well another update.

Overall things quite positive I feel.

thursday night WW was going out with her mother. She asked if she needed to get a sitter so I said no. She left at about 6:30pm. At 2am she still wasn't home, so I figured that it was yet another of those nights where she had her 'justification' for going out initially and then went on from there to meet OM. I was feeling a bit pissed off so I sent text messages to WW and to her mother. WW rang shortly afterwards, about 2:30 am to say she was on her way home and a little about her night. She didn't mention and I didn't ask about whether she had met OM. She arrived home at 3am and stayed up for a bit.

The next morning, Friday, my BIL rang me (WW's mother is staying with them) to let me know what had transpired. Apparently WW and her mother had a big row (WW had told me this much) and WW left her sisters house at 10:30pm. MIL was quite concerned when I sent her the message at 2am and woke up BIL and SIL. I contacted MIL later that morning, about 10:30am and said that I might call out to see her, as WW obviously didn't want her near our house. I duly did this and spent a few hours with MIL. I was pleasantly surprised, as I had felt there was some 'closing of ranks', but it appears not really. WW was really pissed off with me for calling out to see her mother.

Talked to WW a few times on the phone during the day. As I arrived home I noticed she had put her car outside the gates of the house (her usual pattern when she is going out, so that my car doesn't block her). I rang her from the car to see what was up and she confirmed that she was going out. I asked her if she had a sitter and she said no. I told her to call me when she had and I could come home, otherwise I was staying out. She blew a few gaskets over the next few hours, calling me every name under the sun.

Things had cooled down a little by Saturday morning, at which stage she told me that she intended to go to visit a friend of her in hospital (about 250 miles away). I was happy enough that this was genuine so I had no objections, even helped her get ready for the trip. For some reason I found the goodbye very hard, and was a little emotional. WW gave me a hug before going. Within 10 minutes she had called and apologised for what she had said the previous night on the phone. Since then she has probably phoned 15 or so times - all very amicable and almost like the 'old her'. Most of the time there was no 'excuse' for the call, just to chat and say hello and see how we were doing. e.g. ringing tonight just to say goodnight.

I really do feel like I am on the right track now, and several little moments gave me encouragement. In particular I know I still hold so much love for her, that I am confident that WHEN her turnaround comes I will have the strength and will to work on us.

S.

Salerio,

I wanted you to know I keep up with your story. Sometimes, I don't know how you keep it together. I'm glad that you're standing firm on the babysitter issue. I am interested to see if she'll get off this fence once you go to Plan B.....which is when now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

thanks Starfish

sometimes I don't know I hold it together either, but I guess that applies to all BS's to some degree.

Full plan B will be after the separation is complete - probably 2-3 months I guess, but I intend standing firm on the babysitting issue as that seems to be producing results.

S.

Salerio,

Just a quick question. What would happen if you asked her to move out?

I did ask her to move out. She did initially (this was in the imediate aftermath of D-Day), but then came back. She refuses to go now, and she knows that I can't make her go.

not much to tell, but here it is.

Sunday night she was supposed to come home but decided to stay on another night. No big deal for me, she was due back early on Monday. Monday was like the bad old days again. Her cell-phone switched off all the time, no communication. Eventually a text message teling me she was staying another day and "just couldn't talk to me" that day.
She eventually arrived back late last night. I imagine that OM went to meet her on Monday and that is why she stayed the extra night(s) - which would fit in with her communication patterns too. Now that she knows that I am standing firm on the babysitting issue, I guess that she will be looking to 'take advantage' of any 'legitimate' outing to try and add on a rendevous with F*&kface.

I didn't create any scene last night, no LB-ing and things were fairly amicable then and this morning.

well hard to believe almost another week has gone by. This day last week was our wedding anniversary - which might explain the communication blackout and the "can't talk to you today" message last week from WW. I must admit, that the day just passed me by - although I did remember it a week or so before, I didn't think about it again till my BIL mentioned it to me today.

Last Wednesday and Thursday nights I went out, so WW had to stay in to mind our D. Friday she went out to 'visit her mother'. She did indeed do this, but as is usual used it as an excuse to go out with OM afterwards. I suspected that she might do this, but was just too tired on Friday to create a scene. I didn't have confirmation of this till yesterday morning, so decided not to raise the issue. Last night was a repeat, confirmed to me by BIL this morning who told me she left their house at 7pm yesterday - she arrived home at 1:30 am.

I think I will have to be more ruthless now with the babysitting issue, and now that her mother has returned home, she will have one less legitimate excuse.

Oh yes, tomorrow is WW's birthday - don't know yet what to get her. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

S.

<small>[ August 11, 2003, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Salerio ]</small>

Salerio:

I don't know whether you find this to be helpful or not. I just want to let you know that this stuff with WSes is almost scripted. Your WW's pattern is almost exactly like my WH's. It's amazing!

Your PLAN A has led her to fence-sitting. She wants both of you. So, there's, unfortunately, the need for PLAN B. The only hope would be for him to goof up in some way. However, that is not likely to happen until he feels more comfortable without you in the picture.

I know how you feel. You can't believe that this is happening to you.

Take Care. How in the world do we do this? We are truly the strong ones. I think many spouses just give up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yes, tomorrow is WW's birthday - don't know yet what to get her. Any thoughts would be appreciated.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here in the States we have some specialty stores that sell humorous items. If you have similar stores over where you live, you might want to give her a bottle of 'bulls**t' pills. Of course you wouldn't give her such a gift, but it would sure be a hoot to see her face when she looked at them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

thanks guys

did well on the present actually, bought a nice top - my 9 year old fashion adviser approves - and WW liked it too.

Ah yes, power shopping Man-style - rush in, like it, size it, buy it, 2 mins total <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Salerio,

I want to give you a little bit of a nudge here again. Plan A is supposed to be a time of confrontation (tell her how her actions make you feel) and exposure (tell her family about how she uses them for excuses.) The babysitting thing is just something she's learning to manipulate. She is treating you horribly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

thanks Starfish

I have actually been doing this with her family, which has caused a little tension I think.

Its funny also, my sister who would be our principal sister told WW (her own decision - I didn't talk to her about this at all) that she wouldn't sit if WW was going out with OM!
Apparently the reaction was interesting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Salerio,

I know you are worried about the legal ramifications of leaving home...thus you are stuck in limbo while she rubs this A in your face. I have an idea. Why not protect yourself legally by hiring a private detective? She's so predictable and cavalier that it shouldn't be difficult or expensive. Get photos.....then tell her it's time for her to move out if she is going to continue this affair.

legally that sort of 'evidence' wouldn't really help me much I'm afraid. Practically, I think it might just mean that OM spends time in my/our home, which I just can't bear the thought of to be honest.

well, another update as it has been a few days without one.

Last Friday started out quite pleasant. We were sitting around watching TV together. At about 9pm, WW said she was going to the shop and asked if I, or our D, wanted anything. 10 minutes later she phones to say that she is meeting a friend (named a female friend of ours). Arrived home 1 am. I was still up and made a few remarks, but nothing too LB-ing.

Saturday afternoon she went out for a bit - wanted D to go with her, but D wanted to stay home so she went on her own. Was due back at 6:30 as I was going out that night, but arrived at 8. I was not happy and just left without really saying much to her at all. When I arrived home I just went straight to bed.

Next day (Sunday) I was out for much of the afternoon. A friend of ours (more of hers) rang at about 6. This person is separated and had heard that there were some issues in our marriage but wasn't aware of any of the substance. Not sure what WW told him, but she talked for quite a while. Came to me afterwards and said that we needed to talk. We started to talk a little but it was mainly fog-talk and bringing up the past (selectively!). We agreed to talk on Monday evening. WW said she wanted to 'go for a walk' and asked me to move my car so she could hers out. I replied that if she wanted to take the car when she went out that she could organise a sitter and refused to move my car. 10 minutes later she left on foot 'for a walk'. This was about 8pm. At 11:30pm I get a text message saying she is ok, if I am worried about her, that she has gone into town for a drink. She arrived home at 1am.

Monday night, we didn't end up talking at all. At first she 'was tired' and wanted to leave it to later. then when it was later she was too tired and wanted to go to bed.

Last night she was in bed when I got home. This morning we talked briefly and both got emotional. She hugged me and told me she loved me and always would, but couldn't go on as we were. I reminded her that she wanted the separation rather than working on the M. She once again tried to convince me that OM was periphery to the whole thing (Can you say fog!)
I think she is getting scared now by the reality of what separation will mean for her. She is invited to her sisters for dinner tonight, but I have told her that unless she stays over, then she can get a babysitter - I have been bitten too many times on this one.

S.

Salerio:

I'm so sad for you. How do we put up with this stuff?

Your WW sounds just like my WH did when he was full-blown into his affair. It was like he could not get enough of her now that I think of it. It's like a drinking binge. That's what I think she's scared about. I think she knows that what she is doing is wrong but she is out of control and does not know how to stop it. Unfortunately, she will probably need to go out there and be totally with him, the infamous PLAN B.

Same fog talk as my WH-he tried to say it was not about the OP. That's just defensiveness. She's not wanting to accept the blame for how awful she is treating you and her children. As we all know, we can't really work on our relationships until the OP is GONE.

Take Care, my Friend!!!

Salerio..

I am concerned about how much of your existense and relationship focus right now is power-struggling over baby-sitting??
...

I think you need to make arrangements to sell the house...and plan to move with daughter somewhere...

no way in hell would I let someone who goes out for walks till 1:00 am...and all her other constant..."have to go out" crap have to see an OM have primary contact with my child...\

I would put these steps in motion..regardless of her response...
I would make it clear that non of this is a threat to make her do anything...but is the reality of you no longer choosing to be part of her pain and chaos...

She really does want you there so she can do anything she wants ....

And in the interem...the only thing you two are doing is watching TV together...and then power-struggling over who is babysitting...

focus is off in the ditch and feeds in too how horrible she has it at home...

Time to quit feeding her anything..
Get the plan B letter together..
get the house on the market
consider moving you and daughter in with family till you get something more permanent...

time for action...
Let her live with herself and her actions and choices and their consequances...

ARK

Selling the house really caused significant changes in my situation for both me and my WS. IT showed that I meant business. It really signifies A NEW LIFE for me. He can join me in my life or stay in his mess (which I learned about the condo).

I think ARK's idea is worth serious consideration.

Thanks for the advice and support guys

I suppose I may give a slightly misleading impression here. I am doing a lot of other things in my life besides dwelling on this issue (the babysitting) all the time.

I understand the advice in terms of the house, and agree with the concept. However the reality on the ground is different - as the house is jointly owned, I cannot put it up for sale without her permission. She won't agree to this until the separation is organised, which will be some weeks yet.

the babysitting issue is an 'avenue of pressure' as it were that I can control, and it is, I believe, paying dividends. She is feeling that strain and pressure and that is probably impacting on her relationship with OM. She is also visibly scared of losing me, and her current life(style). I'm sure that like most cases it will take plan B to move things forward to a conclusion and as the title of the thread indicates, the momentum of plan B is building.

Overall I'm not too unhappy with the way things are moving (taking the whole Affair mess as a given <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ), So I hope the tone of my posts isn't too misleading - I just try and summarise the important points, and maybe need to focus on reporting the positives a little more.

S.

Salerio,
I've been reading your thread for some time now and I TRUELY don't know how you put up with this. I think you need to seperate yourself from you WW.

She's hurting you and your daughter. You need to protect yourself and your daughter.

I think you really need to go into a Plan B soon. Nothing has changed for the past couple of months and she hasn't shown that she wants to work on the marriage.

You have to give her a dose of reality! What life is like with out you in it. Show her what it would be like with out you in it. Maybe then the fog will clear.

But as of now, the fog is hasn't lifted and doesn't seem like it will if you continue this way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

JMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />