</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>One or two months of Plan B is liveable. Absolutely.

I just really feel the need to talk to a lawyer and make sure that I won't get screwed over if I let plan B go on for a couple of months and my H files for Dv first. Quite frankly, I don't trust my H very much at all. I plan to go and see a lawyer later this week.

Jen</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep contact an attorney because you both have the house that your H still lives in, and if said house was purchased after you two got married, then it belongs to the two of you.

Let us know what your attorney tells you.

No worries on the house, it is in both of our names. I have it in writing (in our Separation Agreement) that he will pay me half of the accrued equity as well, should we go through with a Dv.

I'll let you folks know what the lawyer says. I won't get to go until Friday, and then I'll be away for the long weekend, but I'll let you know eventually.

Jen

For quite some time now, especially in the last couple of days, I keep going from being very ANGRY at my H and at his GFs, to just feeling completely sad and almost hopeless. I feel like bawling my eyes out again. Are anit-depressants the answer?

Tomorrow all kinds of people at work are likely to ask me how the "gala" my H went to to receive his award went. I think I'm just going to be truthful and blunt and tell them I wasn't invited to go. If they ask more, I will just say, please don't ask me about it any more.

He thinks he corners the market on hurt and pain. Here I go getting mad again.

I am not going to look very nice if I pull all my hair out. I don't seem to have much patience any more. I am not even sure what I'm asking, I guess I'm just venting again.

Jen <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I honestly hope you will consider anti-d's Jen. It could make the difference between saving your marriage or not. My own H was depressed, had he not taken meds for a short time I don't think he would have ever been able to see the positive in anything and I don't think he would have had the energy which he needed to change his outlook to come back and make our marriage whole again. Anti- D's are one of the things that made a huge difference in our recovery, for both of us.

After he reluctantly took them for a week he felt so much better and had such a more positive outlook that he was amazed. He stated that if he had known they would have made such a difference in his mood he would have taken them years ago. However, he always felt he didn't need "drugs', as if it were a sign that something was wrong with him or that he was weak and couldn't conquer his feelings on his own. Well he couldn't change the chemical imbalance, it had gone too far south to fix on his own and praise God he finally became willing to try meds for a while. He didn't have to take them long for (2-3 months) and he was back on track aand able to maintain his positive mood and outlook on his own.

It's worth a try. I'll say that much.

I really think your marriage can be saved. I worry that it won't however because I don't see you seeing anything positive lately. You appear, from your posts to be consumed with resentment that your H won't "snap out of it". If you are ever going to get to a point of having some long heart to heart talks with him to sort all this out, you've got to have a more positive outlook in order for those talks to be productive. You have got to be able to just hear him and refuse to take what he says personally and just let him vent. I know from personal experience that anti-D's will help take the edge off and help you to see things from a different view. Hope you give the idea some real consideration. All the best to you!

JB; Why do you choose misery over happiness? Why do you allow what you feel and what you are to depend on what your H does or says? Where's Jen Brown?

Where does one go to get an AD prescription? GP or psychologist?

SC:
Why do you choose misery over happiness? I don't choose misery, it's just how I feel not knowing where I am going in life.

Why do you allow what you feel and what you are to depend on what your H does or says? Because he is the BS, and I am the FWS, so he has all the power. Also, I know what I want, but he doesn't know what he wants, so again he holds all the power. AND, he's been part of my identity for nearly 13 years, so I guess it's habit. Oh God, I just realized we're nearing our 13th anniversary since we started dating.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Where's Jen Brown? She's here and she's hurting.

Jen

What is happiness? Well, good 'ol Meriam-Webster defines it as:

a : a state of well-being and contentment
or
b : a pleasurable or satisfying experience

I am not satisfied with my life. My definition of success included being happily married. Everything about my life except for my marriage is fine, but my marriage is important to me so I am unhappy.

The only way I can truly be happy again is to know where my life is going and to be able to make plans beyond the next two weeks. (Take notice, I did not say the only way for me to be happy is to be with my H.) Is there some other way out there that I am missing?

Jen

<small>[ May 11, 2003, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>Where does one go to get an AD prescription? GP or psychologist?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Either one

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
SC:
Why do you choose misery over happiness? I don't choose misery, it's just how I feel not knowing where I am going in life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why don't you know? Because the answer depends on what your H does?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Why do you allow what you feel and what you are to depend on what your H does or says? Because he is the BS, and I am the FWS, so he has all the power. Also, I know what I want, but he doesn't know what he wants, so again he holds all the power.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because what you are depends on your H? Because he has "pwer" over who you are and whethere you are happy? Why? Since when are you a slave to him? Since when does another "own" our feelings, happiness, peace?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
AND, he's been part of my identity for nearly 13 years, so I guess it's habit. Oh God, I just realized we're nearing our 13th anniversary since we started dating.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right. It's a habit. A habit you have now made permanent by not breaking it. A habit you have allowed yourself to be enslaved by. That's why it's your choice...because you can change that habit whenever you choose to do so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Where's Jen Brown? She's here and she's hurting.

Jen</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd say she's not here yet. She's living in a cage of her own making, and she's given the key to that cage to her H. And although he doesn't even want that key, she doesn't have the courage to take it back, open the cage, and let herself out. Take back the key, Jen. You are free, you are worthy, you are love, you are woman; G-d's expression of love on earth. And slavery was abolished here a very long time ago, even the slavery that we create for ourselves.

<small>[ May 11, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you allow what you feel and what you are to depend on what your H does or says? Because he is the BS, and I am the FWS</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is only partly true, but your H has been the WS, with his EA's with those two women, long before you had your two drunken ONS with his BF. The difference is that while you have accepted you made a terrible choice in having a PA, he is still denying vehemently that he also made a terrible choice in having two EA's. I know this is piss poor comfort for you Jen, but IT IS the truth nonetheless, and nothing he says or does can change it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs AFTER THE AFFAIR HAS ENDED."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your plan A has failed because you have been unsuccesful in getting him to end his EA's with OW#1 & OW#2 AND because you have been meeting his EN of SF and conversation, when it should ONLY be done AFTER he has agreed to end his A's.

Jen,
Check your email!
SPACECASE:
Why do you allow what you feel and what you are to depend on what your H does or says? Because he is the BS, and I am the FWS, so he has all the power. Also, I know what I want, but he doesn't know what he wants, so again he holds all the power.
Thanks for reminding ME, the BS, that I do have control of my own life. I have known that many times, and then sometimes I get sucked in, like MOTHER's DAY, into having a pity party for me and into letting bad thoughts enter into my head about how ex-WH has made me so unhappy bc he is having OC when he wasn't ready to have children and here I am, not a mother because of all this. Well you know, I can either choose to continue to dwell in that and get up to my eyeballs in sadness and hurt, or I can move on with the faith that God has a better plan for me.
JEN, the BS does not have ALL the power. Trust me. I have seen it. Sometimes the BS thinks the WS has all the power. See, you are a WS (although TMCM is right, so is your H) wanting to do ANYTHING to help the relationship, and I am the BS wanting to do ANYTHING to help the relationship. Neither one of us are winning. You know why? Because we only have power over ourselves. How exhausted I know we BOTH are, because both of us are trying to do the impossible- make someone else act a different way. It isn't going to happen.....the sooner WE accept it, the sooner we can start to heal. Yes, I can pray for my ex-WH and yes I can hope the best for him and yes I can hope that he will take steps not to ruin his life further- but I can't make him do any of it. He has to want to.....and so does your H. So go relax....here is a challenge for BOTH of us...try to not worry, maybe just this week even, as a baby step, don't think about anything concerning your H. Don't think about the divorce and how you HAVE to do something quick, or how to reconcile, or what to write or say, don't fill his SF need....and when I say don't think about it- I mean of course you will think, it is our nature- but once you start thinking of it - focus on something else. Do something for yourself, concentrate on yourself, figure out who you are.....I think Spacecase is right....I think you still aren't "here". Find you. I bet you would like you if you would get to know you.

As I said to my friend just an hour ago, why does it sometimes take me a few days of emotional turmoil (anger, hurt, sadness, resentment, all in a continuous cycle) to finally wake up and remember NOT TO WORRY ABOUT THINGS I CAN'T CHANGE, and just worry about myself??

Now, at 12:30 am, I realize I can only control myself, and that realistically my H doesn't have all the power.

Thanks SC and TMCM and adgirl. I needed to read your posts before bed tonight so I can sleep with a clear head.

I can either choose to focus on my H, and as you say, put myself in a cage and give him a key, or I can just live my life for me, and if he chooses to ask if he can be in my life again, then I'll consider it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Neither one of us are winning. You know why? Because we only have power over ourselves. How exhausted I know we BOTH are, because both of us are trying to do the impossible- make someone else act a different way. It isn't going to happen.....the sooner WE accept it, the sooner we can start to heal. Yes, I can pray for my ex-WH and yes I can hope the best for him and yes I can hope that he will take steps not to ruin his life further- but I can't make him do any of it. He has to want to.....and so does your H. So go relax....here is a challenge for BOTH of us...try to not worry, maybe just this week even, as a baby step, don't think about anything concerning your H. Don't think about the divorce and how you HAVE to do something quick, or how to reconcile, or what to write or say, don't fill his SF need....and when I say don't think about it- I mean of course you will think, it is our nature- but once you start thinking of it - focus on something else. Do something for yourself, concentrate on yourself, figure out who you are.....I think Spacecase is right....I think you still aren't "here". Find you. I bet you would like you if you would get to know you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to think on this for a while. I know I've seen glimpses of myself, Jen, just Jen, and really liked her. I let my H's stupid teaching award send me over a cliff into an abyss where I could only imagine complete happiness including him. That's not the only path to happiness, that may not even be a path to happiness. I know I have to be happy with myself before I can be of any use in any relationship. I just lose sight of it sometimes. I got FIXATED on my H again this weekend.

I still plan to make an appt. with a lawyer or two for Friday. I have some time off, and it's convenient. I don't however, plan to spend days writing a plan B letter. I don't want to focus that much on my H. At least right now I don't. Right now, I feel like he needs to pursue me, and pursue me the right way, or I'll be gone eventually.

As I saw I wrote in my journal about a week ago, why can't I always have this much clarity of thought? Why do I have to let my emotions take me over? Will ADs help me to keep my clarity?

Thanks again guys, I needed your posts tonight!

Jen

Jen, if you were single and you met a man that was almost the same as your H, would you seriously consider having a relationship with him? My point in asking you this question is to make you realize that (to paraphrase JL):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "you are in love with an illusion. You love the person you THINK, BELIEVE, HOPE your H is. Yet, you know that what you THINK. BELIEVE, HOPE is isn't reality."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Until your H shows signs that he truly wants to rebuild the M (ending his EA's and committing to an MB oriented marital recovery plan), the above is and will continue to be, your reality.

Yay Jen! I'm so glad to see you feeling better! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes - anti-D's will help the emotional roller coaster. Also, if PMS has anything to do with it, just learn and beware so it doesn't knock you off balance each time.

Good for you, JB!

Here's a little something to help keep you going:
Learn to Live

All my love,
SC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>As I said to my friend just an hour ago, why does it sometimes take me a few days of emotional turmoil (anger, hurt, sadness, resentment, all in a continuous cycle) to finally wake up and remember NOT TO WORRY ABOUT THINGS I CAN'T CHANGE, and just worry about myself??

Jen</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because you aren't fully healed yet and because you are hurting and because you aren't putting enough focus on yourself. I am talking to myself as much as I am to you, because I do this to myself a lot, although it is becoming more sporadic.

I think TMCM, by quoting JL has it right on the money for me:
you are in love with an illusion. You love the person you THINK, BELIEVE, HOPE your H is. Yet, you know that what you THINK. BELIEVE, HOPE
isn't reality.

I think I am pretty competitive and aggressive. I also watched my parents get divorced and saw how it has affected their lives. I didn't want to be this statistic. I didn't want to "fail". So I just kept (keep?) pushing and pushing, hoping for something different to happen, hoping for a different turnout. With God ALL things are possible, but for now, I need to get in reality. I do sometimes wonder what I am fighting for. I think sometimes it IS an illusion. If I think really hard about my situation, at times I realize this, and realize that I probably think something is there that just isn't. I think sometimes we concentrate on trying to meet someone's needs after a crisis like this- and that is good to a point- until you lose yourself, or until you keep doing it and then getting let down- or until you are disappointed because all you get is scraps in return- then it becomes emotionally disastrous.
I honestly don't think my ex-WH "gets it" and I am not sure if he will anytime soon.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "you are in love with an illusion. You love the person you THINK, BELIEVE, HOPE your H is. Yet, you know that what you THINK. BELIEVE, HOPE is isn't reality."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YUP! That's it in a nutshell.

If I went out on a couple of dates with my H, and had just met him, would I continue dating him? Highly unlikely.

I made appts. with two lawyers for Friday.

I went to try and register my car today. H never bothered to give me the registration when it came in the mail months ago. Luckily I took a look at the expired tags on my lic. plate. I found out I have to see H and get him to sign the car over to me b/c we registered it in his name last year. I can even remember him saying, "If you don't come along to register it, and something happens, it can cause problems to have it in my name only...." I don't remember why I didn't go with him, but now he gets to say "I told you so." If he does, I will just ignore him. I called his cell phone and the house at 5:30pm,it's 8:30 now, where the heck is he? I want some of my things from the house - I left my rollerblades and a suitcase there that will now be useful. I wish he'd hurry up and call back.

Today all I can think about is the fact that I don't want to be with the alien that's invaded my H's body. I'd rather get a divorce. I'd rather start fresh, even if it means being known as a "divorcée". I'm a happier person when I live my life for me and not in fear of him.

I tell you, I'm tempted to just go over there at like 11pm when I know he'll be home, even if he doesn't call. But if my car's been unregistered for months, what's one more day.....

Many times today, I caught myself calling myself "stupid" or "dumb" or "sloppy" etc., things he would've called me, and I've stopped myself. I don't have to treat myself poorly! As I've told my students on SO many occasions, if you don't believe in yourself, no one will believe in you.

Oh gee, what did that banner on Survivor say, before it got burned? "Believe in yourself!" LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen

I tell you, I'm tempted to just go over there at like 11pm when I know he'll be home, even if he doesn't call. But if my car's been unregistered for months, what's one more day.....

I agree......what's one more day? I think you might get sucked in again if you show up there. And you sound strong right now.

It's better to show up there at supper time tomorrow I figure. The later it is, the greater the chance he's had something to drink. If he's not going to answer my calls tomorrow (am I nice or am I nice, I'm still treating him like I would like to be treated, calling first), I guess I'll start considering just showing up there, or worst case scenario, checking for him at his favorite bar or his mom's house.

Yup, I am feeling strong today. I don't want to let him mess with that.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, guess what, he showed up here with the registration all signed off and ready to go. Gave it to me and left pretty much right away. Called me when he got home to tell me he thought I must've had a man here b/c it took me a minute to get to the door. Really, I had to throw some pants on! (It's hot here today so I was hanging out, literally, lol, in my t-shirt and undies!) I tried to be lighthearted and asked him "So how's the award winning guy doing?" and he said he had to go (sounded like the other line) and so I said, okay then, bye, and I hung up. No additional calls either!

Odd, but simple, and a solution to the registration deal, which is good.

I bet he's shocked I didn't plead with him to stay, or try to keep him on the phone. Too bad so sad!

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That's the spirit Jen. Don't let his BS ruin your mood.