SMIAJ,
'I have researched restore ministries extensively. It gave me the hee bee gee bees because it made it seem like ALL should be done to save a marriage. Nope, not the Christian way to go, I do not believe. Sometimes your marriage dies because one person does not want to work on it. Yes, both people had problems, both people are to blame for the marriage breakdown- but this is where forgiveness and compassion and WORK comes in. IF one person does not work, you cannot continue to be sucked into the madness.
As far as the conditions- My point is, submissiveness is a GODLY mutual act. Her H is not being GODLY. Christ tells us to FLEE from evil and from sin, and that bad company corrupts good character. I simply don't think that her H has the best character right now, and I don't believe that God wants Jen to continue to suffer for a sin that she has long repented of. Her husband is not loving her as Christ loves the church, and while she should not disrespect him, she needs to submit to God instead of to him right now.
God loves us SO much, why would he want his children to continue to be abused? It sounds insane to me.

While this topic is very interesting, wouldn't it be better covered in a new thread or better yet, in Jen's new thread which deals with this same issue you two are debating?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>While this topic is very interesting, wouldn't it be better covered in a new thread or better yet, in Jen's new thread which deals with this same issue you two are debating?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right. Sorry for the hijacking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
It would seem that to do things as God would have me do, I need to be the submissive apologetic wife and take whatever my H is comfortable giving me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's just that being submissive goes against all that I perceive myself to be. Submissive to God, I can live with. But submissive to my H, that's a hurdle, a big one, one I don't know that I can live with, without a huge festering amount of resentment building inside of me, like it did prior to my affair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen,
I want to clarify something since another poster obviously thought that in mentioning the bible study on the issue of submission I was telling you that you need to be submissive. As a Christian woman, who has a marriage where there is mutual submission and submission to the Lord first and foremost on the parts of both my H and I, I found your comments about your view of submission to be as anything but what the bible teaches. It would seem you have not had sound biblical teaching on this very important marital issue and my intent was to direct you to a place where, if you felt you needed it or felt so inclined, could get sound biblical teaching on God's word regarding submission in marriage.

When there is mutual submission in a marriage resentment isn't an issue. God does command husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church. How did Christ love the Church? He DIED for her. My pastor offers strong advise to husbands, that they are to die to their own desires and consider their wives second only to Christ in all things. Again, if and when your H gets to the point of being open to God's instruction to husbands, and he chooses to be obedient you will not have a problem with being submissive. With the notion that we submit to God first as submissive wives we are to stand firm in God's Word when our H's wants and desires stray from the will of God. As submissive wives we are to quietly stand in God's Word so as to be a witness to our husbands, that they may discern what is the will of God and act accordingly. In drawing close to God yourself you have the best chance of your H doing the same. As he sees His Spirit alive in you, he will come face to face with what he needs to do as well. Have faith and trust. You are doing a good job.

Wow. I actually agree with mthrbrd. ME, who usually argues with her. She is totally right on what submission is. Submissiveness is actually a freeing experience- if both partners relationships are right with the Lord. Because submissiveness basically means wanting the best for the other person, caring for the other person and trusting in that person and respecting that person. You can do that easily when the relationship is built on God's foundation (Matthew 7 is a great passage too- building on a strong foundation instead of on sand) because you are both seeking God's will.

Bingo, the Bible tells wifes to submit to thier husbands: this doesn't mean they are to be abused, or to do anything that goes against Gods word. Smiaj

Hi Jen. Just wanted to see how you are doing?

Hi FH. I'm getting by. Thanks for asking.

I've avoided posting because really the only thing I can do right now is pray pray pray, try to have patience, and work hard not to pester my H so he doesn't feel pressured, etc. There isn't much advice to ask for that hasn't been already given a million times.

I'm still in tears almost daily. I got to see my H again yesterday and that helped, but he still can't bring himself to spend more than an hour with me at a time and then run away. I keep praying fervently every day too, for a long list of specific things related to restoring my M. My love for him is very strong right now, and that causes me both pain (because he still doesn't have it in him to really be with me) and the strength to continue to wait for him.

I wish I could go to my H, ask him to do things with me, ask him to maybe take a small trip with me, maybe ask him to attend a wedding with me this upcoming weekend, but I am just so fearful of putting too much pressure on him and driving him away (as he's warned me I probably will), and I'm also so afraid of his rejection, that I just don't ask. I think I have to ask about the wedding though. It's yet another event that simply by attending alone I will be announcing to the world that we're having marital problems. Watching my friend go through all her wedding preparations reminds me of how very happy my H and I were when we went through the same preparations, and makes me long for him even more.

I wish I could get across to my H (I've said it so many times but he doesn't believe it) that the longer we are apart, the harder things get, that we just need to take a leap of faith and be together if that is what we both want. But he's so afraid he'd rather continue to live separate and apart.

It also still really bothers me that he seems to still maintain his friendships with the two female friends, in fact it was eating me up on Friday when I drove past one of them who was en route to his place (I was at my friend's house a few blocks from my H's house when I drove past her). Thoughts of contacting them and telling them flat out how they're interfering in our M come to mind but I dismiss them, knowing I can't control anyone but myself. But that doesn't stop it from hurting that he lets them have so much of his heart, and still keeps me at arm's length.

Shoot, I intended to keep this short, but well, there's my update, long as it is.

I'm surviving, but longing to be with my H. What else is new?

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hey Jen,

Was thinking about you during prayer time. How'z things today?

S&C

Hello S and C,

I am getting by. I'm quietly waiting for my H to make up his mind STILL. I've decided to forget about posting on MB for awhile, and try doing things according to my own instincts. I do still lurk from time to time and read over the Wednesday prayer requests and include them in my praryers. So to everyone thanks for your encouragement, well-meaning words, patience and to some of you for your skills as broken-records. I know I'll likely be back sooner rather than later, but for now I've had enough of this biblical debate about divorce and the supposed resulting adultery.

See y'all,

Jen

<small>[ July 09, 2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Jen,

I understand what you mean. I do want to asure you that you are loved by God, regardless of what you do, what your H thinks, what anyone here at MB thinks. Your relationship with Him is yours and His to develope and cultivate. He will give you an answer or help you go on no matter what decision is made or action taken.

BTW, 20 years ago, I was the OM and my W was the WS (won't go into details here).

Despite that, I want you to know, my W and I will celebrate our 20th Annivesary this Nov. God has blessed us in many ways and will do so in many more ways yet to come.

E-mail me if you want to sandc_mb@hotmail.com

S&C