.Its not been that long since my A, I remember the way OM looked at me, the casual touching I did ( very casual it was infront of my H). Its been much longer for me then you , LOL since I had that kind of Male attention from anyone since my H.

you said before what you wrote was ridiculous. Don't ever demean your feelings.It;s not/ I wish I had came here when i was still just having an EA, my life would be different now.

Throw yourself into your family. Get involved with the key volunteers or volunteer your time with Navy relief or the red cross. You need to get out . DO NOT see Om again. You need to tell him to not come around. Tell him its not appropreate, you are a married woman, he should hang out with single women, not a DET widow.

MG,
I happened to read your locked threads from EN last week, and, given some of the details there, you aren't taking care to prevent an affair. You met a MB guy for lunch, and obviously he is way complimentary to you, enough that he got a moderator admonishment.

Maybe he isn't the OM, but whoever the OM is, as a married woman, you are spending to much time talking with him, if he feels free enough to touch you, even casually.

Do you know anything about body language? Touching another person during conversation is a way of creating intimacy and bonding...so this guy is already crossing boundaries.

My H was in Desert Storm, gone for 7 months while I was home with 2 preschoolers, I understand your loneliness and the temptations that come along, but your husband is off doing his job. Is it so much for you just to remain faithful until he returns and you can truly evaluate your marriage?

I've gathered you don't like being told that you are young, but...I have a beautiful daughter 3 years younger than you and see her creating strict boundaries with males to safeguard her options for her future.

Your actions are in your control.

And, even if your H is making crummy decisions, your honor belongs to you.

Thank you all for the advice. Digger, I'm so sorry about what happened to you. I wish you the best of luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you aren't taking care to prevent an affair. You met a MB guy for lunch...
Maybe he isn't the OM, but whoever the OM is, as a married woman, you are spending to much time talking with him, if he feels free enough to touch you, even casually. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Obviously I'm not doing the right thing. I don't think that was ever in question. And no, the man from MB is not the OM. Not in the least. Actually, I technically only spent about a week with him. He lives out of state and recently was in town where I saw him again. I know I'm not setting proper boundaries. I guess I don't have the motivation to. My M was not perfect when my H left for overseas. It's not as if we were very close and I'm just getting sick of waiting so I'll go find someone else. It's not like that at all. I know marital circumstances- however bad they may be, do not give anyone the right to have an affair. But it WASN'T good, not even close, and I'm NOT just getting impatient and unable to control myself. I can wait for as long as it takes for him to come back as long as I have motivation to. I guess that's why I started this thread, because I've lost all motivation to do the right thing. I have a lot of hatred and resentment toward my H at what he has put me through (there are details I have not ever mentioned here) and I don't know how to deal with that. 30% of me wants our M to work out, the other 70% just wants, needs relief. I have been the only one who cares enough about out M to put any work into saving it, even though he's been the one who did all of the destorying for so long. And now I don't care anymore. So where does that leave us? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ April 07, 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: marriedgirl ]</small>

mg,

Follow the Dr. Harley mantra and tell your H of these feelings for OM. Radical honesty is the key here.

Take care.
-Luki

marriedgirl,

for one look at your screen name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Three months ago I was in your same situation. My lovely wife was distant and I felt like I didn't matter at all to her. Her contact with OM would stop and start. I, as someone put it earlier, was burnt out and starved for attention, affection and contact with another person. I had a PA. Felt good for a little while until that OH-SH#T moment hit. MLW suspected after she found the cellphone bill she asked but by that time it had been over with so like a scared little boy hiding from the truth I lied. Well eventually it cam back around and bit me in the butt. When MLW found out, all the efforts over the last 9 months I had made to strengthen our marriage suddenly meant absolutely nothing. She questioned the sincerity of my entire person and every positive change I had made to better myself as a person. I know that they are real but it might be too late for her to buy that.

MLW had struggled with NC with OM and her commitment to our marriage. She no longer has to struggle, because my A and me lying about it has given her the perfect opportunity to go.

The affair was very temporary fix for my lonliness. The guilt and remorse far outweighs any pleasure I derived from it. I consider this to be the worst mistake I have ever made and I got some whoppers out there.



Don't do it.

<small>[ April 07, 2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: d_rose ]</small>

Marriedgirl,

You sound EXACTLY like my wife. if you can go back and look at my previous posts over the last 9 months, you can see what happened. I am the BS. my wife had an affair that just recently ended. it started while I was on deployment right after 9/11.

Our marriage (ten years this week) was marked by two periods. the first 5-6 years were GREAT We were close, having our kids...building our life. Over the last four to five years, though, many things began to intercede into our lives. As I said, you can go back and read my story. but what I want to say is that over this time, I began to pull away from my wife, meeting her needs less and less. Over time, then she began to pull back also and my needs stopped being met. The downward spiral began!

By the time I left for Bosnia in September 2001, we were in REAL trouble. my wife was just starting nursing school (she finishes in three weeks!), we had financial troubles, she had the three kids to take care of AND I was leaving for 7 months. Not only had she begun to feel lonely while I was there, when I left...she felt abandoned. In stepped the OM. Even today, as my wife and I are just starting recovery, she will tell you several things about the beginning of the affair. first, she says that at the time...she was done with the marriage. Or so she THOUGHT. This was a rationalization she made because she was so incredibly lonely, confused and completely beaten down by school, finances, kids, me in a combat zone, etc. So, when OM started showing attention to her in the gym, it was like water near a dry sponge. the fog came rolling in and her fantasy land began.

She will tell you at first, it was exciting. For the first time in a few years, she felt like someone wanted her, was paying attention to her. He could talk to her, be with her...and take the stresses away of her marriage and life. As I told her (and the OM when I talked to him), I created the OM. If it wasnt for me and my actions prior to leaving on deployment, the OM would have NEVER had a chance! But being gone, I had no way to fight for my marriage, no way to meet many of her needs, even if I wanted to. And this guy took advantage of the situation.

In the end, my wife is now understanding that the OM was only being selfish, just as she was being selfish. The OM could care less about her, because he was willing for her to have her family destroyed, her husband possibly destroyed, her kids destroyed..all to get her into his life. She was selfish because she was willing to give up EVERYTHING...even the possibility of losing her children...in order to get these needs met. this goes to show us how powerful what the Harleys teach her really is. If those top 5 needs are not met consistently, we will get to the breaking point (and each persons breaking point is different), where we are willing to do ANYTHING to stop the pain. Think of those people that jumped out of the World Trade Center. they faced a burning fire and chose to escape that pain by jumping out at 100 stories up. Not rational thinking to be jumping out of a 100 story building, but when faced with an inferno and that much pain...what options did they have? You will do ANYTHING to stop the pain.

Unlike these people, you have options. Like these people, you can choose to "jump" into another relationship. And at first, it can be very exhilerating. the winds rushing through your hair...your hearts pumping. But understand, as my wife now understands...the bottom will come up! And when it does, the pain from that landing will pale in comparison to what you are feeling now. And ask any WS on this site...and BS...that pain (scars) will always be there.

You now have a choice my wife no longer has. She has said over and over during our recovery that she wishes she could go back to August 2001. She said her choices would be so different. But there are no time machines. Once you do this MG, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle. One thing I am sure of is that even though I am confident that my wife and I are going to have our marriage back better than ever, we both are understanding that we will forever be in recovery. We will never be able to forget. It will lessen. But it will never go away.

One note about the OM. My wife was pursuing a serious relationship. She really "believed" at the time that this guy would replace me…and probably be her new husband. By your posts, you say that you are looking for nothing serious. If this is true, then this is where you are different from my wife's situation. But that may not always be. Once sucked in by the fantasy that the OM is providing for you, you will fall in love. And then you will forever be an "addict." This what you want? Listen to the other WSs on here. I just recently got my wife a screen name on here and I hope she will post to you. And she will tell you what she knows about OPs. So, if in the end, you end up getting serious with this guy, or even if you don't…is this the kind of guy you would want in your life? Is this the kind of guy you want in your child's life? What kind of example are you setting for your daughter? I want you to know that our daughter will forever be affected (she is 8 now) by the actions of my wife over the last two years. You want that for your daughter? What kind of man is the OM? He is an adulterer…or soon to be one. He places no value on marriage, vows, family…ESPECIALLY your family! And you know what? No matter how nice he talks and converses with you…he really has no respect for YOU. What kind of woman, in his eyes, would be willing to give up everything she has and be with him? Some of my best MB friends on here are WSs. I do not mean to demean them here. But I think they will tell you the exact same thing…that the OP could care less about your honor, your dignity, your family…your life. They want what they want…they give up nothing…you give up everything. And remember, if they'll do it WITH you…they'll do it TO you.

The OM is not an option or way out of your problems. With your husband gone on deployment, it will only allow you to live in a fantasy world until he returns. And then, not only will your old problems be there, but you will have a whole host of new ones. And these new problems will make the old ones seem like nothing. My wife even said in the middle of the affair that the worst days of the marriage were BETTER than what she was living once I came home and she moved out to be with OM.

I am not minimizing your feelings, nor am I saying that you should just sit back and let your husband treat you badly. I KNOW where you are. I am fully aware of what my wife went through that led her to "jump." The problem was…at the time…even though she was telling me…I had no idea what I was REALLY doing to her. I do now. But we had to find out the hard way. And we will pay the rest of our lives.

So, in the end, you will either be with OM in fantasyland and have a "fun" time…only to be thrust back into your marriage and you will eventually pay for the "fun." Or that relationship will get serious, you will pay also for this…maybe even lose your husband for good…and in the end, you most likely will not be with the OM (look at the stats!). Or there is another way.

You are close to an affair. I dare say, you already have had an EA. Since your husband is gone, he now has no way to fight that…so anyone that walks in will continue to pull you down that road. To insert deposits in your love bank. You must close the bank to ALL males NOW! Don't talk to them. Put up boundaries to all males (except your Dad…he is probably the guy who can really help you right now!). You are in such a weakened position that you have to cut out all personal contact with any male, on any level except professional. Then, when your husband gets home, you need to tell him EVERYTHING. Tell him how close you have been to an affair…to leaving him. Tell him how miserable you are. Be radically honest. Put the ball in his court. One thing is for sure with males…once they know their gals are hooking up with someone else, or thinking about it…they seem to put there self into a 180 degree turn VERY quickly. It may just be this news that will cause him to really see what he is doing.

You think you are angry and frustrated with him now? Wait until after the affair, when you are trying to repair the marriage and are looking at and blaming your husband for putting you in such a position that you blew everything…your marriage, your family, your friends, your self-respect, your morals…everything. Look ,if you bring him on here, I'll even talk to him. Because I tell you…if my wife had told me before they started hooking up that she was thinking about this and we had a true heart-to-heart talk, you had better believe I would have woke up. I wish she had done that for me. I would have changed as I have now…and we would not have the permanent damage from the affair.

I want to post more here, but I will wait for your response and questions. You are where my wife was in September 2001. You DO NOT WANT TO BE where she is in April 2003! She would tell you that. Give your husband a chance. Wait…then talk to him. Give it time. You are very young. There is plenty of time to find another man if this doesn't work out. A man with some honor and character, unlike your OM. If you give it your all, set up boundaries, and then put it in his ball court when he returns…and it still doesn't work out…then you can walk away with your head high. If you don't, then you may find it difficult to really put your head high again.

In His arms.

Wow Mortarman, thank you so much for responding. Our situations sound almost identical, except I haven't gone through with it... yet, I guess.

First of all, let me start with why I am afraid to tell my H about what is going on. He knows that I am having a hard time. He knows that I was VERY close to leaving him before he left. We have talked about what happened before he left and how it has made me feel MANY, MANY times. The way he chooses to deal with that is to not think about it. He "pretends" nothing is wrong and goes about as if nothing has happened and we are the happiest family in the world. I'm not sure if he knows how close I am to an A. I'm sure it crosses his mind, you know, me being alone here for so long, but he always says how much he trusts me and he is not the jealous type AT ALL. I'm not sure if he just doesn't care what I do (b/c it sure seems like he doesn't!!) or if he just doesn't think about it. This is where it gets complicated... he almost "encourages" me to hang out with other men because it gives him "permission" to continue on in the life he was in before (acting like a bachelor). For example, he will say "I have no right to tell you what to do after all I've put you through, so go ahead and do whatever you want" or "why don't you go hang out with the neighbor downstairs, you're both lonely" (he was a single dad- this was when we lived in our old apt.) or saying he didn't mind at all when my ex-BF would call, not caring when I would tell him his friends would come over to visit me ater he left, etc. The reason I am afraid to tell him what is going on now is because I feel stupid for falling for his "trick" of getting me to somehow form a relationship with an OM so he can have free reign to do whatever he wants. He is a VERY revengeful person, and unless I actually do have an A, I think it would only cause more harm than good to tell him how close I am. In his mind, from what his past behavior tells me, he would think "Oh, OK, she's gonna have an A, well I'll take $1,000 out of our account and hire a couple prostitutes. Since she's having fun, I will too." That may sound incredibly stupid, but I AM afraid of how he would react to that knowledge, and I really don't think it would be in a healthy way. I think he's just looking for an opportunity to go completely crazy and the only thing that's keeping him from that is his guilt in thinking I'm this saintly wife sitting at home and waiting for him. So I am afraid that if I don't go through with an A, but tell him I'm close to one, he WILL go through with it, so either way, we're screwed. If I want to try to make this work, I have to shut up and keep him in his fantasyland.

About the OM, there is no way that I could form a lasting R with him for many reasons. There is only physical attraction there and while he is a sweetheart, he is too immature to take on a wife and daughter (although he says all the time that we're gonna get married someday, he'll take over the role of "daddy" for my dd, etc.) he is a partier, he dates a lot of different women, etc. He tells me he wants to settle down, but I don't believe any man ever wants to settle down with one woman (no offense to anyone, that's just my cynicism coming out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). So why do I want to get involved with a guy like that? One, I have ties to him for other reasons, that I am too nervous to mention here in case someone is lurking, so he's not just someone I met in a club one night. No we have not had an A, so it's not that. He reminds me of the guy I lost my virginity to (very smooth, the whole "tough guy" thing) and for that reason, he brings out the "bad" part of me, I am very attracted to him and have always been attracted to guys like that (which yes, has only gotten me into trouble), he tells me what I want to hear, he is a total sweetheart (I have known his family for a long time and I see how interacts with his sisters) etc. So I guess that is what draws me to him.

I guess what sums all of this up is when you wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If those top 5 needs are not met consistently, we will get to the breaking point (and each persons breaking point is different), where we are willing to do ANYTHING to stop the pain. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that is exactly where I am. Not only has my H not EVER met even ONE of my EN's (excpet out of complete and utter deceit) but he does things on top of that that cause me TREMENDOUS pain. And I'm over it. Yes, he has the capacity of being a wonderful man. But he LIES. He lied SO MUCH before he left that I have no idea who he *really* is or when he's telling me the truth, if ever. I have no idea where he is in this M, what he's committed to doing, what he needs me to do, how he feels about me, etc. He lies more than anyone I have ever known in my life and frankly, he scares me. I don't know how I feel about him. I'm confused, I'm sick of feeling unsure and miserable all the time, I'm sick of bending over backwards to try to get him to not F up by being the most amazing, wonderful, sexy wife, I'm sick of doing all of the work in this GD marriage and getting nothing in return, I'm sick of my H acting like a 13 year old. I'm tired.

I don't know what I want. Actually, what I really want is for my H to be the person (I thought) he was before his "other life" came out but I'm not sure he will ever be that person, or if he ever was. I'm scared to let go because I love that person so much, but I don't know where to find him anymore. And I think I will go the rest of my life holding onto that fantasy. He is so good at being amazing and having it be a big facade. And I'm scared of being deceived again.

So that's where I'm at. Sorry to go on so long. I really appreciate you sharing part of your story with me, and I'll try to go back and read through the rest of it. Good luck to you and I'm glad things are going better.

Hey MG...glad we could do this. you are right. After reading this latest post, things are waaayyyy too similar. So, let me respond to what you posted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> First of all, let me start with why I am afraid to tell my H about what is going on. He knows that I am having a hard time. He knows that I was VERY close to leaving him before he left. We have talked about what happened before he left and how it has made me feel MANY, MANY times. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not know how many discussions we had in the two years prior to the A where she tried to tell me what was going on, that she was lonely, that she didn't want things to continue like they were.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The way he chooses to deal with that is to not think about it. He "pretends" nothing is wrong and goes about as if nothing has happened and we are the happiest family in the world. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly what I did!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not sure if he knows how close I am to an A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, believe me…he does! At least subconsciously. See your posts below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm sure it crosses his mind, you know, me being alone here for so long, but he always says how much he trusts me and he is not the jealous type AT ALL. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trusted my wife explicitly too. Which led to me taking her for granted!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not sure if he just doesn't care what I do (b/c it sure seems like he doesn't!!) or if he just doesn't think about it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think there is a third option here. He doesn't WANT to think about it. Too many insecurities, probably. Better not to look under that rock…might be something that can bite him. Just pretend everything's okay, and ignore it. It'll go away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is where it gets complicated... he almost "encourages" me to hang out with other men because it gives him "permission" to continue on in the life he was in before (acting like a bachelor). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How does he act? Has he had an affair? May signal why he is pushing you on other men. Or, if he hasn't had an affair, he may be pushing you to have these "friendships" because he trusts you not to go "too far," and he can feel better about not being there because he knows some of your needs are being met. I sort of did this. I never minded her "platonic" relationships with other men. Believe me, no more of those!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For example, he will say "I have no right to tell you what to do after all I've put you through, so go ahead and do whatever you want" or "why don't you go hang out with the neighbor downstairs, you're both lonely" (he was a single dad- this was when we lived in our old apt.) or saying he didn't mind at all when my ex-BF would call, not caring when I would tell him his friends would come over to visit me after he left, etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, see above. Either he has or is seeing someone, or more likely, he trusts you not to cross the line into a PA, and he wants to make sure that he doesn't take away anything that might keep you where you are at. He may even feel guilty for not being there, and thus act like the good guy by saying "Hey, I'm not jealous. I trust you. Hang out with anyone you want." While deep down, it is killing him. Don't know which of these fit. You'll have to determine it for yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The reason I am afraid to tell him what is going on now is because I feel stupid for falling for his "trick" of getting me to somehow form a relationship with an OM so he can have free reign to do whatever he wants. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could be. But you may also be surprised. He may feel guilty for being away and how he has treated you. So maybe by you going into another man's arms, he can then not feel guilty, but instead mad at you. Thus he can transfer his guilt in where your relationship is, to your guilt for destroying the relationship by having an affair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He is a VERY revengeful person, and unless I actually do have an A, I think it would only cause more harm than good to tell him how close I am. In his mind, from what his past behavior tells me, he would think "Oh, OK, she's gonna have an A, well I'll take $1,000 out of our account and hire a couple prostitutes. Since she's having fun, I will too." That may sound incredibly stupid, but I AM afraid of how he would react to that knowledge, and I really don't think it would be in a healthy way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay…this is one big reason why not to have an affair. You may think it wont come out…it will. He WILL eventually find out. How revengeful is he gonna be then? I think that if, by the time he gets home, that you have worked on yourself, and not gotten into an affair, that you then tell him that you were close awhile ago…that you need for him to sit down, go to counseling, do whatever, so you don't get to that point again. That way he cant say you had one and then seek his own. He cant say you are looking for one, and then seek his own. The only thing he can see is that you were close, that you backed off and waited for him in order to save the marriage. That his wife, his "pot pie" might have ended up on someone else's plate. And there's a good chance if he doesn't sit down and work on this, it just might!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think he's just looking for an opportunity to go completely crazy and the only thing that's keeping him from that is his guilt in thinking I'm this saintly wife sitting at home and waiting for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which gets me to my point why he pushes you at these "friendships." Don't let him do this. Mostly for yourself!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I am afraid that if I don't go through with an A, but tell him I'm close to one, he WILL go through with it, so either way, we're screwed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not necessarily. But you are screwed if you don't get him to change his ways and start meeting your ENs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If I want to try to make this work, I have to shut up and keep him in his fantasyland. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, no, no. No one needs to be in a fantasyland. You both need a dose of reality…and pretty quick before fantasyland on both your parts turns into a nightmare.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> About the OM, there is no way that I could form a lasting R with him for many reasons. There is only physical attraction there and while he is a sweetheart, he is too immature to take on a wife and daughter (although he says all the time that we're gonna get married someday, he'll take over the role of "daddy" for my dd, etc.) he is a partier, he dates a lot of different women, etc. He tells me he wants to settle down, but I don't believe any man ever wants to settle down with one woman (no offense to anyone, that's just my cynicism coming out ). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Look at what you wrote here. You are an adult, MG. This guy is a boy. You want a man or a boy? Physical attraction? Where will that get you? Any animal can have sex. You have to be kidding if you think that these physical things are going to make you feel better about yourself and your situation. What would you tell your daughter?

So, why do you want to get involved with this guy? Oh, you asked this question below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So why do I want to get involved with a guy like that? One, I have ties to him for other reasons, that I am too nervous to mention here in case someone is lurking, so he's not just someone I met in a club one night. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, it really doesn't matter what the reason is, how much history you have, or what he can do for you. He is a little boy. You are a grown, married woman with a child. You cannot act like you are 16 anymore, even if he wants to. Sorry to be so harsh there, but that is one comment our mutual friends made about my 32 year old wife during this affair. They said she was acting like an 18 year old school girl with a crush. That's fine for a teenager. For an adult, it is very destructive. And I think you will find…what you found exciting at 16 will not have the same lure at your age. This guy is a boy. He is showing you no respect, nor your child, nor the father of your child. He wants to use you, and then move on. And sounds like you want the same. You willing to risk everything for that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No we have not had an A, so it's not that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you havent had a physical affair, you almost assuredly have had an emotional affair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He reminds me of the guy I lost my virginity to (very smooth, the whole "tough guy" thing) and for that reason, he brings out the "bad" part of me, I am very attracted to him and have always been attracted to guys like that (which yes, has only gotten me into trouble), he tells me what I want to hear, he is a total sweetheart (I have known his family for a long time and I see how interacts with his sisters) etc. So I guess that is what draws me to him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me, I KNOW the bad guy role. Look, have I been attracted to other women during my 10 year marriage? Sure. And sometimes, it has been very intoxicating. More than once, I know all it would have taken was a few more words, and I could have had a wild time with this person. Okay, a wild time. Then what? Don't you see? Hormones only take you to the point of disaster, if they are not controlled by your head. Right now, you are not thinking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess what sums all of this up is when you wrote:

quote:

If those top 5 needs are not met consistently, we will get to the breaking point (and
each persons breaking point is different), where we are willing to do ANYTHING to stop
the pain.

And that is exactly where I am. Not only has my H not EVER met even ONE of my EN's (excpet out of complete and utter deceit) but he does things on top of that that cause me TREMENDOUS pain. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very good. Not that he hasn't met your ENs. But that you recognize where it is that he needs to improve. This will come in handy later. By the way, have you figured out what your top 5 needs are?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And I'm over it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You think you are over it. But your posts below show that you are not My wife said she was "over with the marriage." And then started the affair. Over a year later, the OM was asking her why she hadnt gotten divorced, that he continued to be in limbo. She was with him, but just couldn't go all the way and divorce. Why? She had said she was done with the marriage. And if you read, after I found out about the affair, things got MUCH worse. So, why didn't she go forward with the divorce? The answer is…she wasn't over me or her marriage. Neither are you. Stop fooling yourself because once you make rationalizations and lead yourself into the fog, the pain you will have to endure in order to get out of the fog will be huge. Ask my wife!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, he has the capacity of being a wonderful man. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course…this is why you married him. He still exists. But it will probably have to be you who leads him back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But he LIES. He lied SO MUCH before he left that I have no idea who he *really* is or when he's telling me the truth, if ever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Probably trying to protect himself. Not an excuse, of course. But trust is not the central part of marriage…it is commitment.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have no idea where he is in this M, what he's committed to doing, what he needs me to do, how he feels about me, etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why you shouldn't have an affair. YOU DON'T KNOW! Until you do know, and seek a divorce, and become a single woman again, anything you do now will only destroy what might still be there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He lies more than anyone I have ever known in my life and frankly, he scares me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Scares you how? Is there physical abuse, emotional abuse? If so, seek counseling. Get him to seek counseling. It doesn't have to mean the end of the marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know how I feel about him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">again, this is the biggest reason NOT to get involved in an affair or throw away your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm confused, I'm sick of feeling unsure and miserable all the time, I'm sick of bending over backwards to try to get him to not F up by being the most amazing, wonderful, sexy wife, I'm sick of doing all of the work in this GD marriage and getting nothing in return, I'm sick of my H acting like a 13 year old. I'm tired. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course. And no one says you should have to stay in a marriage like that. But just because he is acting like a 13 year old doesn't give you license to act like a 16 year old. You are a married woman. With a daughter. Act like one. And take charge of your marriage. If your daughter was messing up, would you leave her? Would you just go find another little girl to be your daughter? Of course not. She is your blood, your family. You love her, even though you may not always like her and she may do some awful things to you (especially when she gets to be a teenager). Your husband is your blood, your family. Treat him as such. He is out of bounds and not treating you right. Don't put up with it. But just like your daughter is still your family, your husband is also. So, don't abandon your family member for someone new. Help him. I wish my wife had before all of this. She was tired too...had no more left. But the effort she would of made then would have been much less than what she has to make now, and really forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know what I want. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you do. See your next post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Actually, what I really want is for my H to be the person (I thought) he was before his "other life" came out but I'm not sure he will ever be that person, or if he ever was. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE! You will never get him, just like my wife will probably never get back all that she had, if you cross that line. You want that husband back? Is it worth it to save your marriage? Steve harley asked my wife two questions when we first started counseling with him, right in the middle of the affair. First, he asked "do you believe that it is the best thing for her children if a mother is in love with their father?" Of course, she said yes. He then asked "do you believe it is the best thing for your children for you to be in love with Mortarman?" She was floored. She told me the other day that those questions weighed on her thru the whole affair. You want the husband you fell in love with? You want your life right, without all of the complications of affairs, divorce, step-parents, etc? You need to think now…before it is too late. You say you are tired and don't have the energy to make the effort But guess what? That affair is gonna take a lot of energy and you will still be married to your husband. How much energy is it gonna take to maintain two relationships? Even if divorced, you still have to maintain a relationship with your husband, the father of your child. You will complicate your life unbelievably.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm scared to let go because I love that person so much, but I don't know where to find him anymore. And I think I will go the rest of my life holding onto that fantasy. He is so good at being amazing and having it be a big facade. And I'm scared of being deceived again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Guess what? The reason I acted the way I did was I was scared. Your husband is probably scared deep down. And most guys, especially military types, are not allowed to admit fear. This is where you must search for him. In his fears.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So that's where I'm at. Sorry to go on so long. I really appreciate you sharing part of your story with me, and I'll try to go back and read through the rest of it. Good luck to you and I'm glad things are going better. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks. And we are doing better. But we are the walking wounded. DO NOT FOLLOW US. Learn from us. My wife is 32 and I am almost 40. You are young. You have plenty of time to figure this out. Shoot…from what I hear, women don't hit their sexual prime until their 30s. So stop letting physical attraction warp your thinking. You are a married woman. You belong to your husband, just as he belongs to you. You have no right to give away to another man what belongs to your husband. If you want to act single, then get single. But I have the sneaky suspicion that this isnt what you want. That this wanting an affair is a cry for help. But you know what you really want. And many here can help you figure out how to get it. But if you don't turn and run from OM…and NEVER go near him again…you will have very little chance to get back what you are about to lose. And if not for yourself, look in your child's eyes and say that what you are doing is the right thing. Her whole life will depend on what you do.

In His arms.

<small>[ April 07, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Question MG,

Is the OM in your life your husbands brother? This is really the only logical reason I can see for the way you talk about him. Doesn't matter. Break off
all contact with the OM.

jd

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've lost all motivation to do the right thing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you project yourself into the future, say five years...looking back at now more objectively, what would make you proud of yourself?
What would make you cringe?
What actions would you regret?
What would make you feel honorable and right?

Do words like "honor, pride, commitment right" have meaning for you?

I'm not criticizing, I'm asking you to think, and hopefully to find the motivation to hold steadfast.

As my military H has explained to me, with your husband deployed, right now you don't have the usual option of choosing divorce before unfaithfulness, as no legal action can be taken against him because of the deployment.

Mortarman,
Again, thank you. I had tears in my eyes the entire time I was reading your post. I'm sure I will read it 100 times more. Thank you so much.

JD-
No, he is not my H's brother. I'm not *that* heartless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

marriedgirl,..

nothing in your situation is going to change one iota...until you quit projecting so much outside of you....and turn the issue back around to you....

Your husband is not the root of all that is evil in this world....for if he is divorce him and move on....

I think the more you focus this back on you and quit running around looking for the drama and excitement....and learn to feel and be comfortable in who you are ....the more you will be able to make rational decisions....

I do not accept for one moment that your husband never met one need of yours ever....

I mean you have this whole thread on the other site about you wanting surgery...and you post an email that on your own admission sounds like what you wanted to hear....that he does meet some of your needs...

The most honest thing you may have said in this whole post is the following

"Why does the life I'm living feel so dull and lifeless and depressing that when another man looks at me a certain way- in a way I'm not sure my H has ever looked at me, it makes me not even care what happens? Why do I want *that* more than I want to avoid causing pain? I feel disgusting and horrible and I'm sure that's how I sound. I'm not sure how to look at the positive and "find myself" or whatever. I have this driving need to be wanted. And it feels as pathetic as it sounds."

that's where you need to search.....within you...You have answered a lot of your own questions right with in there...you need to learn how to look at the positive...you need to learn how to find yourself....If you don't find yourself you will always be lost no matter whom it is you sleep with....
you need to learn forgiveness...
you need to learn excepting you can't change the past...
you need to learn all of these things for the simple fact that they are lessons well learned that make you the real YOU...a better person no matter where life takes you....

You need to look very closely at your need for drama and excitement...and even attention gained at crisis after crisis....

you need to learn to be grateful and thankful for what is good in your life....

marriegirl lots and lots of people have given you great advice here on this post and the other board and hard and painfully earned wisdom...and I am not sure if you can hear them...or if at time you choose not to....

Some of the things we hold on to and do over and over again...are done for no other reason than they are comfortable for us...and change can be scarey....

and sometimes letting go is hard....but feeling bad inside is harder....

ARK

MG,

I know you are a tough girl and a sweetheart. You know you just need a boost right now. Believe Mortarman. He is one of the first people I read here and boy has he been through the ringer. He knows what he is talking about.

I am not going to even insult your intelligence by giving you a litany of why you shouldn't go there. Ask Mortar...when his marriage seemed all but done...wife deep in fog...he befriended I am sure a very respectable lady. I flayed him...why? Not because he doesnt deserve some happiness...God knows he does...and so do you. Not because this "friend" had any alterior motive. I think they truly both had lots to share in terms of support. But to get to the point...Why did I flay him...because he is married...period. So are you hon. If you decide to end the marriage that is one thing...and I am certainly not advising you at this point on that matter.
Now obviously it is healthy to learn from the perspectives of the opposite sex in an anteseptic environment such as this. I myself have offered prayers and support to many people here, both male and female through the boards and email. However, offering prayer and support is vastly different than making a friendly bond with a person of the opposite sex. This I have not and will never do...not because I am in any way better than anyone else but because I force myself to maintain who I am because that is all that I have. If I let a bad marriage, a lonely life, or a difficult future change who I am at the core...then I am nothing.

You are so much more...and you know it. We are here to support you through this difficult time.

kiss the baby for me

ayslyne

MG,

Asylyne is so right. And she did flay me several times. And I needed it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I have a couple of questions for you that may help me understand more of your situation, and to also maybe give you hopefully some helpful advice.

Are you a Christian?

How active are you in your faith, if you are?

Do you have a church and/or a bible study?

what does your husband lie about...and do you ever call him on it? What is his response?

What are your top 5 ENs? What are your husband's?

How much loner will your husband be deployed? Is he career military, or does he plan on getting out? If he is, does he have a plan of what he will do in civilian life?

Besides being a good wife and mother, what is it YOU want to do with your life? Notice, I am not even insinuating that you must have a career or anything like that. I have the utmost respect for those women that want to be housewives and stay at home moms. That is MUCH harder than going to an office. But the question still remains...what are your short term goals and long term goals for YOU?

Now that you answered that question...does your husband know about these goals? does he support them? what are you doing to move toward them?

MG...these are just a few of the questions I have for you. but more importantly, these are the questions you should be asking yourself. You dont have time for an affair! You have a little girl to tend to, a house and life to tend to. You have short and long term goals to go after. You have a husband to love and support. If you just concentrate on what MG can do, and what MG wants...I can guarantee you (actually God guarantees this for Christians in Galatians 6) that you will get the very best for your life. I am not guaranteeing it wont be a rough road ahead. But, you pursue an affair, the road WILL get rougher, and you may miss out on some of these things that you have and want.

Like I said...you dont have time for an affair. Pursue your life, your dreams. Put your effort into your marriage and family. You dont have to be a doormat. Stand up for yourself and your marriage. You are unhappy. But guess who else is unhappy? Your husband. but unlike you, he doesnt have the answers..he probably doesnt even know where to look. It will be up to you to guide him through this.

You made a promise for better, health and richer. But did you really have to promise to stick around for those things? No. It was the second part of that promise...worse, sickness, poorer...is the reason you made that promise. Keep your word. Do YOUR best. In the end, you will get the best.

In His arms.

Hi Mortar,
I'm heading out the door but I'll try to answer your questions. I'll elaborate later if you want me to. Thank you so much for helping me like this...

Are you a Christian?...Yes. I accepted Christ at the age of 5 and grew up in a Christian home. Obviously, you couldn't tell by the way I live my life at this point which saddens me. There have been times when I am closer to God than others. I get distracted too easily. And yes, H is too. He grew up in a VERY strict Christian home. He spent most of his teen years in youth group- completely opposite from me.

How active are you in your faith, if you are?... I'm not as active as I'd like to be at this point. I tend to get really close and then drift away. I pray a lot throughout the day and read my Bible occassionally, but that's about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Do you have a church and/or a bible study?...I've been moving around so much these past few months that I have not been able to look for a church. It's also hard by myself with a small baby and she's just gotten to the age where I feel comfortable putting her in day care (or nursery, in church). I am currently at my parent's house but when I go back home at the end of the month I plan on looking for a church so we can begin going when H gets home.

what does your husband lie about...and do you ever call him on it? What is his response?... he lies about everything. EVERYTHING. He's a pretty bad liar so I usually catch him, but it worries me- the things I haven't caught, esp. since he's been gone for so long. I talked to his mom about this and she said he has been this way since he was a small child. His mom is an incredibly angry, punishing person so I guess that's how he learned to cope. Sucks for me. Mostly, he lies about what he does with other women. He had a porn addiction/ compulsion before he left and lied about that constantly. He took hundreds of dollars from our account and blatently lied to my face about that so I ended up reporting that our credit card had been stolen. He stole money from my parents to chat with girls online and he lied about that (he racked up about $500 on their phone bill). He would say he hadn't looked at porn for a long time and then I would look at the history and see that he had been to about 10 sites in the 15 minutes I was in the shower, or in the other room. The ONLY thing he has ever admitted to me (the other things I caught him in)is when he went to a strip club and got several lap dances a week after our dd was born. And it took him 6 months to be able to do that. As far as I know, he has not cheated on me and adamently denies that to this day. I mostly believe him about that.

What are your top 5 ENs? What are your husband's?
I'll have to get back to you on this... I have his test somewhere and I've done more speculating about my own so I need to take the actual test to see for sure. Actually, I did do the test awhile ago I just need to find it.

How much loner will your husband be deployed? Is he career military, or does he plan on getting out? If he is, does he have a plan of what he will do in civilian life?...we have no idea when he's coming home. His deployment was extended "indefinately" and we still have not heard anything. No, he is not career. THANK GOD. I don't think I could handle that. He wants to do a job (non-military) that counts toward his retirement so we're still looking into the options.

Besides being a good wife and mother, what is it YOU want to do with your life? Notice, I am not even insinuating that you must have a career or anything like that. I have the utmost respect for those women that want to be housewives and stay at home moms. That is MUCH harder than going to an office. But the question still remains...what are your short term goals and long term goals for YOU?...I DO NOT want to be a SAHM for much longer. He gets out in about 1.5 years and I have been trying to go back to school (to complete my nursing degree) but there's no way I can do that before he gets out. We plan on moving across country when he does get out, and all of the nursing schools where I'm living now have a 2-3 year wait just to get in. I have already completed all of my pre-reqs so I can't do that either. I'll probably get a job when things settle down a little. I want to become a nurse, have more kids, live in a small town where we're happy, and just have a normal life. I'd like to be halfway happy in my M, but who knows.

Now that you answered that question...does your husband know about these goals? does he support them? what are you doing to move toward them?....My H knows that I want to be a nurse and yes, he supports me in that.

That's all I have time for right now. Thank you so much for being interested enough to ask me questions. It really does help. I REALLY want to try to get my H to talk with you. Thanks again.

I was in your shoes about five years ago. Temptation was strongly coming my way... I chose the destructive path of having an affair. I felt my needs weren't getting met--husband was gone a lot --so I was lonely . Instead of working on my marriage, I found some guy on the internet. We had an affair. It lasted for almost four years. During that time my marriage ended, and now I'm divorced.(21 year marriage) After a four year A with OM, I ended that. I could see what a bad choice I'd made, far too late.

Guess what? Now I'm very much alone. I miss my exH constantly, and dream of being with him almost nightly. He refuses to forgive me, and hardly says a word to me.

As many mentioned, I now have to look back at my life with deep regret and shame. To me, this is a type of #ell at times. To know that due to one's own selfish actions, you've destroyed the calm family life of yourself, your spouse, and your children. Not to mention friends and extended family. Even if the A hadn't led to separation and divorce...how hard it would be to look in the mirror and know what one has done.

Was the A worth it? Would yours be worth it? I think not. Nothing is worth losing your sense of pride in yourself, or your integrity.

God Bless,
H_P

Married Girl-

I want to share with you a picture of what your life will look like in three years from now if you decide to have an A with this person...

Last night at around midnight, I lay in bed listening to an instrumental version of a song that was playing on a CD. It happened to be a lulabye called Pooh Corner written by Kenny Loggin's. As I listened to the music, I started to remember all of the hope that I had when my son was born. He is now turning 6.

I thought about the dreams that his father and I had shared...watching his first steps, experiencing his first laugh, riding a bike, and the first time he'd catch a baseball! Then I thought about all of the things that I took for granted - like tucking him in his bed at night and then cuddling up next to his father for my night's slumber, or giving him a bath while his dad stood in the doorway and looked on....

The next thing I thought of was the night that I kneeled by my son's bed while his dad cuddled him. My A was long over, and I had tried desperately to gain a second chance....My son was hopeful that I was coming home, but I had to tell him that I couldn't, that dad and I weren't going to live together ever again. I had to tell him that I was never going to stand in his room at dad's house again because DAD wanted his GF to live live with them now....I had to tell him that in order for her to be there, I had to leave. I will not lie and say that it didn't hurt...I creid like a baby the whole time. I had to remind him of how happy daddy was when she is around, and that this was a good thing. I had to remind him that I loved him no matter what.

Do you want to have to explain to your child WHY daddy had to find someone new? He will...if you run to someone else...Do you want to only see your child 3 1/2 days a week and not have the privelege of watching him grow with the partner that you had when you conceived him? Do you want to watch all of those dreams that you shared with your husband die and then later realize that you had a chance to save them? Do you want to have to fight him in court in order to establish the place that you children will go to school?

If you want all of this, then have your A...if you want it to be different, walk away and fight for your marriage.

MG,

I will get to your post above later because I would love to discuss your answers. but I wanted to make a quick comment here.

Listen to these two gals (hopeful_person & kily). They are where you are headed! They are on the other side of that fence. it is too late for them to make another choice. too late for their marriages. Too late for their kids. Even if their husbands were back with them, as I am back with my wife, it is too late to have what we could have had. My marriage might be better, and it might be great. but what has been damaged may not all be repaired. The scars will always be there.

Read between the lines they wrote. See the pain and hurt. Listen to Kily talk about her son, then insert your daughter into that scene. Let's say you do have an affair. And a year from now, your husband finds out, and you are headed to divorce court. And let's say you get joint custody. Your daugher would be close to 3 years old by the time this all happens. Then you too can see your daugher only 3-4 days a week.

Think about this. If your daughter is 3 at the time, and you get half time with her because of joint custody, you will only be with her 7 1/2 years of the next 15 of her life! You will COMPLETELY miss 7 1/2 years of her growing up, learning to be a woman. Some other woman, one your husband will meet and marry, will get those 7 1/2 years. When she has her first perios, or her first boyfriend troubles...will it happen on your time or her dad's? Will it be another woman comforting your daughter during these moments? And on this side...how will you adequately share with your new husband the pride and joy of what your daughter does? He is not her father...his interest in her, while it might be great, can never compare to her father's (and I do not mean BIOLOGICAL...I mean the man she calls Dad.).

Do you see? the devil tries to make us look at the short term benefits of whatever we are doing and make us miss out on seeing the long term destruction of our actions.

As these wise ladies said above...is it going to be worth it to have that fun...that instant pleasure...that momentary getiing your needs met...all which will lead to the things we have discussed here..and so much more?

MG, I am sure both of these ladies above would trade places with you in a second! I would certainly love to trade places with your husband right now...to be given another chance to make right before my wife went out and had an affair. Heed their warnings.

In His arms.

Hi,
I'm fairly new to the message boards...and still in a state of withdrawal...although it is getting easier each day.

Besides the pain you will cause your husband, and your family, you need to consider yourself. Believe me....it is not worth it. I have lost a dear friend (OM) and caused my husband to lose a dear friend.

I have had to change churches because of NC, and I regret it every day of my life.

The load of guilt is tremendous. For the sin, and the pain you cause others. DON'T DO IT!!!!!!! Believe me, it isn't worth it. It will end one day, and that is very painful. Then you are left to pick up the pieces of your life. If I can help one person not choose the path I took, then maybe my experience was not in vain. I am one of the lucky ones...my husband chose to forgive me. But, forgiving myself....I don't know if I ever will. Diane