Jen,

I cannot help but think that this is the very reason that people encouraged you to go to Plan B. I can remember a few of the posters telling you that they did not think that you were anywhere near ready for Plan D (divorce). I know that you got so tired of people telling you to Plan B..you posted a couple of times about that. But, to go all the way to filing for divorce? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I have to admit that I was a little taken aback by that move when you had not even gone the PlanB route. PlanB would have been more appropriate...imvho. It would have also helped you maintain your own love for him with setting boundaries that he had to respect in order to be with you. See how PlanB would have been better.

The beginning of this post he was doing an about face when you were not taking his calls and no longer being available to him. His desperation was causing you to wish that you hadn't filed.

I know, it is a little late for me to bringing this out now. I do not think that you can go back and do a PlanB now...but the more seasoned posters here would be able to clue you in. I just felt that I needed to point out that many people on here did encourage the PlanB and citing you as NOT ready to file.

Just adding my 2 cents...and no pie in the face!

committed

Hi Jen,

I have to go to work today but wanted to let you know I saw your post. Don't get so down on yourself. How did the long talk go overall?

The marriage busting going on here with some posters is really getting disgusting.

Hang in there hon, it's not over yet.

Jen:

I don't think your H ever "woke up" like many BSs do on D-day. This is in large part due 2 the fact that your A and the circumstances of his "discovery" of it are so unusual. I do think that he may have been starting 2 wake up this week, when he showed some genuine signs of wanting 2 try - he just has a lot 2 learn about how 2 go about trying.

Your filing isn't the end. Him getting the papers isn't the end, either. But they may just have been the wakeup call he didn't get on D-day. I sure hope so.

♥2long

Jen,

Do not beat yourself up. I did the same exact thing. Go back and read my threads from September 2002 on. I filed three times...and one time it was served to her. At the time, it was a HUGE LB. she was upset that I had filed, and VERY upset at what I was asking for (full custody of the kids, child support, etc). But guess what? In the end, it all actually was worked by God in my favor.

Of course, Plan B would have been preferable. But, at least now, your husband knows that he cannot continue on as he has, no matter what you did to him before with the adultery. He will now realize that there is a limit to his abuse...and Jen...it has been abuse. If he loves you and wants this marriage, then stand up like a man and fight for it. If what you have done is too much for him, then like a man, he has to tell you and allow both of you to move on. To sit in limbo and to continue to hold both of you in this mess is nothing short of abuse. it is time it stops. And I think now he has gotten that message.

Where to go now? Well, he will be angry for awhile, no matter what you do. But I think you need to plant some seeds here that will grow as he sits down and goes through this. Write him a letter. Explain that you cannot continue to live this way Reiterate that you are sorrowful for your affair and the pain that it has caused. Tell him that even today, even with you filing for divorce, you still pray that your marriage and relationship will be saved. Tell him that you had no idea that he was going to try to start making amends now, otherwise you wouldnt have filed. Tell him that at this point, it is just paperwork and can be withdrawn (the paperwork is STILL on file at the courthouse in my case, although my attorney just drew up the paperwork to have it rescinded). Tell him how much you love him and that you are ready to give this a chance, if he is finally ready to do so also. And because you are so sure of your love for him and how this marriage will turn out, you are pulling back from the divorce right now. and you will see if he is serious about reconciliation.

Tell him that you are out of time. That if he wants you and this marriage, then it is time to say so and to do something about it. You are stopping the divorce proceedings for a small amount off time (dont tell him how long). There is no need to have your attorney take it out of the courthouse. He can let it remain on file. Just have him take you off the docket..thus putting the proceedings in limbo until you are ready to go forward. In this way, your husband will know that you are serious about your marriage by stopping the proceedings from going forward as you two work out a plan for reconciliation. But he will also know you are serious, as you have left the paperwork on file, that you have had enough of this abuse and are ready to move on if he cannot commit to you and this marriage.

Your husband has been on the fence for a LONG time! While Plan B would have been preferable, you have now fired your big guns. It is too late to go to Plan B. He now knows you are serious. Back off, have your attorney take you off the docket (but leave the paperwork on file...I'll tell you more on why later). write your husband that letter and put the ball in his court. Then, Plan A and wait for a little bit.

Actually, what you have done may have pushed him off the fence. The question now is...which way will he go. He doesnt believe you that you were going to talk about it at dinner. But he will believe you as you SHOW him through actions that you are giving him ONE more chance to commit to this marriage and to try to reconcile.

Then it will be up to him.

In His arms.

Jen,

My advice goes along with MM, 2L, and the rest. DO NOT WITHDRAW THE PETITION FOR DIVORCE. You have no evidence that he will change his treatment of you. Yup, he is hurt. Yup, he is feeling sorry for himself. Yup, he hasn't done or said a thing that would suggest that he wants to work it out.

Girl, until he wakes up,and I don't think he has, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. Go with the data on this, not your feelings. He can manipulate those.

As MM says, you can stop it later IF there really is a change of heart. You had to have one, to start to value your marriage. He will have to have one to value his marriage.

Until then the data says: NOTHING HAS CHANGED. So don't change course yet.

God Bless,

JL

The great JL has spoken!!

Seriously Jen...listen to him Go back and look at his (and others') posts on my threads in October thru January. I got the same advice. And even when I felt like running, I didnt. I didnt back down. While I stopped certain court proceedings from happening (like custody), I left the divorce on file, ready to move forward. When her actions showed that NOTHING HAD CHANGED, I then began to move it forward. Shortly after this, within days of the first court hearing, my wife showed up at my door. SHE WAS NO LONGER ON THE FENCE. Even then, I kept the divorce on file. I just told my attorney to delay the proceedings a little while longer as my wife and I discussed with each other and through counseling, what it might take to reconcile. I gave it two months, althoug I didnt tell her my limit. But, part of that was that she meet my two demands...OM gone and her and I seek counseling. she did that and we spent the next two months working on our plan for reconciliation. And then, April 1st...she was home for good. And guess what?? The paperwork is STILL on file.

So, go back and follow my threads because I made the same "mistakes" you did. But in this case, it may have not been a mistake at all, just like mine turned out to be the thing that pushed my wife off the fence.

Listen, read. DO NOT PANIC! Trust God in this. It will now be in your husband's court. Either way it turns out, you should be EXCITED! Why? Because you are now at the beginning of the end of this mess. One way or another, you are going to get your life back very shortly.

In His arms.

Jen, please PLEASE listen to Mortarman and JL. The deed is already done, you can't go back and decide to do it differently. But you CAN still take a better path from here. Take care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just feel so dumb today. I wish I'd been smarter and made better choices all around.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">chuckling.....Jen, don't we all feel that way sometimes? I know I do.

On the positive side, dumbness isn't fatal and most of us can learn and absorb education.

Now that the papers have been served one of two probable things will occur.

1. The divorce proceeds and you end up divorced.

2. Your husband begins to realize the seriousness of not trying to recover your marriage and that he not only "might" lose you, he will lose you unless the divorce proceedings are stopped.

Yes, the initial reaction will likely be anger. So be it. But one cannot, try as one might, remain angry constantly. At some point the anger runs it's course and you are left tired and trying to figure out what happened. THAT is when the critical time for honest discussion will happen. That is the time to acknowledge that your marriage has experienced a huge trauma and only the two of you can decide to work on the problems or walk away from the problems. You've both been walking away, but now the walk has a destination....reconciliation or divorce. The fork in the path is coming. Your husband does not know what he wants yet, do you? You must know what you want or the discussions will deteriorate into anger again.

But don't take this walk alone. Take Jesus along with you. You still need an "outside" guide to help you both with all the issues...and that includes the issues related to divorce if that is the path that you choose.

If it results in trying the path of reconciliation, then make the first priority for both of you reestablishing a daily walk with Christ. He must be put back in the center and you must both work to obey him and not your everchanging emotions.

God bless, Jen. God is not done with you or your husband yet.

Jen, its at times like this that I wish I could come thru this computer and give you a graet big hug. I wouldn't because that could be the start of an EA. I really hope that you take all the info that you receive from any human being and compare it to GODs word. God had been trying to get your attention for over a year. All he wants is for you to give your TOTAL life to him. it says in the bible not to listen to the counsel of a man from this world. This includes myself and any other person that calls themselves christain. Listen to what god is telling you in his word. It took god putting Jonah in the belly of a big fish; before, Jonah woke up and did what God asked. How big of a valley does he have to put you into before you stop and listen to him? Remember though that even when Jonah was in his deep valley inside the fish GOD WAS IN CONTROL. God still used Jonah to do great things. Your marriage is not over. God is just using marriage troubles to draw you closer to him. When God feels you are ready HE will restore your marriage. All GOD wants you to do is to draw closer to him. Please don't just listen to the counsel of the people on this board. Get your counsel from the mighty counselor. Smiaj

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: SMIAJ ]</small>

SMIAJ,

Just a note. Most of your post here was right on. But your part about not listening to other humans, especially fellow Christians, is way off mark. Many times, it is through our brothers and sisters in Christ that God speaks to us. There are MANY ways God speaks to believers. His Word. Through prayer. Through the Holy Spirit. Through our experiences and trials. And yes, even through burning bushes!! It is our responsibility as a believer to take what we have learned, what we see, what we hear, and take that to the Lord. Can the counsel of another believer be unscriptural? Sure. That is why we take the advice from another believer and filter it through the Word of God and through prayer. And if that counsel passes the test of the Word and of prayer....guess what? That counsel probably came from God Himself, through the Holy Spirit in the person that is counseling you.

Do not short change God. If what I, or anyone else on here has advised is unscriptural, then let it be exposed as such. Then it would be a mistake on our part. But many here, including myself, take our advice to prayer before offering it. Do we know for sure that what we are advising is the perfect wisdom for that person? No. Even if scriptural, it may not be God's will for that person. It is upto JEN to decide, with prayer and study, what God's will is for JEN!! but many times, that will is expressed to us through our fellow believers.

In His arms.

SMIAJ,

Respectfully, I agree with Mortarman. I mean if He can use a donkey to instruct Balaam, He certainly can us His own children. Jen should, as Mortarman so wisely put it, filter it through the Word of God.

BTW, if you don't mind, would you be interested in posting your story on the forum under a new thread? I'm sure many of us here would like to understand more about your experiences. I'm sorry if I missed it. I just don't recall reading it anywhere.

Blessings to you.

S&C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SMIAJ:
<strong>Please don't listen to the counsel of the people on this board. Get your counsel from the mighty counselor. Smiaj</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who do you think you are, speaking for God? I find your particular bent of religion to be warped and distorted - I've seen you try to make her question her own answers to prayers, implying that she had not prayed. I've been through a "friendship" with a warped human/child of God like you - who used God to violate my personal boundaries, and I find your particular pontificating to be incredibly triggering.

STOP this right now. Jen has enough confusion - her husband is having an emotional affair, if not a real physical one himself. His life is full of lies and deceit right now. He treats Jen - who is also a child of God like a prostitute. God doesn't like divorce. Neither does he like His daughters to be abused in this way. So BACK OFF preacher-man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

GRRRRRR.

MORTARMAN, I agree with you totally. The problem that most christains have is that they take what another christain's advice with out comparing it to Gods word and think that just because this person was a christain that it must be what the bible says. What this does is lead many people astray. The reason God placed that verse in the Bible was as a warning not to be led astray but compare all advice given to what Gods word actually says. I have seen many posts here and other places that were givin by people that say they are christains that went totally opposite to what the bible says. Smiaj

Jen,

You just keep fighting the way you feel is best. The way I understand the Harley's principles, the fact that your H is angry is a good thing. that means inside he's still willing to fight for the M. My guess is, he just doesn't understand how to do it or it will really make him go through a substantial change.

Pray for him, your M and keep seeking God. And don't be surprised when God answers.

Your getting good advice here. I think ou can already tell who's giving you solid words of wisdom.

Bless you so very much Jen.

Love in Christ.

S&C

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

Excellent way to explain it Mortarman!

Additionally, I cannot count the number of times God *spoke to me* through someone here--on threads I only lurked but never posted! Good thing too since I lurked for many months before posting and I still mostly lurk threads. Maybe that's why I include a special mention for all the MB Lurkers in my prayers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SMIAJ:
<strong>MORTARMAN, The problem that most christains have is that they take what another christain's advice with out comparing it to Gods word and think that just because this person was a christain that it must be what the bible says. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell me what you do when the Bible contradicts itself?

Hey Jen I must sound like a broken record by now but nothing says once you two are divorced you can't date and even remarry if its in the cards.

To be blunt at the risk of hurting my wife there were times I wish I had divorced then immediately started dating her with the goal of remarrying her. That way perhaps the slate would be clean in our second marriage.

Of course that is not how things work but it would have been easier to just start all over than try and rebuild a badly damaged marriage.

Stay the course that little voice in your head is the one that told you to quit being used and abused. It was the voice that told you one year is enough to see some kind of movement on his part and you saw no movement. It was the same voice when not all emotional that told you a divorce was perhaps the best thing.

Wow, thank-you to everyone for all of your responses, encouragement, advice and prayers.

Please forgive me if I don't take the time right now to directly respond to you all.

I talked to my lawyer, and she assured me everything is now on hold (he won't be served with the papers next week), and nothing has actually been filed. Here, you file a statement of claim for Dv and division of matrimonial property at the same time; thus we needed to agree on the division of property before filing for the Dv. She is also mailing my H a brief letter confirming that proceedings have been halted.

So as I agreed I would last night, I called my H and left him a voicemail at home telling him it was all on hold, how sorry I was that this had to happen, but that I felt like I had no other choice since things hadn't changed in so long, that I loved him and still wanted to work things out if possible, and to try and go and have a nice weekend camping with his brothers. Then I called his cell phone thinking I'd leave the same message there too, but he answered. I told him I'd gotten my lawyer to stop it all, and that I'd talk to him next week, and he said but I thought we'd agreed to have her draw up a separation agreement and I'd pay you $xx,xxx dollars, and we'd file for Dv and end it. Well, that was a possibility that was discussed midway through our conversation last night, but it didn't sound like a final one to me at the time. I told him that. I told him I still loved him and wanted to be married to him if at all possible. I told him to just go have a nice weekend away and think about it and we'd talk next week. He said he feels sick to his stomach today, he is that angry, and he's not going to have a nice weekend, and he's not going to think about it on the weekend, he just wants to stop thinking about it, it makes him feel so sick inside. By the end of the call I told him I'd call him next week to talk, and he begrudgingly agreed to that.

As my lawyer said, we have a few options:
a) go ahead with divorce and me asking him for a chunk more of $$ because it's owed to me; this could include a lengthy process b/c my H said he will just ignore and and all legal documents and requests to prolong things since he never agreed to what I'm asking for in that letter my lawyer sent.
b) write up simple separation agreement with the dollar figure we agreed upon and I sign the house over to him, and we go ahead with divorce
c) write up simple separation agreement with the dollar figure we agreed upon and I sign the house over to him, but we just live apart and don't divorce, maybe reconcile down the road
d) reconcile

Okay, I've got to get back to my work. I'll write more later.

Thanks again everyone, I appreciate your kindness!

Jen

KaylaAndy,

I would like to state first that the Bible does not contradict itself. Not one word. Not one passage. And I would love to discuss this more with you, maybe we can start a new thread where everyone can join in. Right now, this is Jen's thread, so maybe we should stick to the issue at hand.

SMIAJ,
I agree that many take the advice of fellow Christians as gospel. But many also take the Word of God in the Bible out of context in order to prove their own theories and provide an umbrella for their behavior. Shoot, it even says that "All things are lawful" for the believer. So, if we take that out of context, we can say we can commit murder, adultery, etc and not face consequences. Which is not true. it is speaking of our salvation.
Like I said above, this is Jen's thread and maybe we can get KaylaAndy and some others to start a new thread to discuss all of this. But what I think everyone is agreeing here is that Jen needs to take the advice given, the Harley principles, and filter all of it through the Word and through prayer. And then do God's will for Jen Brown!

In His arms.

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Holy Moly, Mother of Cripes!

I guess spiritual atheists don't stand a snowball's chance in the frying pan of Haydes of being listened 2?

At least my first and foremost advice has been and always will be: "Never take advice!"

I trust Jen will make her own right decisions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long