I had an e-mail from H today asking why I need certain information from him about his pension.

He says that he believes my Solicitor and I are trying to give him as little as possible and all he wants to be is fair. I find this so incredibly unbelievable. It wasn't fair when he was shrieking at me that he was entitled to half, it wasn't fair when he verbablly abused me in the street and then ran off and left me standing there.

As I said before, I am not interested in his pension, but why should I offer him more money given that I don't have a pension, and his is probably substantial. It also hurts me that when my Solicitor asked whether he should say that my H would be liable for DV costs, I said "Oh no, don't do that". This apparently is just the way it works over here, the one that files claims the costs back. I'm saying, oh I'll pay, I don't want him to have to fork out. It's a joke that he accuses me of not being fair.

I expect this has something to do with OW egging him on, but I'm sick of always supporting him financially - why should I carry the extra burden now if his status is better than he is letting on?

I hate this, I really do. Just needed to vent.

Lisa

Lisa:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I expect this has something to do with OW egging him on, but I'm sick of always supporting him financially - why should I carry the extra burden now if his status is better than he is letting on?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe that this has any prompting from OW. I think he is now VERY scared of losing everything, and he is hurting at the same time. Like you, He NEVER thought your M would end. It's easy to dream about what your life would be like without the other person in it. It's even exciting to fanatasize about how light and free you would be without the other person binding you down...but, once REALITY hits - the real feelings surface. Loss, Anger, Fear, Vengefulness.

You are angry at him because he ran away - He is angry at you because you will not LET him. You still have claims to him and he simply just wants what he wants....

Let go of your anger and try to see beyond his bad behavior. He is so lost right now, and he's losing even more...

Kily, you are right. It upsets me that he talks about being fair, but he is being anything but.

It is interesting you say that I am cross with him for running away, but that is angry because I won't let him. What exacatly do you mean? Do you mean my efforts to try and hold the M together and since then my continued efforts at trying to be warm (like me e-mail to him that he ignored). Do you think I should just ignore all feeling now and just deal with the practicals.

Funny enough, I was sitting in the back garden today (we have had some beautiful sunny weather again), and I wondered if I would feel so bad about certain things if OW wasn't on the scene. Would I feel more able to get on with my life if she were not around. Would I feel the loss less acutely if she were not there? You know what, I think probably I would......

Thanks Kily, appreciate your further thoughts if you have the time.
Lisa

This whole legal thing is just rubbing salt into the wounds, you know. In the UK, someone *has* to be blamed, when claiming for 'unreasonable behaviour' you have to dish out all the dirty things, solicitors *will* ask for full disclosure of finances etc etc etc.
To tell you the truth, I think it's hugely degrading for all involved - especially if expectations are initially set differently. (check my thread re what the solicitor told me).

Cheers
N

Nick

I agree, and I do want to be fair. H could have walked off that other week with a happy walk and smile. Because he started going on about the half is mine bit, I went back to the Solicitor and that's when I was told I HAVE to get the relevant info on the pensions. As I said before, I don't want his pension, but it could be REALLY REALLY substantial (I mean a lot of money), and in which case, it should be reflected in what I offer him - not that I take the money from him, but that I offer less.

I'll check your thread out too. But you are right about how this just sucks completely. It does, and I can't believe that we ever came to this. I also know it will inevitably get worse before it gets better.

Lisa

Lisa, you have every right to be hurt and angry with his response, but his moral compass is broken and what he considers fair and unfair is ludicrous at best.

I pity your stbxh because he is throwing away what may be his only chance at a truly happy marriage. He can run away from you and your A, but he can not run away from himself and his faults (including his present A). In the future, those same faults of his will catch up with him and he may end up repeating history. You on the other hand, will have grown as a person, moved on with your life and most likely, a better marriage with a man who is a husband in a truest sense of the word.

We share your grief for the end of your marriage and will be with you all the way. Even if it's only in spirit.

Lisa-

Your reflections are dead on - If you both agreed to something coming from a rational place it would be acceptible. He is not rational.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What exacatly do you mean? Do you mean my efforts to try and hold the M together and since then my continued efforts at trying to be warm (like me e-mail to him that he ignored). Do you think I should just ignore all feeling now and just deal with the practicals.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Somehting close to this. When he left, in his mind, he was walking away. Did he think that you would fight for a M after having the A and going through everything that you did? In his mind, he was done...You held on. Now he has that on his mind.
Additionally, you've NOW decided that you are ready to move on...He is being FORCED to DEAL with the consequences. The dissolution of a life is painful, knowing you can stop this is even more painful...his ties are being cut, and it will not be pretty.

Kily, yes thanks, I get it. The only thing I would say is that I don't feel ready to move on, but feel trapped into doing this with little other option. In my heart, I know H won't come round and because he wants his pay-off as I have said countless times, it has to tie in with the DV. I think it is probably more scarey for him than me to be cutting those ties. H doesn't have that many friends and his family are far and wide. Even his 2 D's love and support me and want me in their lives..... Thanks for your extra thoughts.

Hi CM - thank you for your support. I am grieving, so very much sometimes I can't bear it. It hurts too because I think that he just doesn't seem to care and has got OW making him happy - and then I think of course, that's baloney, he's not happy at all. We're both sad, lost, unhappy, missing each other, care, but we can't move forward. I was reading Stunned-Dad's post over on recovery, and I thought, sometimes, people can't just move on together. But he was right, that recovery can be an individual thing, and one day I will get there.

You are right too about him taking his issues and faults with him. I worry about how this will affect him in the long term. I also hear what you are saying at this being his only chance for a happy M. But me, if I am lucky, I may meet someone just like you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you.

Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But me, if I am lucky, I may meet someone just like you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just make sure that you keep plenty of coffee in the house and he will kiss the ground you walk on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lisa-

You are hitting on NERVES today....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am grieving, so very much sometimes I can't bear it. It hurts too because I think that he just doesn't seem to care and has got OW making him happy - and then I think of course, that's baloney, he's not happy at all. We're both sad, lost, unhappy, missing each other, care, but we can't move forward. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm here too and like you, I've chosen to start moving again. I think the exact same thoughts: "he loves her, she's perfect, he would NEVER want to come back to someone like me"

Quick reminder - he is "happy" with his GF. He LOVES her like he USED to love me. He doesn't love me (stating this with pure hatred shooting from his eyes) then I hear an ineteresting comment that came from X's mouth just the other day:

"All of us have lost in this, no one has turned out a winner"

Kily is thinking...
Okay, so I thought that you said you were happy...

I'm just sharing this with you so that you see that it IS really a mask. Your husband is wearing a mask too...

"We're both sad, lost, unhappy, missing each other, care, but we can't move forward..sometimes, people can't just move on together."

It is so sad when some things can't be figured out, especially when there's all that potential for true and meaningful happiness. I'm sure your H has lots of really good qualities so I'm sorry it's come to this. A happy and bright future awaits you though, only most likely not how you imagined...

<small>[ April 19, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: litchfield ]</small>

Hi Litchfield - many thanks for your words. Yes, it's not quite as planned. But I know there wasn't much else to do. And apart from the sadness, there is of course the feeling that I have of being trapped in a situation I don't want to be in, plus the underlying thing of just KNOWING that H won't come back. One day I do hope to find happiness again. And yes, he does have many good qualities.

Kily, it is sometimes quite strange how situations mirror each other, and ours seems to be doing that at the moment. Yes, I think that is what is it - a mask. It's a good way to describe it. Moving forward, huuum. That's hard isn't it? It's the "out of sight out of mind". When I didn't see him January through March, it was so much easier. No e-mails, no meetings. Now, because we have had to start communicating again, it feels that things have slowed for me in terms of personal recovery. Every communication feels like another kick in the gut and it stops the move forward. I think I have to accept that until this is all sorted (the money, the divorce), that it will just be incredibly painful at times. I will have my good days and my days like today when it seems so helpless and futile. I'm sure that will continue on even after things are organised, but if I don't have to communicate with H, I think it will start to become easier.

But as I said earlier, I wonder if this would be so painful if he wasn't with OW? One to ponder eh?

CM - I always have plenty of coffee in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa in London:
<strong>H would be liable for DV costs, I said "Oh no, don't do that". This apparently is just the way it works over here, the one that files claims the costs back. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it's the same everywhere. My lawyer requested that H pay the costs too. My thinking, is that the more you ask for, the more there is to "work" with. After all, this is just a big bartering game; poker game perhaps? And it's a matter of putting out all the chips on the table (and calling bluffs?).

Granted, when my H did his "response", he has requested that "I" be the one to cover costs, for the "troubles" I'm causing him by filing this through the courts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My H didn't contest the D. I'm hoping that means that he can pay for it too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's an additional $280 on everything else. So I can cover the cost if need be... but why should I if I don't have to? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

Hi Karen

You are right it is a rather nasty game of poker and the stakes, well they're so high, human lives.

The funny thing was, that night I went to see H, I completely disregarded all information given to me and what friends had said about "start low" I went in very very high, but then H treated me so badly and shot himself in the foot. Because I became scared that he was going to try and take me to the cleaners, I got legal advice which actually said "Hey, you are being way way too generous". Now of course, all he wants is to be "fair" and I am the one trying to be difficult.

I really don't want anything of his, but the more I think about it the more I come to realise that a) he choose to end this M and go off with someone else b) the amount he has contributed to this M financially is nominal in comparison to me (the first 2 years I supported him when he went to college, just used to give him cash as he had none, and this carried on until he finally cleared his debt on his return from Germany) c) we don't have kids to be concerned about in relation to settlements and d) why shouldn't I now protect myself and take what is fair?

To be honest, he could be here at home working on things and has decided not to. Why should I still try and support him either fianncially or emotionally. It appears to not be what he wants.

Hey ho, we'll see what he has to say today. Well, just had a mail saying he was sorry for making a quip about my earnings, and I'm right he'll get the information I need - blimey, glad I sent a reasonable response, rather than the Lisa Angry response I first planned!!!

Lisa

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Well, I've just been out with my 2 SDs. Actually, not entirely true, we had a girly night in with pizza and soaps on TV!! My eldest SD hadn't realised that we were meant to be doing something tonight (youngest forget to tell her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), but even though she had plans, she swapped them to spend time with me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Youngest feel asleep on the sofa after food, but eldest and I had a good chin wag about her forthcoming round the world tour, got the atlas out, found some phone numbers for her etc. I was really touched that she choose to come to me, even more so because....

When I first arrived, they were talking about Dad "Dad was in such a bad mood yesterday" "Yeah, he doesn't hardly even talk." "Yeah, we went out last week and he hardly said a word, that's why I didn't go out with him last night" (ESD)
"Perhaps his girlfriend dumped him" (YSD has a wicked sense of humour, much laughter at this point". Lisa "Have you met her yet" "NO!!!!"
"I don't think that will be on, don't want to" (YSD). They then laughingly went on to tell me that they were thinking of winding him up and buying flowers for her on Mothers day and giving them to H "For our third mummmy" !!!!!!

OK, now the girls are 18 and 14 and old enough to make their own choices (the younger one is particularly mature), but what I found interesting about this is

1) Clearly H is not a happy camper, and yesterday we were in the middle of all this communication about settlements etc.
2) No way will the girls entertain Shiney Head in their lives
3) How sad for H that his behaviour is pushing the girls away from him - ESD didn't want to go out with him tonight, but changed her plans to spend time with me tonight. YSD doesn't want to go away with him next week because "It's too long"

I know I shouldn't have asked the question about whether they had met her, but we didn't talk about him again really - I don't fish for information generally, but the whole exchange interested me.

Why is H putting himself through all this?

Lisa

Hi Lisa,

It's hard to let go of someone that we love - have loved.

There are many reasons but one of them is that it is hard to believe they could give us up for someone else. Another is that we seem to leave part of us there with them.

It is always best ( and makes us happier) to find our best option, and go with that. You seem to be doing that, but .......... lets see, time and patience? Was that it?

I can't see any holes in the decision you have made to seek D. Don't be afraid to move on, you will heal in time. Lisa has too much going for her to hurt forever. I think she should relax and enjoy life a little more right now.

There are still flowers to smell, places to visit, friends to meet, and others you can help.
Time passes so quickly, don't let life get away from you.

SS

Lisa,

You asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is H putting himself through all this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because he has not been able to handle all that has happened to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Lisa,

Thanks for your post on my thread....I am feeling pretty good about my recent moves, but scared nonetheless. I am amazed at how ok I do feel. I am remembering bits of myself, long buried, that are: resillient, independant, optimistic and FUN!

I want to BE that person more more more!

Anyways, about you, I have a question: does part of you enjoy being with your step-daughters because being with them makes you feel a bit closer to H? Do you look forwards to gleaning bits of info about him from them? Does part of you hope to "send a message" to him, through them? etc etc etc....

I ask because you do not mention any of that aspect of things, and if I were you...boy I would be doing that...right or wrong....

If you are not...it must be tempting...good on ya if you are not.

Lisa: you know my story, do you think I am rushing into a combination plan a/b thing? does it make sense??? sorry don't mean to threadjack...

E

Hi All

And thanks for the messages. I have been away for a few days at Easter and am just back. I went to visit a cycle friend "up North" and his wife. It was really great to get away and do something different without too much lingering on my current situation. All the painful memories of "this time last year" do invade my thoughts from time to time.

Eleanor, you asked whether I deliberately try and find information out. Truthfully no, (except whether they had met Shiney Head). The girls usually want to tell me a few things about Dad to start with and then it passes and we move on to other things. They were both very ready to talk about his "moods" and I realise that they need to talk with me about some of these things rather than their Mum. I don't know, but I sense that they still think I can put things right for him and therefore, for them with their R with him. Maybe this is too complex, but they always used to turn to me if things were "difficult" or needed approaching with their Dad - ESD always used to ask me to tell her Dad things on her behalf. I will stop by on your thread soon, but glad to hear you sounding strong and positive.

JL - is there anything I can do differently? Should I try and resume some sort of contact? The thought of this is painful to me, because he is so mean when we are in touch I just find it more damaging to me, and probably to him too.

SS - It really sometimes still doesn't feel like the right decision, but I do hear you loud and clear. T&P will help me through this. You are right too - life is too short. I sometimes feel that life has already passed me by in this past year and that only I can change to stop it from flying on by in future months and years. I am lucky in many many ways.

Not much else is new, but I have an interview on Wednesday for some regular freelance work which would be very useful for me. Not only would I get out and interact with people, I would get some regular income, which is currently much needed.

I hope everyone had a good Easter.

Lisa

HI Lisa,
I don't have any wisdom to add, but know that I'm thinking of you and hoping you feel stronger with each day. I wish I could offer you wisdom, but I can't think of anything right now.

You've been a wonderful help to me, thanks.

Wishing you well from a blustery part of the USA,
H_P