Had to call WH.
He refused to answer friends message.
I needed to know when he was coming etc.
I kept it short and to the point.
He sounded "very" upbeat, with "OK", answers and said goodbye before I had finished asking what I needed to ask.
It is apparant that he is refusing to use friend as go-between.
I don't want to talk to him!
Just today's short phone call, left me crying!
It's definately better, w/no contact.
He'll be here tomorrow.
I hope I don't see him when he drops off kids.

He refused to answer friends message.
Your h's problem.

I needed to know when he was coming etc.
Why? Have a time set up and wait 30 minutes. If he is no-show then go on about your business. You don't have to schedule your life around his showing up or not.

It is apparant that he is refusing to use friend as go-between.
This is your h's problem, not yours.

Chris,
You don't understand.
I work during the day.
I need to let day care know when they can expect WH to pick up D.
12 yr.old S will be home waiting.
I'm trying to let WH know that if he plans to visit with kids, then he:
-needs to make arrangements with ME through friend, not with the children, they don't know my plans or often their own scheduled things.
-I want to know when he will be around my home when I am not there! One of the messages Friend left, was that I did not want him in MY home!
-He's driving 2.5 hrs to come here, if the kids expect him, I want to know that he IS coming.
WH needs to know that things aren't as easy as they once were-HIS CHOICE!!
HE can't just come and go when it's convenient for HIM!
He is going to have to accept that friend is the go-between, we have children and finances to communicate over!
I did NOT like having to call him and would rather not have even the "minimum" contact suggest by MB when there are children involved!
He is not going to make this easy by not responding to Friends phone calls when I need to communicate, which believe me, I will do only when I have to.
This was the 1st time in a week and a half and I wouldn't of had to if he wasn't expected to visit.

I need to let day care know when they can expect WH to pick up D.
He doesn’t let you or friend know anything, so how are you gonna tell the daycare anything?

I'm trying to let WH know that if he plans to visit with kids, then he:
-needs to make arrangements with ME through friend, not with the children, they don't know my plans or often their own scheduled things.
And if he doesn’t make arrangements or changes things and doesn’t show up?

I want to know when he will be around my home when I am not there!
Change the locks and don’t let him in the house. He can wait somewhere with your child until you get home.

-He's driving 2.5 hrs to come here, if the kids expect him, I want to know that he IS coming.
And if he doesn’t tell you, what are you gonna do?

WH needs to know that things aren't as easy as they once were-HIS CHOICE!!
HE can't just come and go when it's convenient for HIM!
Sounds like he is doing it now. He shows up whenever, goes into your house whenever.

He is going to have to accept that friend is the go-between
That is what I told you previously. He hasn’t accepted it and you called him.

we have children and finances to communicate over!
Only if he chooses to communicate at all about it.

He is not going to make this easy by not responding to Friends phone calls when I need to communicate
This is why you need to set a time for him to pick up/drop off/visit and then YOU stick to it. Don’t call him or hassle him about it. After he drives 2.5 hours, is late and you aren’t there, he will think twice about being late.

I need to let day care know when they can expect WH to pick up D.
He doesn’t let you or friend know anything, so how are you gonna tell the daycare anything?

He did tell me, when I called him!

I'm trying to let WH know that if he plans to visit with kids, then he:
-needs to make arrangements with ME through friend, not with the children, they don't know my plans or often their own scheduled things.

And if he doesn’t make arrangements or changes things and doesn’t show up?

Obviously, out of my hands in that case! But he did make arrangements w/child! I'm not living my life with him making plans for our schedule through my kids! How will I know to "wait 30 minutes" and then go on with our life if he doesn't show, if I don't know 30 minutes from what?

I want to know when he will be around my home when I am not there!
Change the locks and don’t let him in the house. He can wait somewhere with your child until you get home.

The whole point was to avoid him putting our S on the spot by wanting to come in. I will not be there! S should not have to confront him. I wanted it clear that I did not want him in the house! Obviously, I have no way to enforce it, however, he still needs to hear it, or I'd get, "well, I didn't know".
Locks-if I had even $10 to spend on locks, I'd have fresh fruit for my kids to eat!! Not a priority right now!

-He's driving 2.5 hrs to come here, if the kids expect him, I want to know that he IS coming.
And if he doesn’t tell you, what are you gonna do?

Nothing, obviously, what's your point?

WH needs to know that things aren't as easy as they once were-HIS CHOICE!!
HE can't just come and go when it's convenient for HIM!
Sounds like he is doing it now. He shows up whenever, goes into your house whenever.

THis is the first visit since Plan B. My point is not to be a [censored] head while in Plan B. I'm not going to put up even more stumbling blocks for my kids to see their Dad, even though he is being a jerk! I have never said he couldn't come into the house before now!

He is going to have to accept that friend is the go-between
That is what I told you previously. He hasn’t accepted it and you called him.

Your point? I would rather not call him. I see here that most Plan B'ers w/children, limit calls to discuss children & finances. How is that different for me?

we have children and finances to communicate over!
Only if he chooses to communicate at all about it.

This has been "about him" for 6 months now! Why Should that continue? I'm sure he'd prefer to not discuss finances or children!! Well guess what! These things have not gone away!!

He is not going to make this easy by not responding to Friends phone calls when I need to communicate
This is why you need to set a time for him to pick up/drop off/visit and then YOU stick to it. Don’t call him or hassle him about it. After he drives 2.5 hours, is late and you aren’t there, he will think twice about being late.

All along you say, he chooses not to, or comes and goes as he pleases, why would you think that he would do what I plan? And I don't call or hassle him about it! That's the part of Plan B that I need! And remember I'm not there-I'm at work!!!
Again, my point to Plan B is not to be antagonistic, B@tch woman!! Why would I WANT him to drive all that way and hope he's 5 min. late so I can leave and piss him off.

I know you are trying to get me to think through why I called him. I think that is clear.
Plans are not made through the kids!
I want times!
Clear message: Not to go into house!
Finances: I need $$ when he comes and my check stubs that he has from bankruptcy meeting, so I can apply for f@##kin food stamps tomorrow!!

I'm wasn't worked up enough before Chris, but I am now, thanks!

I know you are trying to get me to think through why I called him. I think that is clear.
Not my point at all. I was trying to get you to think of what you need to do because he is irresponsible. Don't get yourself in a tizzy and let all your plans fall through because he fails to do show up or does not call. Make plans, let him know what they are. If he fails to call or show up, you have to do what you need to. Pick up/drop off kids, whatever. It sucks that he should be doing his part and he isn't.

I want times!
I WANT TO WIN THE LOTTERY!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Is it gonna happen? Probably not, but I don't wait around for it to happen.

Clear message: Not to go into house!
Give VERY SIMPLE and VERY CLEAR messages like this.

How will I know to "wait 30 minutes" and then go on with our life if he doesn't show, if I don't know 30 minutes from what?
If he hasn't called your friend then obviously he has't made plans. Let him know that (only) telling your kids is NOT accetable.

Again, my point to Plan B is not to be antagonistic, B@tch woman!!
Plan B is to deal with him as little as possible. But by setting your life around his (possible) schedule, he is still in charge of what you do and when you do it.

Why would I WANT him to drive all that way and hope he's 5 min. late so I can leave and piss him off
So the reason he would get mad is because he's late? And you are responsible for his lateness because?

Give it a reasonable amount of time, not necessarily 5 minutes. But don't wait around for hours.

I'm wasn't worked up enough before Chris, but I am now, thanks!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i'm sorry...

<small>[ June 26, 2003, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Learnin:

Just dropped in to let you know that you are not alone. I understand exactly how you are feeling. This is AWFUL for us. We do not deserve it!!! Let's just make sure we keep on putting one foot in front of the other, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.

WH visited with kids, sweat his you know what off in this heat playing Basketball w/S then went to playground and out to eat.
Sorry you had to cram it all in on the hottest day of the year!! And then drive home 2.5 hrs w/no air conditioning!!!
He'll miss S's championship Baseball game tomorrow night!
HE dropped off the kids while I was home and he didn't come in. He said goodbye at the door, left the carseat on the step and left. I never saw him but I did have my ears perked to hear him.
He didn't leave me any $$. I'm broke.
I know he's paying what he can for bills but I still can't help feel that some $$ is still being spent on things that are foolish and selfish!
I know I'm better off in Plan B, but I can't help but think that this means the end for us.

Learnin:

I often think PLAN B means the end,too. But, I keep remembering what my IC told me yesterday and what is said here. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THAT WE ARE LIKELY TO GET BACK TOGETHER. If we tolerate their A behavior, they will go on with it forever. Plus, we really don't want anybody that doesn't want us. I just keep telling myself to be patient and something will happen one way or another. I'm the one with the strategy. I'm waiting for him to make the next move. He will. Your WS will make a move, too. Let's just try to wait. I know that the Lord has promised something good in store for me. Hopefully, it's my WH but maybe not.

HEY, just wanted to let you know I am still reading and know you are going through hell , but are handling yourself so well ((((((HUGS))))))

YES the day to day life keeps you moving and you are responsable and are there for your children , this all helps ..

THIS next is JMVHO ,,, PLAN B does feel like the end sometomes , in a sense a waiting game .

AGAIN JMVHO ,, but PLAN B does something for the BS that the WS has not gone through yet cause they are in FOG .

IT allows you to greive ,, follow me here ,, BEFORE MB when I asked my ws to leave , I was much like you we talked some and LB alot .
THEN I started N/C and yes VERY HARD with kids .. AND $$ involved .. I did have that MIN . contact that some talk about here because of that .

SO anyway while I was going through that , H seemed fine at times like he enjoyed the N/C with me , it relived his presure of me asking are you coming back ?? can we work on this?? and any LB that would happen ..

In this time I grieved ,, I cried more for awile ,, then it got less .. Then I started going out then I would get depressed then stay home always feeling like 3rd wheel .. WELL soon got passed that ..

ANYWAY I feel N/C helped me be strong enough to face the end of my M if it would have happened ,

In turn WS came back . BUT my point is all the fear that starts with PLAN B is normal and I think very helpful to your PERSONAL RECOVERY .

THAT is the time where I also relized I did not want the M that we where having It was not the way I wanted to live so I was able to see the things I really didn't like about my WS and the things I could change as well ..

My list was not that long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> for me to change But the things he needed to work on was pretty big and it had nothing to do with A .. So then I became even stronger .

CAUSE I figured that EVEN if he doesn't come back I now know what I am looking for in a PARTNER ..

I don't know if any of this makes sence to you or is helpfull , but don't fight off any feelings you have it is ok to be tired or not feel stong one day don't run from fear face it head on ..

BE YOU if you are comfortable with who you are then you will always be happy and everything will fall into placce ..

AND I understand the cintact with WS for KIDS and $$ if he ignores freind then it does make it tough. THAT is why he will do it so don't be suprised if you need to CONTACT him again ,, but I agree avoid it as much as possiable . DOES he have a computer it would be easier to E-MAIL him . ??

OR maybe you can give him a writen schdule to see kids and mail it to him ,, so he wouldn't be so free to see them when he wants to ..

I made that mistake in the beging of letting him be with his kids whenever it was in HIS SCHEDULE then I found out that that had to do with it being convenent for OW ..

SO I made the days and times and if he wasn't coming he would call some times at last minute and I would get nuts , but then I learned to say ok so see them on the next schduled day .. It would piss him off cause then he wasn't seeing them enough . So he learned that if he didn't stick to it he would miss his kids ..

ok I am rambling ,, be well you are doing great !!

So much for abiding by my Plan B wishes!
WH called last night:"Do you want to talk to me or should I call "friend"?"
Me: "I prefer you call "friend."
WH: (very quickly & angry)"Well, I have no money, I can't pay your bills, I've called my brother to see if he can take a loan out for me. But I guess I'll call "friend"." Hangs up.

Of course, he doesn't call friend, what's the point now, you've already given me your message!!

I didn't sleep all night.

His unemployment is probably running out, he's getting desperate.
I qualified for food stamps last week. When does the humiliation end??
At least it helps keep food on the table for the kids. I'm not too proud for that.
I have to imagine that OW is getting fed up. After recieving a copy of my Plan B letter, she knows I'm not giving up easily. She must know that WH is absolutely broke, and her STBX H is playing the $$ card in their D, apparantly hiding $ so that it doesn't look like he makes as much as he's obviously worth! So she must know what it feels like to be in a financially tight spot and now she sees (or does she?) WH putting me & the kids in the same spot.
I'm wondering if his anger and desperation is beginning to LB.
WH has to be feeling left out of our annual, fun, 4th of July trip to his hometown. He knows the kids just love it! Me & the 2 youngest are still going. CousinIL and MIL putting us up, & looking forward to us coming.
I'll only stay 2 days as funds are so low. 2 weeks ago, WH offered to get us some $$ for the trip. Guess that's out of the question now!!
He'll miss cutie pie 4 yr.old in the doll carriage parade (she won 1st place last year!), and running foot races down main st. 12 yr. old is considering running his 1st 7K road race while we are there. A huge source of pride for WH, as all his friends run it, and now he'll miss that too! It's got to be killing him, he was always such a good provider and now it's come to this!
Will he ever be able to pull himself up and turn this around?
I'm tired today, and not very hopefull.

Friend just called.
WH just called her.
He resents having to discuss finances with a 3rd party...told her what bills he won't be able to pay...asked if I should be seeing a counselor?(I am) and that he talked to a counselor who said 2 mos. should have been plenty of time for me to grieve!!!! Some counselor!!....she explained how it took her 4 yrs. to get over her D (we lived next door) but how it looked to the outside world that she was doing well...how well me & the kids are doing, it's just communicating with him, that upsets me, reminds me of what I'm losing when it's a good call and gets me upset when it's not....he seemed to understand...he wants the kids for a few days, apparantly he wasn't too thrilled with his 4 hr visit on the hottest day of the year...friend said she'd get back to him on that and said she knew I wouldn't mind except that I don't want them in contact with OW...he also said that he could save me $90 a week daycare if I let him take D with him while he's laid off!!! Friend did tell him that I wouldn't agree to that(no way!) and that the kids need each other right now and I need them...he seemed to understand...FRIEND is great at communicating!!, which is why I chose her!!

OK, so I have to come up with $$ for my car payment, electicic bill and phone. Also, need to get moving on Lawyer, he still sounds like he wants to pull his pension fund as soon as bankruptcy is done.
I hate this!!!

Learnin:

Definitely see the lawyer ASAP to get your hands on that pension fund. You probably can get it now in order to pay your bills. First things first, you've got to take care of yourself and the kids. In their alien minds, they don't really care about us. That's my thinking on this. Deep-down they care but not while they are under the influence. Try to stop thinking about how he might feel about the 4th because we cannot really possibly comprehend that alien way of thinking because it is not rational and not the same as in the past. Saying this to you helps remind me about my WS.

I'm in a pissed off mode right now. I'm sorry. This is new for me. I'm just so tired of this crap as you must be too.

TAKE CARE OF YOU.

Ok, I know that this is probably not very plan Bish of me, but...
I am so sick of creditors calling here, 4 or 5 times per day, credit cards, car loan, telephone...
So I started giving them not only WH's apt. # & cell # but also OW's #!
I figure, if she wants him, she can have him, creditors, debt, the whole package, right? If they are so in love, then what's the problem?
Well, she just called, and threatened me with a restraining order if I gave her # out to one more person!
Gee, she sounded upset!

WH just called my go-between friend.
He was sooo angry!!
But she calmed him down, she is so good at this.
She was able to explain my "momentary lapse of judgement" as a result of my frustration of doing everything, kids, house, working, dealing with creditors, a broken dryer, a husband who she still loves that has left her and the kids. And he is down there doing nothing.
He agreed to call all the creditors tomorrow and give them his tel. #.
Friend felt that he listened and heard her.
WH did say that I should go and get the D.
Friend explained how when she first met WH, he was such a devoted husband and father and how she being freshly divorced was so jealous. She explained that I was always so proud of my family and now I have the humiliation of having to face everyone and say "well I guess it wasn't". And again he is down there with a new life.
Friend explained how, I have held our family for the last 4-5 yrs while he was on the road, and now I say "for what?", I did all that work just to get kicked in the teeth like this.
Friend is so smooth and calm and sensible when she talks. She told WH that any pain I may cause him and OW will never compare to the pain they have caused me and so when things like this happen and the may happen again, then they just need to suck it up and agree that they probably deserve it.
Friend, told WH that no matter what, he had to admit that I was a good wife and mother and that I worked hard for my family. She said that he probably would explain his A as his emotions getting the best of him, he agreed, and she went on to say that sometimes mine got away from me too, like tonight and he should understand that.
Friend told WH that she would talk to me in the morning as she would not disturb me tonight, I was tired from only getting one hours sleep last night and that I have to get up in the morning to work and do the hard work all over again!
I hope WH has a lot to think about tonight.
Oh, and get this, WH told friend that there is a court order barring him from OW's house. He can't be there!!! OW's H must have gotten that to keep WH from their kids!!!
I don't understand why OW would still want to bother w/ WH, he's going bankrupt, he can't be near her kids, it's making her own D a mess, and why would WH put himself in that situation?
It just hurts to know that they would put up with all of this to have each other, yet he would so easily give up me and our kids.
I see another sleepless night ahead of me.

Learnin,

Hang tough...the bottom is falling out on your WH. Unfortunately, it is affecting you also. But, in the end, I think you might find that God will use this to start a new life for BOTH of you. Your WH is being VERY stubborn right now. But he cannot outrun God.

Your Plan B is working. You are getting stronger. His world is falling apart. You are right...the OW is not going to want him in his current state. They are LBing each other constantly now...trust me on that one.

Sit back and enjoy the show right now. The pain level is increasing for him. He knows the way out. If he isnt smart enough to take the way out, then you probably dont want to be with him anyway.

In His arms.

Learnin:

Have we talked about antidepressants so that you can get some sleep??

Mimi,
Hi, I slept much better last night! I usually take tylenol PM and they do the trick for me. The night before I couldn't remember if I had taken them or not, so I didn't want to take 2 more if I had! You know a real, alzheimer moment!
Obviously, I hadn't taken them, thus no sleep!

MM,
I do feel stronger most days, but I want to get to a point where I do not miss WH as much. Will that ever be? I'm sure I rattled their world a bit last night, and I'm not sure if that helps or hurts the A. I have been sitting on an envelope for OW that several interesting posts that I printed up(site info deleted of course), that I really want to send her, but knowing that FOG exists for her, she probably wouldn't read or understand anyways. A lot of it has to do with effect on kids, example she's setting for her own, you know the stuff. I know one of these days, I'm gonna just send it. Any advice on that? I know that it will make both of them angry, but i'm also hoping that even if she reads just a little, that it will stay with her and fester, until she finally realizes...
I just find it so hard to believe that neither one of them has a concience...

WH asked friend,"why can't I just call W?"

She tried to explain intent of my wishes.

But if WH is so sure that he wants out, then why does he care if he can talk to me again. Is it just too inconvienient for him this way or does he really want to comm. w/ me in person for a reason?

I'm feeling so hopeless about the M these days.
I'm just sooo impatient and maybe just too stubborn to give up when maybe I should.

Learnin,

Plan B is tough. You will still have days where you will ache to call or see him. Dont do it. I believe that your Plan B is working.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do feel stronger most days, but I want to get to a point where I do not miss WH as much. Will that ever be?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure...sooner than you think. I too wondered when I would stop hurting. But you know what? Withdrawal for us works the same as withdrawal of the WS for the OP. it will take weeks, even months sometimes, to feel "normal" again. Each day it will get easier, with maybe a few relapses due to triggers. That is why it is important to stick to your guns. If you contact him, or allow him to contact you, you will get your fix and have to start all of this ALL over again! Hang in there. Those of us that have come out the otherside know what you are going through. It WILL get easier for you...not so for your husband!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sure I rattled their world a bit last night, and I'm not sure if that helps or hurts the A. I have been sitting on an envelope for OW that several interesting posts that I printed up(site info deleted of course), that I really want to send her, but knowing that FOG exists for her, she probably wouldn't read or understand anyways. A lot of it has to do with effect on kids, example she's setting for her own, you know the stuff. I know one of these days, I'm gonna just send it. Any advice on that? I know that it will make both of them angry, but i'm also hoping that even if she reads just a little, that it will stay with her and fester, until she finally realizes...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you want to, send it. I did. But just understand, it most likely will not affect OW, at least not until WELL later. So, if you send it, it will only probably help YOU feel better! The flip side to this is that if you send it, you may be sending some of your gameplan to the "enemy." So, not sure you want to do that. I sent my stuff to OM when I was DONe with the marriage and had started initiating the divorce. I didnt care then. So, be careful and understand that sending it will probably NOT make this woman all of a sudden want to be an upstanding moral person. She is proving everyday that she is not that!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just find it so hard to believe that neither one of them has a concience... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And so goes the addiction of adultery. There is no room for a conscience in the fog.

In His arms.