Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. The credit card that they stole I had cancelled earlier in the day yesterday, before the police caught these people with it. I had tried to use it, it was declined (and I NEVER reach my limit), so I called Mastercard to inquire and found out there were thousands of dollars in charges I didn't make. Charge by charge, I told them which ones I'd made in the last few days, and which I hadn't, and they removed all the non-me charges, then cancelled the card and number altogether. That's probably why these people used it to apply for another card (a dept. store card) - beause my MC (Mastercard, not marriage counselling, lol) got declined for them too.

So the card in question is cancelled, and their transactions are covered by insurance (it was a gold card). I just worry if they used it to apply for more than 1 other credit card. That's my only worry.

Jen

You know, there's one thing I never considered. Giving my H a plan B letter could vault him into filing for Dv before me, which could potentially have negative effects (may give him the upper hand). That's what my friend who got divorced a few year ago pointed out to me when I mentioned that I'm thinking of doing a plan B letter. Maybe I should just file for Dv and then give him a plan B letter?

Spacecase, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You're not yet ready for Plan B. When you feel you are Plan Bing FOR YOU (and NOT to get a response from your H), then you'll be ready.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SC! Please explain further what you mean by this. How exactly do I know when I feel I am plan Bing for ME?

Today my principal remarked that he'd noticed that my H was up for a teaching award and asked if I'd been at the school board presentation earlier this week, and I had to say no. I tell you that small exchange just made me want to run and cry. But I had to go to a meeting, so I held it in, but I still had to have a good cry when I got home. I really miss my old life, and being able to be proud of my H for his accomplishments, and not wishing that no one would ask about him anymore. BUT I don't want to be one of three women he uses for emotional support, so I'm stuck.

Jen <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

The biggest barrier to reconcilliation is the fact that I sincerely doubt my H would ever give up his female friends. I can see him saying he wants to reconcile, then bringing them back into the situation. He'd tell me I'm unreasonable and crazy to be jealous, and they got him through the roughest year of his life, and how dare I ask him to end his friendships with them. So why even try?

What/Where is that sample Harely convo that starts with, "Listen buster...."?

Sorry about the pity party, I'm having a tough day.

Jen

Jen;
First about the credit cards; call MC again and let them know your fear that they may have requested other cards with your MC, and what to do about it, who to call. They know; they deal with this every day.

So; how do you Plan B for JB?
It's really quite simple. When you get tired of the pain your H's actions/words cause you, and you decide you will no longer allow him to abuse you because you deserve to be treated with respect. When you do it for YOU, to protect you from those hurtful actions and NOT to try to get a reaction or a change from him. THEN you'll know you're ready. I think you're ready, but YOU have to KNOW you're ready.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What/Where is that sample Harely convo that starts with, "Listen buster...."?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Use this link to get to Coping with Infidelity: Part 4: Overcoming Resentment and scroll down to the section titled Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse. Ironically it's about a woman that had a ONS and her H has been throwing it to her face ten years after it happened. I hope it helps.

SC, indeed, I was planning to call MC back and explain that.

About plan B, I guess I am ALMOST ready. I mean, just about everything I do now is about protecting me from his hurtful actions. When I talk to him, and I haven't done much of that in a while, I am afraid to bring up any topics of interest to me, for fear he tells me bringing them up is selfish, unloving, or just plain not nice on my part.

When I saw him earlier this week, we had almost zero conversation; I got there, and we went to bed, end of story. The only convo we had was he asked if I still had a cold, mostly I think b/c he was worried I'd be keeping him awake coughing. Then when I got up in the morning I thanked him for inviting me over, and kissed him goodbye, I said to him, "Wouldn't it be nice if you had someone to hold like that every night?" and he just didn't respond. I would've had to get into an argument to get an answer out of him. So I guess I am in almost total avoidance of conflict mode. It's all about protecting myself from hurt or pain.

As I type this, I recall all the people here on MB who say don't bring up R talk unless they do. Well that's all fine and dandy IF YOU LIVE WITH your spouse. I don't and the clock is ticking down to the anniversary of d-day, the day we can file for Dv. I am now tempted to march over there tomorrow and demand a R talk, and ask him where he's at and what he wants. Sound wise or foolish?

TMCM - Thanks for the link. I reread it. The only trouble is one year after d-day is no time for me to demand my H never mention my A again, unlike the woman in the example. BTW, I may be losing it, but I fail to see the irony in that sample situation about the woman with the ONS 10 years ago. Please point it out for me.

Jen

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BTW, I may be losing it, but I fail to see the irony in that sample situation about the woman with the ONS 10 years ago. Please point it out for me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While the situation isn't exactly identical, there a couple of similarities:

1. She had a ONS type of A (like you).

2. Her H, despite her remorse, still threw it to her face. (like yours).

I guess the use of the word 'irony' was a poor choice on my part, but there is no denying that the two of you share the above points.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, there's one thing I never considered. Giving my H a plan B letter could vault him into filing for Dv before me, which could potentially have negative effects (may give him the upper hand). That's what my friend who got divorced a few year ago pointed out to me when I mentioned that I'm thinking of doing a plan B letter.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are the circumstances between your situation and your friends identical? If not, then I wouldn't rely on your friends anecdotal experience and instead would contact an attorney to get the facts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I should just file for Dv and then give him a plan B letter?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you do that, he may interpret that you've gone bonkers. Your plan B letter is a love letter to him and filing for dv is practically an 'I don't love you anymore' letter. If your lucky, his only reaction to you implementing such an approach may be a good, hearty belly laugh.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well that's all fine and dandy IF YOU LIVE WITH your spouse. I don't and the clock is ticking down to the anniversary of d-day, the day we can file for Dv. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen,

My comments are to be taken as informational only. I can't recall where you reside, and am a little too onery to search <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Anyway, my comment is in reference to "the day we can file for Dv". What "triggers" that date where you are? Here where I live, the event that starts the clock ticking is the ceasing of SF. Here, you can reside with each other, in the same home, and as long as you refrain from SF the clock starts. However, you can live totally apart, BUT if you engage in SF, the clock resets. So...in essence...IF you want to buy some time, you may want to check on this.

SF where I live is considered "mutual reconciliation" between a H and W for all practical purposes in the eyes of the law.

However, if you don't want to stall it, then disregard all I have said.

HCII

Jen,
Spacey is right. Plan B is for YOU. It is NOT to get your husband to act a certain way, or to get his attention. You MUST get to a point in your growth and strength to let him behave the way HE wants to. He must make his own choices. YOU have to decide what you are willing to live with... willing to take from him. If he chooses to file for D, whether or not you go to Plan B, THAT'S his choice. Yes - you must be willing to accept that if it happens. That's part of being "ready" for Plan B. Jen, what kind of marriage do you have right now?

Plan A lays the foundation for Plan B. It gives YOU the oppurtunity to grow and demonstrate the best Jen there is to the world (to YOU, and to your H). Plan B does not guarantee divorce, NOR reconciliation.

Again, I suggest you continue working on yourself. Make Jen a strong, loving, healthy individual. AND, work on your Plan B letter. A move to Plan B shouldn't be done on an emotional decision. Be ready for it. Think through the possibilities (as you are doing). But focus on YOU.... and NOT on trying to get something from your H.

Hang in there!!! You can do this!

hcii: I live on my own in an apt. Where I live, you are separated once you start sleeping in separate rooms. We did starting with d-day. Then, the law allows you to cohabitate again for up to 90 days without interfering/altering the original separation date. So the fact that I pretty much lived there for a week or two after his dad passed away doesn't even matter.

I do understand though that the fact that my H has had sex with me means that he can no longer file for Dv based on infidelity. In the eyes of the law, having sex with your spouse is considered official forgiveness.

One of the reasons I struggle with going to plan B is I was never really able to do a good plan A, and "demonstrate the best possible Jen to him," because my H shuts me out of his life for the most part and isn't comfortable (willing?) to spend time with me, other than sleepovers. Going out for a walk, for dinner, to a movie, all taboo, no can do for him. But this has been the case since November - and I don't foresee him changing. He's content to spend his social time looking after his mom and helping her out (since my FIL passed away), going drinking with his brothers, and doing social things with one or the other of his female friends. They are "good enough" to even join him when he goes drinking with his brothers. None of this is new. I just don't know what to do.

My choices are:
A) plan A, but I'm stuck seeing him only when he contacts me, and it will likely still just be sleepovers.
B) plan B (tell him to choose to work on this wholeheartedly and spend significant amounts of time together; maybe tell him to ditch his two "b*$ches").
C) file for Dv.

I wish there was another option, but I can't seem to see one. He won't listen to me when I ask him to spend social time with me. He freaks out and says he needs to get over his dad's death first, and that he doesn't spend social time with anyone anyway (a lie), etc., etc.

Today my H is in the paper b/c of a teaching award he's getting. Imagine how awkward it is being asked about this, and not knowing it was there until I was asked. People are asking me if I am looking forward to going to the award ceremony this weekend. I just answered "Oh yeah", but the truth is I am not welcome. He's taking GF#1 (she nominated him for the award), his mom, and one of his brothers. YET ANOTHER chance for him to HURT ME intentionally by excluding me. When will it end? I know, he probably just can't "handle" having me there, but I'm still hurt and angry about it, when I SHOULD be proud of him for getting such an award. I'm full of resentment for GF#1 for nominating him, and getting to go with him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sorry, I needed to vent about that award thing.

Is there a fourth option other than the three listed above that I am not seeing???

Jen

PS: When I say GF#1 and GF#2, they are not women he's sleeping with, they are his "caring, kind and compassionate" female friends/colleagues. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Today my H is in the paper b/c of a teaching award he's getting. Imagine how awkward it is being asked about this, and not knowing it was there until I was asked. People are asking me if I am looking forward to going to the award ceremony this weekend. I just answered "Oh yeah", but the truth is I am not welcome. He's taking GF#1 (she nominated him for the award), his mom, and one of his brothers. YET ANOTHER chance for him to HURT ME intentionally by excluding me. When will it end? I know, he probably just can't "handle" having me there, but I'm still hurt and angry about it, when I SHOULD be proud of him for getting such an award. I'm full of resentment for GF#1 for nominating him, and getting to go with him.

Jen, this is ridiculous!! You deserve more than this!!!

Jen, you said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the reasons I struggle with going to plan B is I was never really able to do a good plan A, and "demonstrate the best possible Jen to him," because my H shuts me out of his life for the most part and isn't comfortable (willing?) to spend time with me, other than sleepovers. Going out for a walk, for dinner, to a movie, all taboo, no can do for him. But this has been the case since November - and I don't foresee him changing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You see you are still focusing on HIM? Most WS's shut the BS out of their lives. You are spending much more time with your H than MANY MB'ers. It's not about HIM. It's not about HIM GETTING anything. It's not about him CHANGING. See?

Plan A is for YOU. I said in my previous post that Plan A is for Jen to grow and demonstrate the best Jen to the WORLD. Are you happy with you? Have your friends and family seen Jen grow stronger? According to your posts, your H has even noticed a different, stronger Jen. Many MB'ers have suggested that his ever-changing abuse and manipulation is a response to YOU changing your dance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> see? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take a deep breath. Hug yourself. We're here for you, and you are a strong, smart lady. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Read this as a refresher, k? Harley's words... on Plan A and Plan B.... http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Pray for patience and clarity. You are getting stronger, and your answers will come.

Faith1

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>

Does anyone here ascribe to the old "alcohol as truth serum" philosophy? I had a few beers after work today with some colleagues. Right now I feel pretty certain that I don't want to be with my H, not unless he can tell me very clearly and very soon that he wants to be with me. I don't long to be with him. I long to find someone who'll treat me well. On the way home, looking at the bright shining sun (the first time it's shined here in over a week, no wonder I was depressed!), I said to myself,"All I want is to know which direction my life is going!" As in, I want to know that I can plan my life as a soon to be divorced single woman, and go out and do whatever I want, whenever I want, with no concern for my H OR I want to know he and I are both going to work wholeheartedly on treating each other well, and becoming a caring and devoted married couple again. One or the other, enough limbo. I can handle either outcome, but just tell me where I am going already!!!!!

But "alcohol as truth serum" got me into bed with his BF twice.....

And "alcohol as truth serum" generally causes my H to call me late at night or want to be with me.....

And as a wise friend to me said today when I told her I felt like going over there this weekend to ask him to tell me what he wants already, he likely KNOWS what he wants, he's just not willing to face it. I have a huge temptation to phone him right now and sweetly congratulate him on his teaching award and ask if he'll be around if I drop by tomorrow afternoon. BUT if I do that, he'll likely run and hide, so better just to show up.

So this is how the strong, confident, 3-drinks-under-her-belt-and-the-sun-is-shining-Jen is feeling right now. JUST TELL ME WHERE I AM GOING IN LIFE. I need to know that to be happy. I need to know what I am working towards. I've had enough limbo. If I upset him on the day he goes to receive his teaching award he will likely call me a selfish b@#$h again, but I've had enough waiting and being patient.

Am I crazy? No, I just have had ENOUGH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thoughts anyone?

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

How 'bout you don't assume he'll brush you off if you call him about his award. I see so much negative thinking in your posts. I'll say it again, I think you are depressed. The most worthless emotion is self pity, it can do absolutely nothing positive for you. It's really hard to get anything positive out something when you're unable to see/feel anything but negative.

How 'bout you call him and congratulate him on his award and tell him how proud you are of him and then invite him to dinner to celebrate. If he brushes off that invitation you don't HAVE to take it PERSONALLY. He doesn't want to go, then he doesn't want to go, his loss. The benefit of this, you've done the loving thing, demonstrated Plan A. You've treated him the way you'd want to be treated. If he can't respond in kind, it's because he has a problem, don't take it to heart and let it become your problem.

Jen,

Both you and I want to know where we're going, where our lives are going.

You know what I'm resorting to?? Directly asking my W... Asking some very tough questions she wants to avoid, no doubt. But she's going to answer them - one way or another. Example from me to her:

"And I don’t want these tough questions to slide from view, so I’ll gingerly repeat ‘em… I think you’ve seen them all before in some form… What’s it going to take for you to apply some action in your life? What's it going to take to translate your “hope” into something real? (It's not hope unless it can happen, and it can't happen while...??) Would *you* be eager marrying *me* if I had a self-admittedly callous attitude, for example? (A related question might be “is it unreasonable for me to set boundaries to protect myself?”) What do you do when the going gets tough?

I have faith in you – that you want what’s best for me in the end… and so, once again, I ask sincerely that you take a fresh look at this and set me free if you have no intent of “being here.” If it’s me who has to be the one yet once again to show the needed courage to @*#% or get off the pot, I will – I just want to do so with all the knowledge I possibly can have. You can help me on that count – please do."

She does not escape responsibility. She gets put on the spot. She has to know later if she runs away, it was her choice. That combined with knowing I did all I could, combined with my having renewed myself is enough... It's enough... It's okay to put a limit to it... It's okay to let go... If he doesn't answer your simple questions, or proves himself less than admirable in his answers - then you deserve better and can end it with a very clear conscience...

My 2 cents

Jen,

I'm formerly DanniC, and I remember you so well! I haven't been here for a while.

It's too much to write but please read my post in Plan A/Plan B and tell me what you think. maybe you're already there, but if you're not, it might put things into perspective (Plan B?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Right now I feel pretty certain that I don't want to be with my H, not unless he can tell me very clearly and very soon that he wants to be with me. I don't long to be with him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You want to put that to the acid test? Go to plan B. If you still feel the same after six months of plan B, then you can say for certain that you don't want to be with him.

6 months of plan B? Why 6 months???? That is so so long. I know I have said it before, but we can get a divorce in June if we want to. Why put my life on hold for 6 more months for Mr. Indecisive? Why is it worth it, and why does he deserve it???

This weekend I have been FULL of resentment and anger towards my H and his girlfriends. If he can go and receive a big teaching award (not some piddly local one either for that matter) and has NO desire to take me with him to the event, when he gets to take 3 people, well, then he obviously hates me and doesn't want to spend the rest of his life with me.

I need him to make an effort. I need him to tell me that he wants this M, that he wants to be with me for the rest of his life, that he wants to treat me like his wife again, and that he is willing to work hard to treat each other well again. The last time I told him that we need to learn to treat each other well again he said, "See? You just don't get it." He got very angry that I said we both needed to make the effort to treat each other well. He thinks he's doing fine, and I need to make all the effort, still.

If he's so content to have nothing to do with me for so bloody long, I feel like it's 90% odds that we will be divorcing. He ain't gonna give up his b#$$hes. He hates people, and I'm not eager to give up all my friends.

How am I ever going to get over all the anger and resentment that I have for him now? I guess he started out as the one with all of the anger and resentment. Now look who has it?

I never went and saw him yesterday. I didn't trust myself not to say something mean about his award and his exclusion of me.

All day, I kept thinking, if GF#2 were ever to phone me again and invite me to do something socially with her, I'd ignore her question and ask her, "Haven't you ever, at some point, at least felt a twinge of guilt that you have taken over my life in every way but sexually?"

I really wish I could do or say something mean to make it clear to her how much she and GF#2 hurt me by their actions, but I know I ought to continue to take the high road, and not say a thing, and be the bigger person. Otherwise the last memory they have of me will be of me being the b@#$h.

I'm not saying I won't do plan B. I may as well give it a shot. Give him a chance. But 6 months???

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not saying I won't do plan B. I may as well give it a shot. Give him a chance. But 6 months???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok then if six months is too long, then how long is your plan B going to be, one month, two?

One or two months of Plan B is liveable. Absolutely.

I just really feel the need to talk to a lawyer and make sure that I won't get screwed over if I let plan B go on for a couple of months and my H files for Dv first. Quite frankly, I don't trust my H very much at all. I plan to go and see a lawyer later this week.

Jen